Are these"flashlights" really better than candles?

Are these\"flashlights\" really better than candles?

What are the benefits & disadvantages between a 4AA flashlight vs. 2D? If both types are made the same, will one type be brighter than the other or last longer, or is the difference entirely dependent on the design of each flashlight? How about 4AA vs. 3D or 4D?

What about Krypton vs. Xenon bulbs, is one type "supposed" to be better?

n.b. I tested the Xenon bulb from a 4AA Garrity (Stainless Steel) against the "White Star" Krypton bulb from a 3D Maglite. I thought the Xenon would be brighter, but didn't find great differences between the two, except that the Krypton was a bit brighter.

I considered buying the Garrity 4AA over the 3D MagLite, because the Garrity threw a wider beam, and was much lighter and more compact than the 3D Mag, and no less brighter. The package said the stainless steel body was stronger than an aluminum body (obviously a reference to the competition for this model, the MagLite). Within10 minutes of using the Garrity, I dropped the plastic tailcap into the bathroom sink (by a height of about 6"-10"), and it cracked. The MagLite won by default.

My intention with all of this is to fit the single LED bulb in my Dorcy into a (relatively) compact flashlight body that will produce brighter results. So far, the only thing I've tried that was brighter was a 5D MagLite, but it was too heavy and hard on the wrist, and I'm not sure the Dorcy's LED will survive the power of 5D's over the long run, since it was designed for 4AA (so maybe it was brighter simply because I was overdriving it?!).

Re: Are these\"flashlights\" really better than cand

There is no diffrence between AA and D - except for the obvious: D is bigger/heavier and has more capacity. The other things like dimpled reflctor or better (brighter/whiter) bulb are not directly related to battery size. Well, for the specific case 4AA vs. 2D _maybe_ is simpler to make a better bulb for 4AA (you have 2.4 V with rech. 2D, even less with high drain) - but usually is not that much of a problem - maybe if you wanna make a 2D as bright as a Surge.

Simple facts: one AA (NiMh) is 25 g (+-10%); one D is 135-140 g. You can find NiMh AA with 2300 mAh but if you wanna have the same "bang for the weight" with D you wonnt find 12000+ mAh D's (I think...). Also the usual comparation is between 4AA and 3D - like PT40 and Mag 3D. They have comparable output but PT40 is 135 g loaded (my wristwatch is 118 g !) and Mag is 800-900 g. Yes, you would get better runtime from the Mag - but you could also put the "long burn bulb" in the PT40 and get 8 hrs. runtime (and the well known yellowish light). And one set of batteries for PT will be only 100g.

About your Dorcy LED: I think it's a single Nichia, 50-100 mA with something like 6 V isn't it ? In this case you will be able to drive this LED with ANY battery. If we are talking about brightness this is simple - we are talking voltage. 4 cells will be brighter than 3 and less brighter than 5. Yes, 5D is brighter than 4AA - but no brighter than 5AA (is hard to find a 5 AA flashlight, but this is another story). Driving this LED with D's is way overkill, you get something like 100-200 hrs with the original 4AA, there is no reason to carry a 5D for one LED with something like 15 feet throw. Ah, and of course you should try 4 Li AA; better output, lifetime, etc.

Re: Are these\"flashlights\" really better than candles?

Hello fotzepolitic,

Welcome.

There are many issues you have to resolve when deciding which flashlight to purchase. This forum has a very powerful search engine that allows you to review what others have found out. I suggest you check it out.

When I am looking for a light, I first try to figure out how much illumination I need, then I figure out how much weight I am willing to carry, then how I plan to carry it, and finally how much I am willing to spend.

Now for the trade offs. If you want more light, you will either have shorter run time, or heaver weight. A Mag 5D will throw a beam a long way, but is heavy and will not fit into your pocket. A SureFire G2 (using 2 X 123 lithium batteries) will out shine a Mag 2D, is light weight, and will fit into your pocket (but the batteries are a little more expensive than the D cells). A LED light like the ARC AAA (using 1 AAA battery) will fit on your key chain, last 5 hours of good light on one battery, and give you piece of mind because the bulb will not break, but the light output is no way near as bright as the Mag 5D. Some people have been known to carry a 12 volt spotlight with many million (advertised) candlepower and have a sealed lead acid battery in a backpack.

Good luck on you search. Most of the people here end up with many lights because one light does not cover all the bases and they want the best light for each situation.

Tom

Re: Are these

excellent responses!

i will reinforce what silverfox said: you should have a clearly defined goal. ask yourself "what do i need the light to do? what do i really need?"

again, most of us break it down in terms of light output, size, runtime, toughness and expense. you can also throw in factors such as comfort, style, reliability, warranty/support.

i tend to think in terms of "will i REALLY utilize this light? is there something about this light that would make it less/more likely to be used?"

for example: i wanted a nice bright incan for throw, reasonable runtime (2+ hours), but didnt want it to be too expensive or large. i wanted a good beam, inexpensive bats in a small, tough package. i wanted the ability to run lithiums because i live in an area with very cold winters--and some pretty hot summers. these were my clearly defined goals.
what i found was the tec-40. it fills all of the above criteria for me. it even uses inexpensive PR bulbs.

this one light does not fill all of my needs. i REALLY like LEDs, due to their toughness, long runtimes and general close-up usefulness.

the point: you will probably need more than 1 light. in this case, i think in terms of small (keychain size), medium (attitude/minimag size) and large (tec 40/2d mag or bigger). each step up gives more light output and longer runtimes at the expense of greater size.

just for fun, i recently built the "enduro-lux", which uses a single LED, dimmer, and 3 D cells. it was designed specifically to provide long term emergency lighting (boy, does it ever!).

clearly define your goals!

good luck, and have fun!

Bob

Re: Are these

I *have* "clearly defined goals" and I clearly defined my goal at the end of my message! I wasn't looking for advice on which flashlight to buy, I can decide that on my own. In order to help me make my decision, I was looking for information on how the different battery arrangements affect the performance of a given flashlight. As I wrote in my message, I'm looking to know if there is any performance advantage to D vs. AA ALL ELSE BEING EQUAL. The reason I brought it up is because I had read somewhere that D batteries last longer than AA (again, ALL ELSE BEING EQUAL). It wasn't clear to me from the responses here what the consensus is on this.

If a 4D flashlight is not expected to last longer or shine brighter than an equivalent 4AA flashlight with the same type of bulb, and since both types are 1.5v, then why do they make D (or C) size batteries? For people who want more "heft and weight" in their flashlights, toys and gadgets??

Re: Are these

Assuming the batteries are arranged in series (as opposed to parallel) a 4AA configuration will supply more voltage(twice) than a 2 D setup, and will therefore drive a brighter bulb. But since the D's are a bigger "fuel tank" the AA's will not run as long. All of this of course applies to direct drive applications. Voltage regulation and step up electronics allow a wide variety of battery/bulb combinations that can optimize either brightness or runtime.

Your post sounds like brightness and portability are more important to you than runtime. I would determine the maximun voltage that your bulb can tolerate and then find a light with a battery battery configuration that suits it.

If you plan to go with rechargeables beware of low cost D cells. Many have little if any more capacity than high quality AA's

Re: Are these

The 4D _will_ shine longer (and brighter after the first sec/min) than a 4AA flashlight with the same bulb. All else beeing equal (i.e. we are not comparing some very good AA with some very bad D). There is no question about this, and I think there _is_ consensus on this.

[ QUOTE ]
fotzepolitic said:

It wasn't clear to me from the responses here what the consensus is on this.

If a 4D flashlight is not expected to last longer or shine brighter than an equivalent 4AA flashlight with the same type of bulb, and since both types are 1.5v, then why do they make D (or C) size batteries? For people who want more "heft and weight" in their flashlights, toys and gadgets??


[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Are these

Hello fotzepolitic,

OK, let's set the record straight:

As far as Alkaline batteries go, D cells have the most capacity (will last the longest) followed by C, then AA, then AAA, then AAAA, and finally 9V. The 3V lithium 123 battery falls below the AA, but above the AAA. The 3V and 9V batteries are at higher voltage than all of the others which are at 1.5V.

Bulbs and LED's are rated by voltage and current draw (either watts (watts = volts X ampers) or milliampers). There are other terms that relate to the amount of light coming from a bulb or LED, but I am choosing to ignore those for right now.

If you have a LED that is rated at 4.5V and 350 milliamps, and drive it with 6V 350 milliamps, it will be brighter, but it will burn out faster because it is over driven. In this same example, if you get your 6V by using 4 AA batteries and then compare the run time to getting the 6V from 4 D batteries, the D cells will allow the light to burn longer. The same thing hold true for a bulb.

The flashlight manufacturers work at giving us a useable package. You can not put a 3 D cell light in your shirt pocket, but a 3 AAA cell light will fit. Both are running at 4.5V, but the capacity to drive a light source (bulb or LED) is greater with the D cell. If you wanted a run time of 2 hours, the manufacturer could have a brighter bulb in the D cell configuration. Another example is if you put a Mini Mag light bulb in a 2 D Mag Lite, the brightness would be the same as the Mini Mag, but it would last a whole lot longer (but you have to decide which one you would like to carry in your pocket).

Now you may have read about using AA cells in a D cell configuration. Why would someone want to do this? I believe the answer is that they have rechargeable AA batteries and don't care about extra run time. By putting several AA cells in a D cell you get a light that runs at the same voltage, but only lasts about 1/3 as long, but the batteries are rechargeable.

You can also take a 3 D light and put 4 C batteries in it (with a little adjustment). This will give you a brighter light, but the bulb will be overdriven and will burn out faster.

I hope this helps.

Tom

Re: Are these

Thanks to Silverfox and Itsme1234 for your clarifications, and others for your responses. I think I'm set straight on the issue of performance v. battery type. I've understood that physically larger batteries have a greater capacity yield than smaller ones (and can therefore last longer) because they can hold a greater charge. Despite the fact that they have the same voltage rating). But that they don't offer more power than another battery rated at the same voltage (ie. 4D's don't make a bulb shine any brighter than 4AA's, but 5D's will). Feel free to correct me if my conclusion is incorrect.

I've only recently (in the last few days) taken more than a passing interest in flashlights, because that's when I discovered that LED flashlights were now available at my local retailer, and I'm excited about this technology. I just wasn't impressed with the relative brightness of the 6V Nichia in the Dorcy I bought (as far as I know, the ONLY full size LED flashlight available in my city (Montreal)). Which is why I tried marrying the Dorcy's 6v LED to a 5D MagLite. It was a bit of an improvement in overall brightness, and it allowed the tiny center spot of the Dorcy to finally become larger. But I found the heavy 5D Mag unwieldly and unpleasant to carry around for any length of time. I bought a 3D Mag to see if I could still get an improved brightness out of the Dorcy LED in a (little) more compact package, but there was not improvemet in the brightness. The LED in the original 4AA Dorcy might even be slightly brighter than the 3D Mag.

I know there are brighter LED bulbs available online that can go in a Mag, but as a flashlight is not something I use too often, I don't want to spend a fortune on this lighting. $10 CAD for the LED bulb in the Dorcy seems reasonable.

I've considered buying one of the lower-priced models on eBay. I've seen this ad for a 4-LED flashlight a lot. Can anyone say whether it will offer significantly more light than my single LED Dorcy, considering that it is supposed to be a 'hi intensity' white LED, and might be brighter than a cheaper LED in a multiple-LED configuration? :

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3600108252&category=16037

There's also this 6-LED lamp at a very reasonable price:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3600141959&category=2020



In a related question, I'm not too clear on what mAh (milliamps?) are, in regards to battery ratings. I've only recently noticed mAh ratings on NimH rechargeables. Is a higher mAh rating on a rechargeable NimH battery generally mean that it's better than a lower-rated one, or it doesn't work that way?

Re: Are these

[ QUOTE ]
fotzepolitic said:
In a related question, I'm not too clear on what mAh (milliamps?) are, in regards to battery ratings. I've only recently noticed mAh ratings on NimH rechargeables. Is a higher mAh rating on a rechargeable NimH battery generally mean that it's better than a lower-rated one, or it doesn't work that way?

[/ QUOTE ]

Try this, I think after a quick look through chapter 1 it will all start to make sense: http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/electricCircuits/DC/index.html