How odd - UltraFire 16340 protected overheat?

I just put in two charged (but sitting around for 4 days) UltraFire Protected 16340's into a E2e with KL1 head into it. When you do a "blink" test, the light was giving a super low output.

Well, I take the batteries out - and one of them is intensely hot. Hot enough that my index finger is slightly burned.

So, I've got it in a metal baby formula can outside my garage now, and 30 minutes later it's still hot enough to sting. I'm getting this slight smell like I do when I open up one of my SureFire's that has been sitting for about 3 months or more - it's a slightly acrid smell.

I gather this thing's gonna pop. So - what happened? And if it does pop, how big of a boom is it gonna do?

I've had these 16340's for a bit, so they aren't new ones. They are about 1 year old or so.

Thanks,
Steve

Preface this with Get Full Face Mask and gloves. and that sick solvent smell is very toxic.

after it cools down, see if the protection connection band (wire) down the side of the battery inside the insulation has shorted to the battery.
it sounds like you have a short, via the way the protection is connected.
(something AW improved greatly in his cells, making them an even better choice again).

it could pop, but it sounds like a short, Which still COULD pop, you will need about 1cubic foot of containment try a metal garbage can. only because it could "rocket" out of a smaller can.

it COULD also pop when its just severly discharged via this short, after cooldown, it is not likly with li-ion, but dont ever take a risk.

the smell indicates that it also OPENED or vented, probably from the electrolyte gasses (Toxic) heat . still could be a short.
also could be a short from external damage causing an internal short. being already OPEN, it is less likly to "pop", if it goes on fire, that is one of the safety features of a li-ion. but it still could go all violent.

the short COULD have been caused by a device, Viewing the battery SAFELY after its cooled would tell you if the protection shorted, or if you need to find out why the light shorted it.

(as usual just bad guesses from good people)

if it should ever happen again
Hot enough that my index finger is slightly burned. <--- right there, you need to run messing with it DURING a thermal condition on the charger or in a light, puts you in the most danger.

Hehe....I have a face mask and even a couple of Gas Masks....

Anyways - the battery is now cool. There's no voltage coming out, but the battery when put back into the charger really quick to reset the circuit is putting out 3.72 volts now.

I'm thinking I'm going to toss this battery out. The protection strip is fine still.

There's no bubbling of anything. I've marked the unit with a sharpie to denote that it's gone. It's going back into the garage while I go get dinner.

-Steve

VidPro said:

Preface this with Get Full Face Mask and gloves.

after it cools down, see if the protection connection band (wire) down the side of the battery insides the insulation has shorted to the battery.

it sounds like you have a short, via the way the protection is connected.
(something AW improved greatly in his cells, making them an even better choice).

it could pop, but it sounds like a short, Which still COULD pop, you will need about 1cubic foot of containment try a metal garbage can.

it COULD also pop when its just severly discharged via this short, after cooldown, so dont ever take a risk.

the smell indicates that it also OPENED or vented, probably from the electrolyte gasses . still could be a short.

the short COULD have been caused by a device, Viewing the battery SAFELY after its cooled would tell you if the protection shorted, or if you need to find out why the light shorted it.

(as usual just bad guesses from good people)

Click to expand...

when put back into the charger

no no no :thumbsdow

you cant put it back in a charger ever again.
a) its open, so toxic junk is going to come out
b) a BAD li-ion is MORE likly to ketch fire when being charged than shorted
c) if its open electrolyte will dry out
d) if it was still shorted there are a few chargers you could damage
e) its no longer a viable candidate for use.
f) it reached a thermal state that changes it

Well, either way - it's getting tossed. It's back in the can outside.

I'll give it to a Batteries Plus for them to dispose of on Monday.

-Steve

Oh, yeah. This vented battery is physically shorter than the other 16340's I have.

(Edit for clarification) This battery used to fit fine in the 13640 charger. It's now barely able to hit the contacts.

Funny, huh?

-Steve

Beastmaster said:

Oh, yeah. This vented battery is physically shorter than the other 16340's I have.

Funny, huh?

-Steve

Click to expand...

mabey not funny, mabey the final CLUE.
are you sure THAT ONE was actually protected?

"There's no voltage coming out, but the battery when put back into the charger really quick to reset the circuit is putting out 3.72 volts now."
This indicates that it WAS protected, but did not have Proper anode disconnect, par for a cheap cell that shouldnt be used ever. if its open/vented and not disconnected, its the usual cheap (dangerous even) cell.
(Again something that AW improved on his cells.)

if it wasnt a protected cell, then i discard the short theroy, and would go with a reverse charge theory.

mabey it shorted AT the protection, you could see that short, when you decapitate the protection board off the cell item itself. high spring pressure (or a drop) and poor insulation at the PCB for protection.
(Again something that AW improved on his cells.)

lots of batteries you can buy cheap ,have ALL of these short and safety problems, most of the highest end cells NEVER had those problems, something that is not a problem, untill there IS a problem. it takes time for that other country to get the cloning process down , when they dont know why things were that way.

Yes, it's a protected cell. It's got a strip down the side. Yeah, the outer wrapper says so too, but it's got the protection strip circuitry on the side of the unit.

VidPro said:

mabey not funny, mabey the final CLUE.
are you sure THAT ONE was actually protected?
if it wasnt a protected cell, then i discard the short theroy, and would go with a reverse charge theory.

Click to expand...

well thanks for the story. i love a good battery mystery

the ultrafires i have , are sub par in every way, didnt stop me from buying one more, then i tested them, not only were they unsafe, but they had cruddy capacity too.

the shorter ones do have less insulation protection between the PCB and the cell item.
when they put better insulation under the PCB it raises it up a bit.
the thinner around li-ions had poor insulation on the connecting strip, but fit more things.

so i go with the protection board to cell short, that is "my final answer" i already used up my lifeline call

I guess I should have been more detailed.

Before this mishap, all of my UltraFire 16340's were literally the same size in overall height. They all fit snugly in the battery charger.

Now, the one that seemed to overheat is now physically shorter. It fits the 16340 dedicated charger but is no longer snug - it's loose.

Oh, well. This particular battery is vapor now. It's gonna go bye bye on Monday.

Beastmaster said:

Before this mishap, all of my UltraFire 16340's were literally the same size in overall height. They all fit snugly in the battery charger.

.

Click to expand...

after reading it again, i thought that might be what you were saying.

the protection got smooshed? like the plastic lift ring melted down?
or the top caved in at the seal?

check out post 38 https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/115844&highlight=protection&page=2
shows A top seal

like this pic http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/123dura1.jpg
of a duracell PRIMARY 123

and here https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/169200
to see the protection junk dissasembled.

like this pic http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h75/pike444/pila4.jpg
shows a hefty WHITE lift ring on a pila

and this Pic http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h75/pike444/AW-New5.jpg
shows the new AW RED insulator ring thing

but at the bottom of this
picture http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h75/pike444/AW6.jpg
you can see what is par for some cheap stuff, the RED insulation, often foam, paper, or thin cardboard.

you can imagine that some cheap suckers would use meltable things, and some overpriced stuff would use high-temp plastics.

WHY? well to understand how flashlight spring pressure and light drops can effect the stuff.

Beastmaster said:

I guess I should have been more detailed.

Before this mishap, all of my UltraFire 16340's were literally the same size in overall height. They all fit snugly in the battery charger.

Now, the one that seemed to overheat is now physically shorter. It fits the 16340 dedicated charger but is no longer snug - it's loose.

Click to expand...

I believe there may be an ambient pressure within the cell during charging and when the vent blew out or the battery cylinder crimping failed, gas was discharged and the anode is now only hinged by the cylinder cap...but I can't say for sure...

Well, the only signs of any issue are the following:

1) It is physically shorter. I'm not going to even try and use a caliper on it. It's sitting in my side yard in a 1 gallon baby formula metal can.

2) The positive contact is deformed and buckled. If you can imagine a beer can bottom and the way it looks, that's the deformation. I'd hazard a guess that the hot gases did it in.

As soon as daylight hits - I'll take pics.

-Steve

Sorry to hear about this lithium battery failure. Forgive me this pic but I
could'nt resist. Venting with flame! ...quality flashlight still gives light. OK not
really funny.

Here's the pics.

-Steve

mmm, can you post a shot with it beside a normal cell?

I'm a little suspicious about the wide depression between the cylinder and the cap

Sure can. Here's more. You can definitely see the deformation between the bad one (with the red sharpie on it) and the good one from the same order batch that I did when I ordered them.

-Steve

Below - here's a shot of the two side by side. The one marked with the red sharpie is the one that vented. The other one is a good 16340. The bad one is wonky - the good one is really the straight one.




Below - This one is a shot of the two side by side, somewhat from the top.




Below - Next, this one was with a bit more direct flash on it to bring out more detail. Note the height difference and the fact that the white plastic ring is a bit bulged out.



Final pic - now you see them more directly from the top.



The final 2 pics shows a bit more - you can see that the shrink wrap is bulged and thinner. And - the white spacer ring is definitely deformed.

Either way - the bad unit is going to be tossed tomorrow at a local Batteries Plus for disposal.

-Steve

thanks for the pics.
how would the top nipple get crushed so much?

a vent blowout may be sufficient to explain the bulging outer ring but I still don't see how a cell just caves in like that:thinking:

sure reminds me of Chernobyl...where the 500 ton "lid" is just hanging there

VidPro, the nipple gets crushed easily on cr123as also...I've had many cells that, used with the KL4 in the L4...has the bezel end battery dent in

Well, until the day it vented, the positive contact was never crushed. So I'm thinking that the heat plus gas discharge buckled it.

-Steve