Novatac 120p or 120t or what?

So...i think i want a novatac. 120p or 120t and why? And are there still problems with flickering, etc? I do not want a problematic light. :shakeheadFor example, if i order one from lighthound, am i going to be disapointed?

I just joined the Novatac ownership club yesterday.

Here's my take on it.

1) If you need infinite light levels, then the 120P is for you. I've programmed mine to have Momentary Maximum (simple momentary), maximum/15 lumens/0.3 lumens - which is nowhere near the default.

2) I get flickering ONLY on the most absolute lowest minimum out there - which is 0.08 lumens. Is that a useful light setting? For me, no. In fact, that's pretty useless to me. 0.17 is really the lowest that I can tolerate and have it still be useful.

So - if you're really intending to have light that low - then you might have to shop a bit. I freely admit that I have flicker, and it doesn't bother me.

-Steve

I think the flickering on the 120P occurs when you use the lowest mode ie 0.08 lumens. Other then that the only time it flickers is when there is a loose or dirty connection.
Of course being so complicated in design with its UI, there's more chance of it stuffing up then say a normal 1 or 2 mode light.
If you get a perfect working light - ul ask yourself why u didn't get it earlier. Best 1xcr123 light IMO period.

Agreed. Between this and my TW4 clone (KL4 head/VG 1x123 body), I don't need any other EDC's other than these.

-Steve

skyline_man said:

I think the flickering on the 120P occurs when you use the lowest mode ie 0.08 lumens. Other then that the only time it flickers is when there is a loose or dirty connection.
Of course being so complicated in design with its UI, there's more chance of it stuffing up then say a normal 1 or 2 mode light.
If you get a perfect working light - ul ask yourself why u didn't get it earlier. Best 1xcr123 light IMO period.

Click to expand...

Between the two lights, I know the actual tailcap buttons are different, but is the "switch" the same as far as the clicking mechanism goes?

Same switch "functionality". And you can use a tactical switch on a P series, and a P series flat switch on a T. So they are interchangeable.

-Steve

Howdy Darkspark, and welcome to CPF,
The NovaTac series are very nice lights. I think one of the nicest features of the programmable model is that you can setup the UI (user interface) to work the way YOU want it to.

You see, some folks like their light to come on in the lowest mode first, and some folks like their light to come on in the highest mode, while others would prefer something in the middle. With the 120P model you can choose to have your light come on at ANY level you want....... and you can even have it remember the last mode you were in and come on at that level if you want.

That, combined with the fact that you can set it up so that no matter what level you are currently using, you can have access to the highest level by simply pushing in on the button.... and when you release the button it goes back to your currently selected level. OR, you could program it so that when you press the button it goes directly into tactical strobe.

So, you see, it's the variety of options and possible ways to configure the light to YOUR style of use that is what makes the 120P so intriguing to many of here..... combined of course with it's ability to use RCR123 3.7 volt rechargeable cells and it's rugged and nicely finished case.

Personally, I think the only flicker that is acceptable might be a small momentary flicker when you change between levels, which I've only seen once or twice with my light....... anything else is not something you should expect, even on the lowest levels... which I use regularly on my light.

However, and I've said this many times, I think that when you buy a light with this kind of advanced electronic control that it does open the possibility of having more problems associated with those electronics, but that is a tradeoff I'm willing to accept for the kind of flexibility and control I get in return. Plus I know firsthand that NovaTac customer service is very responsive and that this light has an excellent lifetime warranty against defects.

As far as whether to get the T (tactical) or P (programmable) model, well..... you can program the P model to work exactly like the T model, and you can buy a tactical tail switch as an optional accessory at Lighthound.com...... so for me, I see no reason to buy the tactical model because I like the option of changing the light if I want, and you lose that option with the T model. But, some folks just don't want to fool with the programming, and I understand that, in which case the T model might be the best choice.

Hope that helps. Have fun.

+1 for the 120p with a tactical clickie.

For less money and a real savings: 85p

Less than $100 and an incredible light.

Ken

skyline_man said:

I think the flickering on the 120P occurs when you use the lowest mode ie 0.08 lumens. Other then that the only time it flickers is when there is a loose or dirty connection.

Click to expand...

That may be true of your light, however, that is not true of all NovaTac's. One of mine consistently flickers when switching between primary and secondary. I have the levels adjusted in such a way that it happens less frequently, however, it still does it.

Thanks guys, i really appreciate the info. You know, it's interesting though, it seems as possibly temperamental as these can be that i still see very satisfied owners. Are these lights that good that even if you have to live with these ui imperfections it is still just worth it overall?

Darkspark said:

Thanks guys, i really appreciate the info. You know, it's interesting though, it seems as possibly temperamental as these can be that i still see very satisfied owners. Are these lights that good that even if you have to live with these ui imperfections it is still just worth it overall?

Click to expand...

I'm just sitting here wondering what "imperfections" you are referring to. My 120P has been flawless from day one. I love being able to customize its functionality and it remains my favorite flashlight - period.

If I had to do away with all of my flashlights and keep only one, I would keep the 120P. Enough said.

Definately go with the 120P, you can buy the different tailcap for $20, and if you decided you would have liked the T better, you can set up the P to work exactly as the T, and lock it that way.

My light needed all it's internals tightened up when i first got it (about a minute with some needlenose pliers) and it has been absolutely flawless since.

robo21 said:

I'm just sitting here wondering what "imperfections" you are referring to.

Click to expand...

beastmaster said...

2) I get flickering ONLY on the most absolute lowest minimum out there


derek dean said...

a small momentary flicker when you change between levels, which I've only seen once or twice with my light

Valpo Hawkeye said...

One of mine consistently flickers when switching between primary and secondary


I say...

am I the only one that reads other responses besides my own?

IMO, get the 120P and thats all you'll need for an EDC. Don't go about it the long way by waisting your money getting other single cr123 EDC lights cos you'll eventually end up getting the 120P anyway. And once you have a 120P - you'll never use anything else.
Don't think that $189 is a lot for this light - oh no. $189 for a light that you'll use frequently is absolutely worth it. I can think of many examples where i've blown that amount of money in one night eg, fine dining, going out night clubbing etc..

I'll go with "what?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASrENCIKnzY

LOL ... The "WHAT ~" line has been going around for sometime ... but ... Dang ~ it is funny as heck everytime ...

I'm getting one of these babies too ... I think the 120P is the way to go, as it offers some extreme customisability for those that demands various levels of lights for different purposes ...

jk904jk said:

beastmaster said...

2) I get flickering ONLY on the most absolute lowest minimum out there


derek dean said...

a small momentary flicker when you change between levels, which I've only seen once or twice with my light

Valpo Hawkeye said...

One of mine consistently flickers when switching between primary and secondary


I say...

am I the only one that reads other responses besides my own?

Click to expand...

I didn't mean to imply that I'm ignoring others posts. Only that my 120P has been flawless. I have no flickering issues whatsoever. And flickering during switching sounds like a minor issue anyway. Perhaps the more recent production is not prone to issues or maybe I just got lucky.

Darkspark said:

Thanks guys, i really appreciate the info. You know, it's interesting though, it seems as possibly temperamental as these can be that i still see very satisfied owners. Are these lights that good that even if you have to live with these ui imperfections it is still just worth it overall?

Click to expand...

The UI works as designed. I might have some criticisms with the UI, but since it works as designed, I can't consider them imperfections.

Regarding the flickering.

I have 2 Novatacs and 1 HDS. The Novatacs are programmed with the lowest possible level available. Both the Novatacs flicker. Sometimes they flicker on the lowest level. Sometimes they don't. Sometimes they start out flickering and then they cease to flicker.

The HDS rarely has a little hiccup, a single flicker on the lowest level, very slight.

For me the flicker is no big deal. If it did it on all levels, I'd have a problem with it. It doesn't annoy me. I bought my second Novatac knowing that it might also flicker.

So to answer the question as to if the light is that good and worth it overall: Yes. If the price is right.

For me, a 120P @ $189 is too much. A 120P @ $140 maybe, an 85P @ $99 definitely. The plain and tactical models don't appeal to me.

My $0.02

Let's look at the design itself. I'll compare it to other flashlights that have multi-level beam capabilities.

Novatac vs. SureFire L1 - The L1 uses a tailcap switch mechanism to really do the work of differing beam levels. It's all mechanical. Therefore, there's no programming to adjust the input voltage and modulation of the PWM signal to modify things.

Novatac vs. Fenix T1 - The Fenix T1 uses a twist head setup to change the light levels.

Novatac vs. Other Fenix flashlights - with the exception of the tactical click units, all the others that use a button are reverse click.

With a forward click like the Novatac and the upcoming SureFire E1B, you're likely going to get a flicker because of the switch design itself. So flickering as you do your switching will be normal. That's because you're making contact as you press forward. The mechanisms are a bit more complex too, since contact is fighting spring pressure, not working with it.

A reverse click will shut the light off as you press, then back on when you release, so you will never get a flicker to begin with.

The biggest concern is flickering at lower levels. If I had flickering at 0.33 lumens, I'd be ticked. That would mean that the circuit board is not handling it's PWM properly, along with that the input voltage of the LED is at a limit.

Doing the extreme low level of an LED and getting flickering would be tolerable - that's because the input voltage of the LED is definitely beyond the design limit for that bin. Besides - the extreme low level for me is useless light, not useful light. The setting at 0.33 is the minimum for me to be able to qualify it as useful light.

-Steve

jk904jk said:

I say...

am I the only one that reads other responses besides my own?

Click to expand...

Beastmaster said:

Let's look at the design itself. I'll compare it to other flashlights that have multi-level beam capabilities.

Novatac vs. SureFire L1 - The L1 uses a tailcap switch mechanism to really do the work of differing beam levels. It's all mechanical. Therefore, there's no programming to adjust the input voltage and modulation of the PWM signal to modify things.

Novatac vs. Fenix T1 - The Fenix T1 uses a twist head setup to change the light levels.

Novatac vs. Other Fenix flashlights - with the exception of the tactical click units, all the others that use a button are reverse click.

With a forward click like the Novatac and the upcoming SureFire E1B, you're likely going to get a flicker because of the switch design itself. So flickering as you do your switching will be normal. That's because you're making contact as you press forward. The mechanisms are a bit more complex too, since contact is fighting spring pressure, not working with it.

A reverse click will shut the light off as you press, then back on when you release, so you will never get a flicker to begin with.

The biggest concern is flickering at lower levels. If I had flickering at 0.33 lumens, I'd be ticked. That would mean that the circuit board is not handling it's PWM properly, along with that the input voltage of the LED is at a limit.

Doing the extreme low level of an LED and getting flickering would be tolerable - that's because the input voltage of the LED is definitely beyond the design limit for that bin. Besides - the extreme low level for me is useless light, not useful light. The setting at 0.33 is the minimum for me to be able to qualify it as useful light.

-Steve

Click to expand...

Nice post Steve. I have a question: If the flickering when switching levels is a phenomenon inherent in the design of the switch, then why do I not see any flickering when switching levels? Thanks in advance.

Also, as I indicated above, I get no flickering when I use my 120P on the lowest level which is my primary setting.