I'm new to Li-ion rechargeables, and I'm running an AW protected 14500 in my DI. I get the low voltage flash at about 3.45 volts by my multimeter. Does that sound about right? I'm going to do some runtime tests, but thought I'd ask those who have used these before. Thanks!
Nitecore DI low voltage question
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Wattnot
Enlightened
At what voltage is the flash supposed to occur? I imagine you are getting the flash, pulling the battery then measuring?
The problem with that is the voltage will drop "under load" (meaning when the light is LIT). Another problem is that a battery will "recover" a little bit after the load is removed, further raising the voltage. You can see this if you run your electric toothbrush or razer down until it is totally dead, then wait a few seconds and try it.
So . . . all of that being said, the voltage is probably under 3 volts (or at whatever voltage the warning triggers) and when you pull and measure, there is no load and it's recovering too, so it's rising to the 3.45 for your measurment.
The problem with that is the voltage will drop "under load" (meaning when the light is LIT). Another problem is that a battery will "recover" a little bit after the load is removed, further raising the voltage. You can see this if you run your electric toothbrush or razer down until it is totally dead, then wait a few seconds and try it.
So . . . all of that being said, the voltage is probably under 3 volts (or at whatever voltage the warning triggers) and when you pull and measure, there is no load and it's recovering too, so it's rising to the 3.45 for your measurment.
nanotech17
Flashlight Enthusiast
Tubor
Enlightened
It's probably a contact problem. Clean all the threads completely (head and tail) and add a contact enhancer like Deoxit gold. And then make sure you turn the head a one half turn rather than just off tightened when you use it. There have been a few people having problems with the low-voltage warning and contact issues, including me. A the end of the day you may have to return it if you can't fix it, or use NiMh. 
It would be nice to have an option of diabling the low-voltage warning as I use protected 14500's anyway.
It would be nice to have an option of diabling the low-voltage warning as I use protected 14500's anyway.I have the exact same problems with Trustfire protected 14500s. The low voltage varning kicks in after about 20mins (far from +60min all the reviewers are getting), and when measuring the cell instantly after pulling it out, it's around 3.78V. When is the low voltage warning supposed to kick in? Around 3.0V?
Just did a runtime test and mine kicked in to the low voltage flash at 3.79 volts. It took 49 minutes running on high to get there with AW protected 14500. So we've got one flash kicking in at 3.78 and one at 3.79 volts.
Anyone else care to run at test and see what they get?
So it seems like the practical runtime for my DI is about 50 minutes on 14500's. Does this seem like a contact issue or can anyone confirm what voltage the DI is supposed to go into protection mode? I'll shoot edge tac an email and see if they can comment.
- Edited to add after letting the light sit for about 10 minutes, I fired it back up and it ran for another 10 minutes until low voltage flash, to bring it up to a runtime of 59 minutes. Pulled the battery and it read 3.74.
Anyone else care to run at test and see what they get?
So it seems like the practical runtime for my DI is about 50 minutes on 14500's. Does this seem like a contact issue or can anyone confirm what voltage the DI is supposed to go into protection mode? I'll shoot edge tac an email and see if they can comment.
- Edited to add after letting the light sit for about 10 minutes, I fired it back up and it ran for another 10 minutes until low voltage flash, to bring it up to a runtime of 59 minutes. Pulled the battery and it read 3.74.
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Lite_me
Flashlight Enthusiast
Well I just ordered a couple of AW protected 14500's (should be here tomorrow) to hopefully get more runtime and the slight increase in brightness. So am I going to end up with less runtime than with my Eneloops?! Looks like I'm going to have to do my own runtime tests cause as indicated here, cutoff voltages with Li-ion seem to vary.
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It might be my cells that are a bit weird. When I did runtime tests with the DI in a glass of water or in the fridge (to prevent overheating) I got around 20minutes of runtime(about 4 times). A couple of minutes ago, I was playing around with it, holding it in the hand the whole time watching a movie, and then the runtime was 50minutes. Either my cells are very sensitive to cold or they need to be broken in (didn't know that you had to break in Li-Ions? :thinking? Still, the low voltage warning is around under 3.80V, which sounds very high to me.
Another question, can the low voltage warning voltage depend on the batteries? Wattnot mentioned that the voltage is lower under load. Maybe bad cells drop more under load than high quality?
Also, the low voltage warning will not come on that early if I run the light on a less bright setting.
And last but not least, my DI is a lot brighter on 14500 over NiMH, allthough my NiMH are not in the highest qualities(no eneloops, or LSD here).
? Still, the low voltage warning is around under 3.80V, which sounds very high to me. Another question, can the low voltage warning voltage depend on the batteries? Wattnot mentioned that the voltage is lower under load. Maybe bad cells drop more under load than high quality?
Also, the low voltage warning will not come on that early if I run the light on a less bright setting.
And last but not least, my DI is a lot brighter on 14500 over NiMH, allthough my NiMH are not in the highest qualities(no eneloops, or LSD here).
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Wattnot
Enlightened
I do not doubt AW's cells are the best! However, it's nothing personal . . . this is a characteristic of the chemistry of these batteries. Heck, it's not just batteries, even your 110v house voltage will drop under load! It's simple electric theory at play. I'm sure better cells won't do it as much as others but I'm only talking in generalities. AW himself will agree with what I'm saying here. Do your own tests on a bench with some kind of load and watch what happens.
Another thing . . . lithium ion batteries aren't that crazy about being cold. Ever notice your cell phone and laptop performace if you leave them in a cold place (like your car, outside in the winter) for a while? This is not to be confused with the CR123 lithiums . . . they have a different chemistry and do much better in the cold. I'm talking about lithium ION batteries. If you get into RC vehicles as a hobby, you'll get to meet lithium polymers. Those like the cold even less and make a lot more fire when you abuse them! Lots of fun videos around of mistakes and experiments with those babies! Be glad you don't have to mess with those!
Another thing . . . lithium ion batteries aren't that crazy about being cold. Ever notice your cell phone and laptop performace if you leave them in a cold place (like your car, outside in the winter) for a while? This is not to be confused with the CR123 lithiums . . . they have a different chemistry and do much better in the cold. I'm talking about lithium ION batteries. If you get into RC vehicles as a hobby, you'll get to meet lithium polymers. Those like the cold even less and make a lot more fire when you abuse them! Lots of fun videos around of mistakes and experiments with those babies! Be glad you don't have to mess with those!
I do not doubt AW's cells are the best! However, it's nothing personal . . . this is a characteristic of the chemistry of these batteries. Heck, it's not just batteries, even your 110v house voltage will drop under load! It's simple electric theory at play. I'm sure better cells won't do it as much as others but I'm only talking in generalities. AW himself will agree with what I'm saying here. Do your own tests on a bench with some kind of load and watch what happens.
Another thing . . . lithium ion batteries aren't that crazy about being cold. Ever notice your cell phone and laptop performace if you leave them in a cold place (like your car, outside in the winter) for a while? This is not to be confused with the CR123 lithiums . . . they have a different chemistry and do much better in the cold. I'm talking about lithium ION batteries. If you get into RC vehicles as a hobby, you'll get to meet lithium polymers. Those like the cold even less and make a lot more fire when you abuse them! Lots of fun videos around of mistakes and experiments with those babies! Be glad you don't have to mess with those!
Ah, thanks for clearing that up. I was under the false impression that li-ion batteries were supposed to not be affected by cold after reading this, but now realised that I missinterpreted the article. Allthough isn't it at least a little bit strange that my cells performs so badly in a glass of water which isnt that cold(roomtemperature)? And yes, I knew the difference between lithium primaries and lithium-ions.
And isn't the low voltage cut out at 3.78V a bit high? Not sure if I'm gonna return the light or not, since it works flawlessly otherwise on NiMH.
Hitthespot
Flashlight Enthusiast
My DI ran for 69 minutes with a end voltage of 3.47v. Room temperature of 71.6 degrees F. Battery used was a Ultrafire (protected) 14500 900mah.
Bill
Bill
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Lite_me
Flashlight Enthusiast
My 2 AW protected 14500's 750mah arrived a few days ago. I checked the low voltage flash on my NDI with them. I didn't check any actual runtimes, cause I ran the batteries as they were when I received them. Both batteries came to me @ 4.00v. I was mostly interested in the cut-off voltage at this time.
The first battery was used for awhile playing around and comparing it to some of my other lights. Probably not more than 10-15 min runtime. That's not really important, but I did keep track of the time it took to go into the flash mode with the remainder of juice it had.
For testing with the first battery, I thought I'd try using a lower output, thinking I might get a truer reading cause there would be less voltage sag due to the higher current draw on high.
I set the output to about 25% or there abouts. With the previous use of the battery and having not topped it off, it went to flashing at around 4hrs. Again, that doesn't really mean much, it's just more info.
I immediately removed the battery to check it and it read 3.25v. This may seem a bit low but so was the load so it makes some sense. After about 30min it recovered to about 3.35v. I then threw it in the Pila IBC charger that arrived yesterday. Nice charger! It charge to 4.20v and after sitting for a day is now at 4.18v. Perfect!
The second battery was used to test with the light on high. When it went to flash and immediately removed and checked, it read 3.47v. After a 30min rest it's up to 3.58v.
It makes sense to me that with a higher load the safety feature is going to kick in sooner. Actually, it likely doesn't. You just get a higher standing voltage once removed from the load/light. In both cases, it appears it may have kicked in at around 3.20v 'ish. You'll get less sag with less load so you'll likely use more juice before cut-off with lower output.
All in all, I'd say the Li-ion protection is working pretty well in my NDI. I usually check my batteries (too) often anyways and top off my Li-ions often. (and my Nimh's too) It would be rare for me to even have the safety feature kick in but glad it's there for those occasions when you might need it.
So when removing the battery immediately that's ...
3.25v under low output (25%) 30min recovery to 3.35v
3.47v on high... 30min recovery to 3.58v
I'm really liking my NiteCore DI. :thumbsup:
The first battery was used for awhile playing around and comparing it to some of my other lights. Probably not more than 10-15 min runtime. That's not really important, but I did keep track of the time it took to go into the flash mode with the remainder of juice it had.
For testing with the first battery, I thought I'd try using a lower output, thinking I might get a truer reading cause there would be less voltage sag due to the higher current draw on high.
I set the output to about 25% or there abouts. With the previous use of the battery and having not topped it off, it went to flashing at around 4hrs. Again, that doesn't really mean much, it's just more info.
I immediately removed the battery to check it and it read 3.25v. This may seem a bit low but so was the load so it makes some sense. After about 30min it recovered to about 3.35v. I then threw it in the Pila IBC charger that arrived yesterday. Nice charger! It charge to 4.20v and after sitting for a day is now at 4.18v. Perfect!
The second battery was used to test with the light on high. When it went to flash and immediately removed and checked, it read 3.47v. After a 30min rest it's up to 3.58v.
It makes sense to me that with a higher load the safety feature is going to kick in sooner. Actually, it likely doesn't. You just get a higher standing voltage once removed from the load/light. In both cases, it appears it may have kicked in at around 3.20v 'ish. You'll get less sag with less load so you'll likely use more juice before cut-off with lower output.
All in all, I'd say the Li-ion protection is working pretty well in my NDI. I usually check my batteries (too) often anyways and top off my Li-ions often. (and my Nimh's too) It would be rare for me to even have the safety feature kick in but glad it's there for those occasions when you might need it.
So when removing the battery immediately that's ...
3.25v under low output (25%) 30min recovery to 3.35v
3.47v on high... 30min recovery to 3.58v
I'm really liking my NiteCore DI. :thumbsup:
