Info on the Extreme III??? Comparison to MA1 and Avenger?

You may have noticed another of my threads about 1xCR123 lights. Well, I've decided its time for me to get an EDC. And probably one from each power category selfbuilt has done an excellent job reviewing every contending 1xAA light, so these are the two categories still unclear to me.

These three lights seem to be the best 1xAAAs out currently, but I can't enough info about the three compared to each other to satisfy me. Just to check, can the Extreme III take a 10440? (that is, w/out heating up, losing modes, or having a ridiculously short runtime)

Mostly I want to know about output. Runtime? Regulation? which light throws the best, and which has the smoothest beam? best spill? (answer any 1 and I'll be happy )

Build quality is also pretty confusing to me. Not having any LumaPower products, that whole company is a mystery to me (in terms of build quality). They coat their springs in gold, and some models have a saphire crystal lens. But you never hear much about the actual sturdiness and reliability...
Tiablo is another question. I have had a MA6 and A9, and although I loved the T7075 aluminum, the off-center emitter (on BOTH AND THE REPLACEMENT LED MODULE BECAUSE OF THAT PROBLEM) was not impressive. Can I expect the same in the MA1?

The light I know the least about is the Extreme III. It seems to have the best UI, but I am sorely lacking on info about its output relative to other 1xAAA lights.

All opinions welcome, expecially if they come from somebody owning more than one of these lights Like always, I don't have the extensive knowledge base the label under my username implies - if there's another better option, I'm all ears

Re: MA1, Avenger, and L0D Q4 - which one?

This is just my opinion but the two best lights for high power/versatile AAA are either the Fenix LOC-CE Q4 or the soon to be released Liteflux LF2X with Q5.

I just received the LOD today in olive and it is a great AAA light (with either impressive output Or long runtime). I will also purchase the Liteflux when it is available. I realy like the programmability of the Liteflux ( I had a LF3) and think it is very versatile. The Fenix LOD has been known for being one of the most efficient and I like the output and levels. So either one of these would be a great choice.

I think AAA lights are the best pocket format for EDC. If more power is needed the AA or CR123 is better and easy to carry but not for EDC without notice.

Re: MA1, Avenger, and L0D Q4 - which one?

See this current thread re: the L0D Q4. There are beamshots with 10440s.

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/188124

Also, Luminescent has some good discussion of the issue here:

http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=181417

Re: MA1, Avenger, and L0D Q4 - which one?

After a Rexlight and a Jetbeam CLE, I can't stand lights that have noticeable PWM flicker on the low settings. I believe the Fenix L0D uses PWM to dim the low levels, and users have reported the flicker is noticeable. I had to cross it off my list.

The Lumapower Avenger looks too long compared to the others.

I got a Tiablo A1 just a few days ago. It's the single stage brother to the MA1. I couldn't be happier with it.

Re: MA1, Avenger, and L0D Q4 - which one?

Someone has any idea that which one is not using pwm?
I agree with Ty bower. I have L0D p4 version and flickering is too low and very annoying.
I'm looking for the light with L0D size and multilevel (two levels are enough! low-hi) without PWM for EDC.

Re: MA1, Avenger, and L0D Q4 - which one?

psyrens said:

Someone has any idea that which one is not using pwm?
I agree with Ty bower. I have L0D p4 version and flickering is too low and very annoying.
I'm looking for the light with L0D size and multilevel (two levels are enough! low-hi) without PWM for EDC.

Click to expand...

Sounds like a Lumapower Avenger then.
They have had some mechanical issues, and were bitten by the Rebel recall (which they are dealing with, btw, unlike just about everyone else).
It's a very versatile light, with fairly well selected output levels. I use it with 10440 (it's regulated - gives 70+ minutes of runtime on high). It's tall with a clicker, and noticeably heavier than the LOD-Q4, but more typical in size when configured as a twister.

I'd check with LumaPower when the MkII will be available.

Re: MA1, Avenger, and L0D Q4 - which one?

I have the L0D Q4, I can't compare it to the other AAA lights mentioned, but I can compare it to my other Rebel 100, Q5, Luxeon, etc lights. And I love this light. It starts in medium mode, so not too high to blind you, and it might be your most common mode. As for flickering, well only low and medium have it, and most of the time I forget about it. Most of the time I use the L0D for close up work, which means the work area and the flashlight are not moving. And if you don't have much movement then the flickering is a non-issue.

The light comes with a pocket clip that can be put on in reverse so you can use it on a baseball hat as a headlamp, or attach it to your sleeve or shirt so it is facing away. So ti works in a pinch as a no hands needed light. I keep the clip attached even though I pocket carry this light all the time.

I could go on and on, but just say I recommend this light. I even gave some away as gifts to show off the best in flashlight technology.

Re: MA1, Avenger, and L0D Q4 - which one?

NO!!!! I hate PWM...

I love Fenix for NOT using PWM, and getting amazing efficiency with current regulation. I'm afraid that since they haven't upgraded their L0D, it's off the list...

So can I get someone to assure me that neither the Avenger nor MA1 use PWM? Also, what about the MA1 for whether it can take 10440s, and whether its regulated on both.

The Avenger is looking great, but for that length I can get a 1xAA light far brighter...

Re: MA1, Avenger, and L0D Q4 - which one?

The Liteflux PWM is so fast that it cannot be detected even in the lowest ouput mode and can be adjusted very low.

Re: MA1, Avenger, and L0D Q4 - which one?

The Avenger has two levels without PWM on either. They are about to release an improved clicky module after they come back from Chinese New Year. You may want to wait and see how well it is received.

The Liteflux LF2 also supports 10440 use and includes a low voltage warning that can be disabled. It also gives a voltage report when 'asked'. A new version of the LF2 called the LF2X is coming out soon.

And while we are on the subject, there is also the custom made Extreme III - sporting a Rebel 100 in a custom body with an individually tweaked circuit from the LF2.

Re: MA1, Avenger, and L0D Q4 - which one?

I came to the light... said:

NO!!!! I hate PWM...

Click to expand...

Me too.

I came to the light... said:

So can I get someone to assure me that neither the Avenger nor MA1 use PWM? Also, what about the MA1 for whether it can take 10440s, and whether its regulated on both.

Click to expand...

Tiablo promises no flickering:
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showpost.php?p=2113694&postcount=58

Nake just got a MA1. Ask him about 10440:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/188237

Re: MA1, Avenger, and L0D Q4 - which one?

Thanks for the help.

I don't think I even have to ask Nake - I just looked it up and Tiablo says it cuts off above 2.7v.

The Liteflux looks interesting... I geuss I'll have to wait until the LF2X comes out to do a full comparison though. But just to get an idea, is the LF as bright as teh rest? It seems great, but the LED isnt the best...

So the Extreme III seems like a semi-mass-produced LiteFlux mod. Can I be 100% sure it is better than the LF2 it was modded from? What about compared to the LF2X?

Re: MA1, Avenger, and L0D Q4 - which one?

I came to the light... said:

I just looked it up and Tiablo says it cuts off above 2.7v.

Click to expand...

The single stage A1 has the specified 2.7v upper limit. The two stage MA1 is rated for 4.2v maximum. They're two different lights. Nake has used his MA1 with 10440. From his description, it's fairly impressive. I still love my A1. I want the MA1 too.

You mentioned off center emitters. I've been staring down the center of a couple of Cree emitters recently. I've come to realize that the die itself is not always centered in the metal ring / glass dome assembly. Even if the manufacturers of the light are getting the Cree package perfectly centered, I'm not sure you're going to always end up with a light with a guaranteed perfectly centered beam.

In other words, I don't think it's always the manufacturer's fault (Tiablo, LumaPower, Fenix, etc.) How are they supposed to build a light with a perfect beam if the Crees come crooked to begin with?

Re: MA1, Avenger, and L0D Q4 - which one?

Ty_Bower said:

The single stage A1 has the specified 2.7v upper limit. The two stage MA1 is rated for 4.2v maximum. They're two different lights. Nake has used his MA1 with 10440. From his description, it's fairly impressive. I still love my A1. I want the MA1 too.

You mentioned off center emitters. I've been staring down the center of a couple of Cree emitters recently. I've come to realize that the die itself is not always centered in the metal ring / glass dome assembly. Even if the manufacturers of the light are getting the Cree package perfectly centered, I'm not sure you're going to always end up with a light with a guaranteed perfectly centered beam.

In other words, I don't think it's always the manufacturer's fault (Tiablo, LumaPower, Fenix, etc.) How are they supposed to build a light with a perfect beam if the Crees come crooked to begin with?

Click to expand...

I understand what you're saying, but I think its responsible for only a tiny bit of the problem. I have a Fenix L2D Q5, and while the emitter is a tiny bit off-center, it is much closer than my A9s LED. Also, shots I have seen of other lights on these forums, Surefire LEDs being a great example, have much more centered LEDs.

I think the LED is actually nearly perfectly centered on my MA6, but the problem is the reflector. The reflector wobbles around quite a bit in the head assembly, and when you screw it onto the body (w/ the emitter) it gets stuck in whatever position it was in. I tried for maybe five minutes to tap the lens to get the reflector properly positioned just before screwing it in, but the best I could do was fix it by ~.5mm (still ~1mm off), so I figure its really not worth it to spend that long every time I want to unscrew the reflector/lens. So that is why I say the MA6s LED is off-center, even though it really isn't.

Thanks for the tip on the MA1 - pm sent

I see you have added some more questions that I can help with. The Extreme III does run well on 10440, meaning that it maintains all modes including a low low. One thing I don't like about the Avenger is that the nice low low (about 5 lumens) on Nimh becomes brighter on 10440. With the Extreme I can set my low to where I like it (about 2 lumens) and it stays that way regardless of battery type.

The Extreme III does get warm when running on 10440 at 100%, but that is to be expected since it draws quite a bit of current. So much so that it is very bright, but only for something like 15 minutes. That number is only an estimate based upon a 10440 runtime plot at 50% shown here. If we calculate the current draw from a 320mAh cell that would equate to 40 mins (falsely assuming constant current) we get an estimate of (40/60)/320=480mA. So, twice that gives an estimate of 960mA on 100%. It will, of course, probably draw more than that on a fresh cell and less than that on a nearly empty cell. So yes, it has a ridiculously short runtime at 100%, but it can deliver a lot of light when called upon, and there is no one forcing you to run it at 100% for an extended period since you have so many brightness options with the LF2 interface.

I can tell you that it draws enough current at 100% from a 10440 that low quality cells like Ultrafires can't hold voltage for very long at all and the light starts giving low battery warnings. I am expecting my AW cells any day now. That is the last time I buy cheap cells for such a demanding application. (Now I repeat this to myself over and over until it sinks in.:tinfoil

mudman cj said:

I see you have added some more questions that I can help with. The Extreme III does run well on 10440, meaning that it maintains all modes including a low low. One thing I don't like about the Avenger is that the nice low low (about 5 lumens) on Nimh becomes brighter on 10440. With the Extreme I can set my low to where I like it (about 2 lumens) and it stays that way regardless of battery type.

The Extreme III does get warm when running on 10440 at 100%, but that is to be expected since it draws quite a bit of current. So much so that it is very bright, but only for something like 15 minutes. That number is only an estimate based upon a 10440 runtime plot at 50% shown here. If we calculate the current draw from a 320mAh cell that would equate to 40 mins (falsely assuming constant current) we get an estimate of (40/60)/320=480mA. So, twice that gives an estimate of 960mA on 100%. It will, of course, probably draw more than that on a fresh cell and less than that on a nearly empty cell. So yes, it has a ridiculously short runtime at 100%, but it can deliver a lot of light when called upon, and there is no one forcing you to run it at 100% for an extended period since you have so many brightness options with the LF2 interface.

I can tell you that it draws enough current at 100% from a 10440 that low quality cells like Ultrafires can't hold voltage for very long at all and the light starts giving low battery warnings. I am expecting my AW cells any day now. That is the last time I buy cheap cells for such a demanding application. (Now I repeat this to myself over and over until it sinks in.:tinfoil

Click to expand...

Thanks for the info

I just went through the same thing with 18650s for a Mag85...

Re: MA1, Avenger, and L0D Q4 - which one?

I came to the light... said:

The Liteflux looks interesting... I geuss I'll have to wait until the LF2X comes out to do a full comparison though. But just to get an idea, is the LF as bright as teh rest? It seems great, but the LED isnt the best...

Click to expand...

I think the LF2X is gonna be a Q5 emitter light. Something to look forward to. If that's the case it'll be interesting to know how it'll handle a 10440 on high.