something other than L2D

rideandshoot · Mar 4, 2008

First... There is a dizzying array of data and opinions on this site. I've been reading and reading. Last night the wife asked me 'what are you studying'?:shakehead "Flash lights".

I hope everyone doesn't mind, I'm going to just ask my questions and forgo the extended research…

My principal application is mountain bike lighting. I don't like the commercial off the shelf stuff because of the wires, the $$, the battery/chargers, weight, etc. My current set up is 3 Fenix L2Ds that I bought a year ago. They are working really good but I also have an L2D that use as GP flashlight and it crapped out on me. I'm going to send it back. I'd like to put together another set up for my son so...

Questions…

First… is there a better option than the L2D for the bike. I don't really need multiple output modes. Just max continuous. And I need instant on/off (can't cycle through modes). Ultrafire makes one but I wonder about reliability

Second… Did I make the wrong choice going with AAs? Would I get better performance (output or life) if I switched to 123 style rechargables? If so what light, battery and recharger do you recommend?

phil000 · Mar 4, 2008

I think AAs are a good idea if he isn't a flashaholic like the rest of us. Lithiums(rcr123, rcr2, 17670, 14500, 18650) need a bit more respect than other types of batteries but I personally love them for the extra power one can get. However, not too many average people have a spare charged 18650 on them...:thumbsdow.

As for other lights, I'd look at the sticky thread we have here for rebel/cree/ssc lights, I think it lists battery type next to it as well.

Ultrafire lights are hit or miss, and with the constant vibration from biking, I'm not sure I'd trust them that far.

Phil

Derek Dean · Mar 4, 2008

Howdy,
Sorry you weren't able to find the trouble with the bum L2D, but at least it sounds like it is being taken care of.

In case you haven't seen it, we have an entire forum here on CPF just for bicycle lighting......it's probably worth a look:

http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=86

Happy hunting!

txmatt · Mar 4, 2008

There are a few things to keep in mind when thinking of going to the 123 format and looking for rechargeables. Primary CR123's are ~3.0 volt. You can get RCR123's that are 3.0 volts or 3.7 volts. Some lights can use either and some can't. Also, these "drop-in" rechargeable lithiums have 1/2 to 2/3 the capacity of lithium primaries as I recall. You can go to bigger rechargeable Lithiums like 18650's (replaces two CR123's) but quite a few 2xCR123 lights won't accept 18650's due to the battery diameter. All of these options require a new charger as well. You also have protected vs unprotected choices. All in all, definitely do you research if you want to go down that path.

If the L2D provides the amount of light you need, it's a decent choice for flashlight-as-bike-light usage, especially if you already have AA's and NiMH charger. I don't know that moving to CR123 based Fenix lights is going to give you a significant brightness or runtime jump (maybe one or the other with RCR123's).

cave dave · Mar 4, 2008

I have tons of lights including LiIon based ones but I often use two L2D's on my handlebars for biking. Its a good setup and I can pack an extra eight Eneloops if I need more runtime. Or even stop in a gas station for Alkalines if it came to that. The only thing I would consider replacing them with is a 18650 based light, but haven't found one that I really like yet.

If you do the math a 2xAA NiMh have more capacity than 2 x rCR123's.
See this post:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2306741&postcount=28

I use an Apex or EOS headlamp on the helmet.

You can turn the Fenix Instant on off by tightening the head to max, click the switch on. Now just tighten loosen the tail while you are riding when you want to turn it on or off. This is easier than bothering with the push switch.

BentHeadTX · Mar 4, 2008

I use a helmet-mount system for my L2D RB100 light and it works very well for commuting to work. For mountain biking, I view it a little different so have a plan.

Two L2D RB100s on the bars running Eneloop NiMH AA cells(waiting for Luxeon to put out the improved RB100 or RB120 LEDs) A single cell AA (forgot the name but it eats batteries once per hour, has a spot for screaming throw...Pro something with a Cree R2 LED) The 2AA lights are too large when ducking tree limbs etc. when I hit the dirt.

I plan to use lithium AA cells on the single AA helmet light to get lighter weight and longer runtimes.

Now for Fenix to release the L2D RB120

LED_Thrift · Mar 4, 2008

Welcome to CPF.

I can't think of a better light right now for putting on a bike than the L2D. It has a great combination of useful beam pattern, very good battery efficeincy, and is rugged/water resistant enough for most applications.

As far as lithium batteries: if you need to have a single cell light, than lithium will usually give you a brighter light since the designers have twice the voltage to work with, but if you can fit two AA cells [same 3.0 total voltage] it is probably better to stick with AAs, unless you need both rechargable AND cold weather performance. The NiMH AAs at this point are very good battery options, 2500 mAh cells if you are going to charge and use right away, or the Eneloops or Rayovac Hybrids for cells that may sit a while before being used [they have about 2100mAh].

Check out the "Bicycle" forum here if you haven't already.

rideandshoot · Mar 4, 2008

I came to the same conclusion most of you have... :sigh:

So the Fenix L2D is it. I'm not really looking for a single cell light, just wondering if I could get more light or more run time runing 2 123s or a 18650?

I'll peruse the 'list' some more.

I wish that ultrafire light inspired more confidence because it's the perfect design but...

BTW whats up with Eneloops? I'm using duracell 2650 AH NiMH and the 15 minute charger. Am I missing somethig?

Thanks!

txmatt · Mar 4, 2008

Eneloops have very low self discharge so if you leave them unattanded for 6 months they'll still have useful charge left in them, unlike most other NiMH batteries which will be basically useless after 6 months. They also seem to hold up well to high current usage. The negative is that they're "only" 2000mAh, so you do give up some capacity. They're great for devices that might go unused for a while, but for frequently used devices where you're constantly charging batteries, the higher capacity NiMH like you have will give longer runtimes. I've almost done away with alkaline AA's. I'll even use Eneloops in remotes and cordless mice.

lumenal · Mar 4, 2008

rideandshoot;2384392 I'm using duracell 2650 AH NiMH and the 15 minute charger. Am I missing somethig?[/quote said:
A couple quick points.

Most 15 min. chargers are very hard on NiMH cells, especially higher capacity cells (above 2200 mAh).

The Energizer 15 min.charger, while it does a good job of fully charging the cells in 25 min. or less, is most notorious for heat. And cooking your cells can result in internal damage and lost cycles.

OTOH, the Duracell 15 min. charger is a little gentler on NiMH cells. But at a price.

Most cells are only about 65-70% charged using the Duracell 15 min. charger, after a normal 15 min . cycle ( and then waiting the 10 min. or so after the red LED has turned off for the fan to also turn off).

The Duracell 15 min. charger then goes into a trickle charge for about the next 2 hours, bringing the cells up to a complete charge. (You can hear the charger "clicking", when the "clicking" stops, the cells are done, 2 hours later :sigh.

Thats why the Duracell 15 min. charger should be called the Duracell 2 and 1/2 hour charger. :laughing:

EDIT- The current Duracell 15 min. charger now comes with 4 Duracell PreCharged AA cells. Lets hope the charger circuitry was tweaked.

rideandshoot · Mar 6, 2008

lumenal said:
A couple quick points.

Most 15 min. chargers are very hard on NiMH cells, especially higher capacity cells (above 2200 mAh).

The Energizer 15 min.charger, while it does a good job of fully charging the cells in 25 min. or less, is most notorious for heat. And cooking your cells can result in internal damage and lost cycles.

OTOH, the Duracell 15 min. charger is a little gentler on NiMH cells. But at a price.

Most cells are only about 65-70% charged using the Duracell 15 min. charger, after a normal 15 min . cycle ( and then waiting the 10 min. or so after the red LED has turned off for the fan to also turn off).

The Duracell 15 min. charger then goes into a trickle charge for about the next 2 hours, bringing the cells up to a complete charge. (You can hear the charger "clicking", when the "clicking" stops, the cells are done, 2 hours later :sigh.

Thats why the Duracell 15 min. charger should be called the Duracell 2 and 1/2 hour charger. :laughing:

EDIT- The current Duracell 15 min. charger now comes with 4 Duracell PreCharged AA cells. Lets hope the charger circuitry was tweaked.

This is great data... I've never run the Duracell 2650s all the way out but I have got 1.5 hours on turbo mode on a couple occaisions. I usually leave them on the charger for 10 minutes after the light changes.

The charger does heat up the batteries but they cool quickly after the charger switches to trickle (green light). I'll start leaving them on the charger longer.

coldass · Mar 6, 2008

For bike riding there are some excellent MTB all-in-one designs. The best is Exposure Lights (use 18650's).

I agree with Cave Dave that 18650 lights are the best potential.

I find most flashlights are to 'spot' for useful bike riding. You need more spill and flood.

Therefore I think lights with beam adjustment have the best potential. I want to try the Wolf-Eyes Fox1 - or better the new Surefire Optimus.

But that said for the money your into real bike lights. The Exposure addresses what your looking for I'd say.

.....For my mind thought a 3xCree Q5 MR11 at 10-15deg running 1amp per Cree off 12V 4x18650 with a few inches of cable is so much better than 2, 3 or even 5 L2D's I don't know why you'd go that way. I built this setup for less than $250 with charger (search on Cutter Electronic and go to kits). That is way more than 600 lumens for a few hours runtime. Plenty of advice on this in the bike forum here or better at mtbr.com.

chewy78 · Mar 6, 2008

rideandshoot said:
This is great data... I've never run the Duracell 2650s all the way out but I have got 1.5 hours on turbo mode on a couple occasions. I usually leave them on the charger for 10 minutes after the light changes.

The charger does heat up the batteries but they cool quickly after the charger switches to trickle (green light). I'll start leaving them on the charger longer.

Most off the store bought chargers suck . Your charger puts out like 7 amps, that's way to much. I recommend a MAHA 401fs charger. It does a better job. I used to have a cheap energizer 30 minute charger, with an output of 4 amps it was way to much for nimh aa's. You don't want to pump more than 1c into them. [2.6 amps] I personally would charge them at 1 amp for cooler charging. At 7 amps, your batteries wont last long.

Charge them at .5 ,1,or 2amps is plenty. Any charger you find in a retail store are not as good as one you can find on the internet.

Ysuez · Mar 6, 2008

I agree for the 18650.
Wolf-Eyes Fox-1X and 6AX/PX have nice spill and overall output, and last more than 2h with a single cell. Take 2 extra batteries and you'll never run out of juice.

cave dave · Mar 6, 2008

coldass said:
I find most flashlights are to 'spot' for useful bike riding. You need more spill and flood.

I agree on this one. Easy fix though. I use a diffuser similar to the Surefire F04 on the light pointed closer and stock OP reflector on the one pointed further down.

I use a Optic on the headlamp where the large spot no spill beam is more handy since it points where you look.

rideandshoot · Mar 7, 2008

lumenal said:
A couple quick points.

Most 15 min. chargers are very hard on NiMH cells, especially higher capacity cells (above 2200 mAh).

The Energizer 15 min.charger, while it does a good job of fully charging the cells in 25 min. or less, is most notorious for heat. And cooking your cells can result in internal damage and lost cycles.

OTOH, the Duracell 15 min. charger is a little gentler on NiMH cells. But at a price.

Most cells are only about 65-70% charged using the Duracell 15 min. charger, after a normal 15 min . cycle ( and then waiting the 10 min. or so after the red LED has turned off for the fan to also turn off).

The Duracell 15 min. charger then goes into a trickle charge for about the next 2 hours, bringing the cells up to a complete charge. (You can hear the charger "clicking", when the "clicking" stops, the cells are done, 2 hours later :sigh.

Thats why the Duracell 15 min. charger should be called the Duracell 2 and 1/2 hour charger. :laughing:

EDIT- The current Duracell 15 min. charger now comes with 4 Duracell PreCharged AA cells. Lets hope the charger circuitry was tweaked.

My charger is actually an Energizer model. So your data indicates that it does achieve full charge but reduces the life do to the fast charging rate. That explains why I haven't had run time issues so far...

I don't mind going to a slower charging rate as long as it charges 4 AAs in less than 2 hours. However it need to have an auto shut down.

I'll move this over to the Battery section

Calling all recomendations

chewy78 · Mar 7, 2008

something other than L2D

rideandshoot

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phil000

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Derek Dean

Flashlight Enthusiast

txmatt

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cave dave

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BentHeadTX

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LED_Thrift

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rideandshoot

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txmatt

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lumenal

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rideandshoot

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coldass

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chewy78

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Ysuez

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cave dave

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rideandshoot

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chewy78

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