Did SF change the flashlight world at Shot Show?

ugrey

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The world of flashlights seems to me to be a very different place than it was 7 days ago:

200 lumen P60 drop in for 6 or 9 volt - P61LED - will it throw?

350 lumen head for 9 volt M3 - KL9 - will it also take 12 volts?

120 lumen, 6 volt E series head - E2D LED - surely a plain E2e head will follow

400 lumen UB2 - even a more amazing, and smile producing, than the M6

Did anyone dream any of this could be done 4 years ago? Is the incand. dead? I started this hobby with a one watt, 20 lumen ARC LS. The world has changed. Thanks Dr. Matthews and PK.
 

Burgess

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Yep !


They're even offering an S-O-S mode now !

:tinfoil:
_
 

djblank87

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I do not think it changed the world (flashlight world) per say. I feel that this is a continued streak that Surefire tends to set every year. The seem to shock us every year with new and improved lights and I'm positive next year they will shock us again and we will once again be asking the same thing that is asked here.

Did they change the flashlight world? No, they just made it brighter for the time being. :grin2:
 

Burgess

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What really impressed me was how QUICKLY

they shipped their new "Backup" flashlight !


'Cuz we well remember the "lag" experienced Last Year,

between SHOTshow and Shipping of the L1 models. :whistle:



I must admit, even as a Non-SureFire owner,

this fact really impressed me. (thumbsUp)

_
 

Patriot

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I think it changed it in some ways. They certainly have the respect of the technology gurus again. Seeing an SOS on a Surefire is strange too.
 

Monocrom

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Nothing has changed by a giant degree. Some of the "new" things being introduced have already been done to Surefire lights, thanks to aftermarket parts, or creative CPFers.

The E2DL for example is a production version (in black) of a lego that a few CPFers put together by combining parts of an L4 and E2D.

High-output LED lamps for existing Surefire models? Yup, aftermarket as well.

The flip side is.... Surefire has a giant treasure chest of prototype, working models that us poor slobs never get to even see! Just imagine what they've got.... Now those models would change the flashlight world as we know it.... Well; likely change it. Since we have no clue what they've got.

I can just picture PK sitting in his office, and holding an M6 that would make a Surefire Beast look like this.... :candle:
 

Crenshaw

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+1 to monocrom. Other then those, i think surefire itself has not changed the flashlight world with 2008. The last big shift would have been hi power Luxeons, and when cree came into the picture, everything changed.

Crenshaw
 

yaesumofo

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Surefire is raising the bar for professional grade flashlights.
IMHO there are Surefire flashlights and then there is everybody else.
Everybody wants to compare them selves to Surefire.
Who is making flashlights remotely as innovative as the new UA2 and UB2 flashlights. Not to mention the little E1B.
Each and every one of SureFire's new lights represents a quantum leap for lights in their category.
Nobody even comes close.

I find it funny that people call the Fenix T1 a ground breaking flashlight. I thin k it is because you can break ground with it. Not because it is innovative. At least not compared to the new crop of Surefire flashlights.
Yes they will cost more. That is what happens when you buy the best equipment of its' kind.


Here is an example.
I use a Sound devices 744T recorder to record audio I do this for a living.
As a tool the 744T is an amazing 4 track high end audio recorder. It has a very complete feature set. It costs $3500.00 or so.

I can buy a zoom 4 channel audio recorder which will record 4 tracks of audio. for under $500.00
Both have the same basic purpose to record 4 track audio.
One is clearly a better machine than the other.

The Exact same thing is true when people compare Fenix flashlights to Surefire's. They both do the same basic thing emit light. One company is clearly better at it than the others all put together.

Anyway In a way Yes Surefire changes things every year.
They have certainly shaken things up around here. There is a ton of excitement over SF New Gear.
As I said they have raised the Bar... Once again on Professional grade flashlights.
Lets hope they perform as well in real life as they do in our imagination which is where they are living at the moment.
Oh and Who is chomping at the bit to open a new credit card account just for this years flashlights?
I am not personally since I will be picking and choosing very carefully what if any new lights I will jump in on. I have a tendency to hold back and let the dust settle before buying in.
I am sure there are a whole bunch of CPF;rs who Just can't wait cost be damned.
How many companies do that?
Yaesumofo
 

dougie

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I suspect that Surefire has indeed changed our (CPF's) perception of LED flashlights. Whether this sets a trend others feel the need to follow any time soon is a debatable point?

From an innovation point of view you could argue that Surefire have seen other manufacturers utilize strobing and SOS modes and now followed suit? Equally it could be argued that the really small high powered flashlights pioneered by other manufacturers set a trend that they have also followed?

However, what is undoubtedly true is that Surefire has now began to enable the utilization of LED lights into the mainstream military and law enforcement roles on an equal or better footing than comparable incandescent lights. In that sense I think that they have changed things permanently and for the better. Perhaps in a way 2008 could be argued to be the year that LED's began to replace incandescent flashlights for all but the most powerful of applications?

On a personal level for me Surefire represents the best and highest quality flashlights that I aspire to own. Many of the new range of lights that they are bringing to market may well be out of my price range but it doesn't stop me wanting to own them or knock the technology and designs that they are now bringing to market.

I think though that Surefire has raised the bar for other manufacturers to follow and in that sense Surefire's efforts at 2008's Shot Show are to be applauded.

Doug
 

Lee1959

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Lets get real here guys, nothing has changed. Every year there is some improvement that makes for substantially brighter output, and every year people hail it as the next coming. For a couple of months, until something new comes out again.

Its a circle we have all seen dozens of times. It will happen again and again. This perhaps sounds a bit jaded, but it is the way it is. And it will never satisify those who want bigger and brighter for long, because just around the corner...
 

waterboiler

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For a lot of people ask them what is a good flashlight and you get M*G. Thoes that bet their lives on a light ( LEO, Military ) would probably say Surefire and maybe Streamlight.

The general public know little or nothing about Surefire but even less about Fenix, NovaTac, etc. I also suspect that the SF users have little knowledge of some of the brands we relish.

Has Surefire changed the flashlight world --> for quite a few users yes. Most people have never seen a decent multi level light, let alone a high powered LED. For them LED lights are still mostly 5mm driven units at the local hardware store, sure some INOVA and a few others are out-there with power LEDs but the price keeps most away.

The SF market is not that price sensitive. To the the average LEO who has been using a 6/9P for years the UA2 is going to rock his/her world - more so than the P60L or even the P61L.

SF to me did not start a revolution but have combined elemets in a way to start a new generation. Class leading UI from U2, tailcap functionality from A2/L2, output from P91, focus from M*G, stobe from Gladius (???) and the runtime and reliability of an LED. The next generation of LED lights have arrived !
 

EV_007

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Raising the bar is a good description of what SureFire has done.

Their new products really add form, function and innovation to their overall line, not just swapping out different LEDs in the same aluminum tube which anyone can do.

I'm really looking forward to gettin' my hands on a few of their new offerings. The Ux2 series are gonna be hard to resist. 400 SureFire lumens in one model and the variable focus of the other is gonna be tough to choose from. Heck, maybe I'll do the CPF thing and get both and not worry about it.
 

jufam44

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Surefire's introduction of a barrage of new products truly exemplifies what stands them separate as a company: They are dedicated to innovation. Each year they put out brand new, cutting edge (relatively) lights. They stay on top of the current flashlight "fad" and create a product to fill the needs of "xx" or "yy." I think that this is what makes them different than other manufacturers: a determination to put out what they think are the best illumination tools, and then have the public respond that they are truly some of the world's best illumination tools. Surefire's lights are artwork in their own sense. Yes, they're mass manufactured, but they are still works of art. Just my 02 cents.
 

Crenshaw

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Not to mention the little E1B.
Each and every one of SureFire's new lights represents a quantum leap for lights in their category.
Nobody even comes close.

Here is an example.
I use a Sound devices 744T recorder to record audio I do this for a living.
As a tool the 744T is an amazing 4 track high end audio recorder. It has a very complete feature set. It costs $3500.00 or so.

I can buy a zoom 4 channel audio recorder which will record 4 tracks of audio. for under $500.00
Both have the same basic purpose to record 4 track audio.
One is clearly a better machine than the other.

The Exact same thing is true when people compare Fenix flashlights to Surefire's. They both do the same basic thing emit light. One company is clearly better at it than the others all put together.

Anyway In a way Yes Surefire changes things every year.
They have certainly shaken things up around here. There is a ton of excitement over SF New Gear.

I am sure there are a whole bunch of CPF;rs who Just can't wait cost be damned.
How many companies do that?
Yaesumofo

I am very sorry that i disagree with some of that, lets keep this civil okay?

Firstly, each and every surefire light is not a quantum leap, an invictus and optimus are basically an upgraded U2, with new nifty features, but essentially, the main point being the variable output selector..is it a quantum leap? no, but it IS a fantastic improvement.

And notice, your 744T is a complete set, with lots off addons, etc, while the cheaper one, i suppose isnt..then obviously the more expensive one will perform better right? and i must say, that I disagree to an extreme extent that one flashlight is clearly better then the other. You may feel differently, but thats how i feel, imo its not fair to say that one flashlight is clearly better

Since you brought up fenix, which one of surefire's single cell lights can out lumen a fenix P1DQ5? not talking about build quality, warrrenty, or anything else, just pure light output. Fenix beats surefire in this category. Yet, which one of fenix's lights outclasses surefire in build quality? the T1 might come close, or win, depending on who you ask, But all the surefire lights beat most of the fenix ones in this category. So, it is not fair to say that one is clearly better then the other.

Why is there alot of excitement about surefire gear? imo its because they rarely come out with something absolutely new. When is the last time surefire came out with an absoultely new light, before this year's shotshow?
thats not to say that it isnt worth the hype, i personally would really really like an invictus, looks absolutely fantastic.

dont even get me started on the E1B. My opinion on that is very strong, and, i know alot of people really like the E1B, so i will reserve comment there.

People have seen my posts supporting fenix as baiting, or trolling, i hope i do not come across as such here, my purpose is to point out certain things i feel a abit biased IMO.

Sure will be some CPFers who will buy surefire cost be damned, but does that mean groudbreaking? now, does that change the flashlight world, i dont think so, and does it make surefire definetly the better light? i dont think so. In the end, a light is a personal thing, each has thier own "best" light. Surefire did change the flashlight world when they started, they offered the best lights at the time. Now they are so many variables, its hard to pinpoint the best. IMO, the only thing now that can be considered as a new paradigm, would be something along the lines of the change over to high power LEDs..

please lets keep it a civil discussion..:)
no harsh tones intended, think of me as speaking in a contemplative voice.

Bottom line for me is, Surefire is a fantastic company, with really really good lights,they did change the flashlight world, just, not at this shotshow.Raise the bar? yes, change the world? no

Crenshaw
 
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CandlePowerForumsUser

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However, what is undoubtedly true is that Surefire has now began to enable the utilization of LED lights into the mainstream military and law enforcement roles on an equal or better footing than comparable incandescent lights. In that sense I think that they have changed things permanently and for the better. Perhaps in a way 2008 could be argued to be the year that LED's began to replace incandescent flashlights for all but the most powerful of applications?


I think this sums it up the best. :thumbsup:
 

CandlePowerForumsUser

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Since you brought up fenix, which one of surefire's single cell lights can out lumen a fenix P1DQ5? not talking about build quality, warrrenty, or anything else, just pure light output. Fenix beats surefire in this category.

I think you're still missing the point... Its easy to make a really bright light. I can buy a inexpensive driver and make a 1 cell light very bright. I doubt surefire is trying to make a super bright 1 cell flashlight.

Seems the trend surefire has is to make a light with an output they feel is fitting for its intended task.
 

Crenshaw

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no but youre missing my point, yae is saying that surefire is always the best, i am mearly pointing out that IF and only IF you measure strictly from how bright the thing is, fenix wins out, even IF its because surefire chooses a lower level.

I know you can buy in inexpensive driver and LED, but that too would win in terms of just output. Its just that most of the time, a surefire will win because of its other traits, but that isnt to say that it is the best in every category. Like, i dont really need a bomb proof light, thats why i use my edc (pictured below). Its not the best light, nor do i claim it to be, but it sure is brighter then any surefire 1 cell, that was MY deciding factor. It doesnt have to be anyon elses.

Crenshaw
 

ugrey

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Maybe I am just an old timer and the rest of you are youngsters, but I see these latest SF products as a huge leap forward. In the next year I will replace the majority of my SF incand. lamp assemblies with LEDs. LEDs have finally caught up with incands. Again I started this hobby 4.5 years ago with an ARC LS 1 watt putting out about 20 lumens. SF had LEDs, but they did not throw. As long as you stayed inside they were great. In 2003 when I started LEDs were add on heads for SFs. I think they put out 60 lumens with no throw, just a wall of light. Now I cannot wait to buy my first LED SF, the UB2 at 400 lumens off 2 batteries. These are the, long ago, promised days when LEDs really start to rule. These are the good old days. Holy bright flashlight Batman!
 

TJx

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imo its because they rarely come out with something absolutely new. When is the last time surefire came out with an absoultely new light, before this year's shotshow?

Crenshaw

The Kroma 2 years ago comes to mind!
 

Monocrom

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Maybe it's just me, but I'm not all that excited about the E1B. For its intended role, the barrel seems too slick and the UI a bit too complicated. It would be an excellent competitor to the Novatac 85P. Just one problem.... Novatac 120P. Still has a complicated UI, but a much better grip.

I never understood some of the complaints I see about Surefire lights having checkering that is too rough. I routinely carry my SF L4 or E2D clipped to the top of my pants pocket. Those lights never chewed up any of my pants. And we are talking about some very cheap pants that were issued to me as part of my Security Guard uniform.
 
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