R-bin Fenix Gossip

txmatt

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Moderators: please delete the other thread with this title. The forums hiccup corrupted it such that there's no message and I can't edit or reply to that thread.

Back to your regularly scheduled programming...

I was browsing the Fenix-Store web page and noticed that the L2D Q5 was added to their web page in late October (10/26/07). Four months is seemingly a long time for Fenix Cree bin releases. I know the Cree R2's have been available for a while, although maybe not in sufficient quantities for someone like Fenix. I also see some other lights coming out with R2's. So any info/speculation on new Fenix releases, especially an L2D CE R2?
 

Crenshaw

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I was wondering about that other thread too...my ears arent long enough to have heard any gossip, so, someone please chime in..i wanna know too! :popcorn:

Crenshaw
 

daveman

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Fenix has little motivation to upgrade their lights from Q5 to R2 as the increase in output cannot be observed by the end user.

Not to mention Fenix still has tons of Q5 models to sell before the next upgrade can be rolled out. We're talking about summer of this year.
 

WadeF

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I also think there aren't enough R2's to fill Fenix's needs, and some of the R2's supposedly have a higher Vf than the Q5's, so they may not be there yet for what Fenix is looking for. It's kind of disappointing to see the Q5's and R2's having higher Vf's than the Q4's and below. Hopefully they can get the Vf down on the Q5's, R2's, and beyond.
 

daveman

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This has nothing to do with the quantity, or lack of, on the part of R2 binned emitters. If anything, it has more to do with the quantity of Fenix's stock of Q5s in its inventory.
 

TORCH_BOY

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With the modern day electronics it is possible to run the R-bin quite adequately
It is possible for Fenix to develop a light as such. Others like Jetbeam
have already done it
 

Jauno

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It's kind of disappointing to see the Q5's and R2's having higher Vf's than the Q4's and below.

Offtopic, but does this (Vf thing) mean that Q5 (and R2..) need more voltage to run led flat-regulated? If so, this is reason why there is some Q5 lights that don´t run flat-regulated at lower voltage like one 3.7v li-ion, for example my Wolf-Eyes Q5.

So, it is not enough for manufacturers just update the led to newer one, they need also do some improvements to circuits as well (to get more voltage to led) ?
 

WadeF

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This has nothing to do with the quantity, or lack of, on the part of R2 binned emitters.

Sure about that? Seems like R2's are in pretty short supply right now. Fenix stopped with the Rebels because Lumileds couldn't supply a large enough quantity to Fenix.
 

daveman

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Sure about that? Seems like R2's are in pretty short supply right now. Fenix stopped with the Rebels because Lumileds couldn't supply a large enough quantity to Fenix.
Yes Wade, I was sure about that when I posted it last night, and I'm still pretty sure as of right now.

It's about the bottom line. Let's not forget the flashlight business is a business; making money comes first, pleasing customers come second, otherwise all Fenix models would be for free! If Fenix has fat government contracts like Surefire does, then they MAYBE able to eat the loss of burying their older models, but Fenix is just Fenix, and no government contracts will bail them out from the market.
 

WadeF

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This theory didn't seem to stop Fenix before. They had Cree P4's, and not long after, Cree Q2s, then shortly after that Cree Q5's, and let us not forget about the Rebel models. I know some Fenix dealers got stuck with pre-cree Fenix lights, and Cree P4 Fenix lights, etc. It just seems like Fenix hasn't let stock slow them down, and they try to bring the latest and greatest emitters to market as soon as possible.

There is obviously a short supply of R2's if Dereelight could only get a handful of them, and they could only get R2 WH bin.
 

daveman

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I don't doubt the R2s are in scant supply, but I don't belive it's the supply that's stopping Fenix from rolling out any R2 models.

Fenix's current line of Q5s, for ALL of its models, won't see any benefit from a R2 upgrade. The end user simply will not be able to observe a difference, except for tint. Add to the HUGE inventory of Q5s the dealers have on hand, in some 3 colors for every model, Fenix would bring nothing but trouble for itself by having some customers rush to buy a few R2s, report in their reviews that they can't tell the difference between those and Q5s, having built into the mentality of future expectations in to Fenix customers that a higher bin is always just around the corner for 2 bucks more, so sit out what's being sold now.

Fenix will take sizable losses from its huge Q5 inventory and possibly future bins as well if customers always believe the next bin is "just about" here.

No R2 bin will be forthcoming unless Fenix is out to screw its dealers. And that should be fine with the consumers, really, as a 5 to 8% increase won't be noticed anyhow.

R4 bins, we'll see. The end of the year, maybe.
 

mchlwise

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I think Daveman's right.

I've been thinking about this issue a little bit, more on an overall level than specifically about Fenix.

It seems to me that now is to LEDs as the late 90's was to computers.

I bought a 386 based computer in the early 90's, with 256K of Ram and a 40Mb hard-drive (yes, 40 megabytes). At that time, things were obsolete very quickly, and you were upgrading almost yearly to keep up with the demands of the new software.

The computer I type this on is over 4 years old, and runs everything I need it to just fine. I don't anticipate upgrading it ever in order to keep up with software advancements, I anticipate upgrading to a new one when this one dies from old age.

Last year, there were HUGE advancements in LEDs. We started with Luxeon 1's with huge tint and flux variations and thought they were great. Then new emitters came out. We saw Seouls, Crees, then Rebels, then better Crees, then worse Rebels.

We're to the point now, I think, where advancements are going to come much more slowly, and be smaller. It's going to take longer for new things to come out (it already does compared to last year), and there will be less and less of a difference from those new things to what we have now.

:shrug:
 

txmatt

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I wonder if Fenix didn't burn some of their retailers with the rapid releases last year. It did seem that they were committed to releasing lights with the new bins as soon as they were released. If that left a lot of stranded inventory, it might have forced them to reexamine their release strategy. Completely speculating there.

I'll be buying a new L2D CE sometime soon but likely don't "need" it until mid April. Since I can afford to delay the purchase, I likely will and see what's available in another couple months. A natural-finish Q5 or R2 would be my choice.
 

WadeF

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txmatt,

Fenix announced it was discontinuing natural finish, so grab something with natural finish sooner than later, and don't expect any natural finish R2's, what is out there, is all that is left.

Hopefully Fenix can bring back the natural finish some day.
 

Masque

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I'm guessing the natural finish is dead, dead, dead. Everyone seems to like it, but fewer seem to buy it. Maybe we'll see it in a special edition?

So, to reinforce Wade's suggestion: Grab natural while you can.
 

NA8

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I recall surfing some Japanese website that listed a Fenix T-1 R2 back in November or December. Couldn't tell you anything about it though.
 
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