200+ lumens on AAA?

Everyone saw the Jetbeam pro-1 with 240 emitter lumens with a single AA. What are your opinions on whether or not companies are gonna start making 200+ lumen AAA lights, AAAs only have less capacity right? so an AAA 200+ lumen R2 should be feasible? granted the runtime may not be fantastic, but who cares if it out outputs the T1, Dereelights, Just about any other CR123a on the market at the moment

i certainly hope they do!

Crenshaw

Crenshaw said:

Everyone saw the Jetbeam pro-1 with 240 emitter lumens with a single AA.

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Maybe in an alternate universe. If you look at the reviews section of CPF, where beamshots are available, I would say the Pro-1 outputs more like 1/2 of their claim.

L0D-CE [Cree P4] on 10440 puts out estimated 158 lm according to one tester, but even that is only for a seconds on a freshly charged battery. Q4 L0D on 10440 might be the closest you can get to 200 for now.

Related question:
Is there a Q5, R2 or Cree LED flashlight that holds four AA or AAA batteries bunched together in a short, compact light? 4 AAs together with a rubber-band around have a nice size diameter and the batteries would be more available.

Even the Nitecore and Jetbeam I Pro seem to be falling short of their stated out put (both maybe more around 150 emitter lumens?) even with 14500's.

With a AAA right now a 10440 is probably the only way we'll approach 200 emitter lumens, but I don't know any lights doing this yet. I think we have to wait for the LED's to get a bit more efficient first, and get the Vf lower on the higher bins. Maybe if we see R5 bins with a low Vf, someone could make a light that drives it hard enough to produce 200 emitter lumens. Even then the runtime will probably be pretty short.

The LOD-CE Q4 on a 10440 sounds like the best bet right now for a lot of output from a AAA light. One poster here mentions 158lm, and I've heard some people tested it even higher. I've only run my LOD-CE Q4 with a 10440 breifly and it is impressive. I'm probably going to try and run with a 10440 more, and if I end up frying the light, there will probably be a newer version coming along that I'd want to upgrade to.

Im gonna get an LODQ4 cos i sold my P4...anyone know the rough output of the V3 KD bucklelight on 10440s?

Crenshaw

the buckle will fry w/ 10440's

It would be a battery Killer

evi1joe said:

Related question:
Is there a Q5, R2 or Cree LED flashlight that holds four AA or AAA batteries bunched together in a short, compact light? 4 AAs together with a rubber-band around have a nice size diameter and the batteries would be more available.

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Yes this is the Elektrolumens "Little Friend" which I think is now out of productions.

Assuming a 100 lumin/watt LED and 85% efficiency, you would have to draw over 2 amps from a NiMh or 700 ma from a Li-ion. I don't believe it is doable with the existing internal resistance of either one. Sure, 200 lumins from a single AAA WILL happen, but not until LED and battery technology both improve. I'd say we will have one in 3 to 5 years.

I've tested a couple of LOD-Q4s, and the brighter of these probably puts out roughly 200 lumens on 10440.

Not that I use it like that. It's a great light on NiMH. But as an indicator of things to come, it certainly is an interesting experiment.

Basically, I don't think dragracing and flashlight design has much in common, so burning up batteries for small gains in output doesn't make much sense to me. I'd keep max current draws at roughly 1C, giving roughly an hour of minimum runtime at a bit less than a Watt to the emitter. The pace of efficiency increases seem to have slowed down again, so goodness knows when we will see the roughly 200 lm/W LEDs that would allow LOD-Q4 on 10440 type output for an hour on AAA. Then again, we may see some improvements in battery capabilities as well.

The LOD-Q4 on NiMH is enough to light up a large hall as it is. For an hour.

EntropyQ3 said:

(...) The LOD-Q4 on NiMH is enough to light up a large hall as it is. For an hour.

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Very much my experience. Safe, simple and plenty bright.

Kees

If A123 Systems made a 10440, you'd have all the voltage and all the current you'd need to crank close to 200 lumens if you could mash the necessary electronics into a LOD size tube. It wouldn't run for very long though.

Yeah, I think we'll see it soon enough.

Assuming a 100 lumin/watt LED and 85% efficiency, you would have to draw over 2 amps from a NiMh or 700 ma from a Li-ion. I don't believe it is doable with the existing internal resistance of either one. Sure, 200 lumins from a single AAA WILL happen, but not until LED and battery technology both improve. I'd say we will have one in 3 to 5 years.

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700mA froma LiIon is not too bad. At 320mAh and a regulated driver like the LF2, that should provide about 15 minutes of runtime. For a "burst mode" that's not bad, especially if there are user selectable much shorter modes that offer longer runtime.

Also, consider for example the new SSC P7 quad die emitter on the horizon. If you were to run that at 700mA, its would be driven at only 1/4th spec. Underdriving LEDs improves efficiency. A 4-die emitter would produce mostly a flood though.

I believe a 200lm 10440 light though will be possible within the year.

evi1joe said:

Related question:
Is there a Q5, R2 or Cree LED flashlight that holds four AA or AAA batteries bunched together in a short, compact light? 4 AAs together with a rubber-band around have a nice size diameter and the batteries would be more available.

Click to expand...

http://elektrolumens.com/LittleFriend/LittleFriend.html
Wayne never updated the page when he switched to SSC-P4 LEDs.

paulr said:

Yes this is the Elektrolumens "Little Friend" which I think is now out of productions.

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4xAA tends to be quite fat. I cannot get my fingers all the way round one but they are a slightly more comfy hold due to the lighter plastic compared to the tank light Little Friend.
http://ledmuseum.home.att.net/turtle.htm

i personally think (and hope) that we will have a 200lumens at least at the emiitter AAA light maybe sometimes from now till this time next year...i really hope so...lol, its just a race for who gets it first. You all probably know who I'd support..

yeah LOD even on AAAs would be bright enough, but i mean, this year its all about 1.5v batteries breaking the 100 lumen barrier....hopefully by this time next year, they will at least be close to the 200 lumen. As long as it had at least a half hour runtime at 200lumens, that would be just sweet. of course it would need a "lower" 100lumen mode for longer runtime...

Crenshaw

I think FLR got an early L0D CE so I assume P3WC bin (65 lm/W).
Measured out front 46 lumens.
R4 bin is 115 lmw.
So you should get 46*115/65=81 lm/w off an AAA.
With an 10440 it should be over 2X of an AAA so 200 lm/w is possible.
OTOH the Vf of an R bin may be low enough to always fry the LED if used with 10440. Or Fenix changes the circuit so you cannot overdrive the LED. Ultrafire has already done that with the WF602C so the light is no brighter visually on 10440 than on AAA.

LEDninja said:

I think FLR got an early L0D CE so I assume P3WC bin (65 lm/W).
Measured out front 46 lumens.
R4 bin is 115 lmw.
So you should get 46*115/65=81 lm/w off an AAA.
With an 10440 it should be over 2X of an AAA so 200 lm/w is possible.
OTOH the Vf of an R bin may be low enough to always fry the LED if used with 10440. Or Fenix changes the circuit so you cannot overdrive the LED. Ultrafire has already done that with the WF602C so the light is no brighter visually on 10440 than on AAA.

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Considering that so many people use the L0D on 10440, Fenix really should modify their circuitry to support it. They should probably introduce a peak current of 600-700mA to spare both the cells and the emitters, neither of which are meant to handle >1A. Low voltage cutoff would also be a must to prevent overdraining cells. I probably won't go back to using a fenix AAA light until they change the following things:

* Much Faster PWM frequency, or filtered output (constant current)
* Regulation and low voltage protection on 10440
* Very low mode, ~1lm or so (if they stick with a 5-mode sequence, I'd suggest very low -> low -> med -> high -> strobe)

Also, I would gladly accept a ~10% hit in efficiency to have a neutral white emitter (3500-5000k range) rather than a cool white. I'm pondering modding my LF2 to use a Neutral white emitter, but unfortunately, I've yet to see any available -- Cool is available in R2 bin, and Warm is available in Q2, but no neutral.