CPF influence on mfgs. and dlrs. CPF Rocks

It's apparent that CPF influences what manufacturers build and what dealers do. I'm bringing this up because of a recent dealing with an online dealer. When I mentioned I was having trouble placing an order online they got back to me right away, fixed the problem and sent a gift as well. All this happened because I am a CPF member. This dealer is now on our dealers sticky list.

We carry enormous influence in the flashlight world and wonder if people have other similar experiences that influence manufacture, design or sales of flashlights.

We as members are shaping a hobby, an industry, and customer service over the internet with global impact. CPF and it's members rock.

Whilst it would be great to be able to agree to this statement I'm afraid I don't see any evidence that manufacturers pay any attention to this or any other flashlight forum.

I do agree that there are some dealers who will give a discount to members of CPF and are potentially more receptive to trying to service particular request or requirements but that is a different situation than you are suggesting.

I'm afraid I would have to take a lot of convincing to believe that CPF holds any sway with how manufacturers decide to design or market any of their products.:shrug:

Doug

Actually, to me from a cursory lurking on CPFMarketPlace it seems like mfrs pay great deal of attention to what the customers say directly on CPFMP

Also, the Dealers definitely have great sway over mfrs for getting certain special editions of lights and indirectly all that is our input too.

Influence on manufacturers and dealers is expected from customers and potential buyers. Influence on customers and buyers is also expected from manufacturers and dealers.

CPF is a significant collection of customers, buyers, manufacturers and dealers. Absolutely, we influence one another to a certain degree. Soliciting reports from which of us have given a little too much or taken a bit too much, while demonstrating influence we each exercise toward one another, also gets too easily into personals.

Let's just enjoy being a part of a great forum. The thread will survive only as long as it does not become specific toward particular members, manufacturers or dealers.

The thread is also off-topic for the flashlight forums. I'll move it to the Cafe.

I would have to agree that CPF and the other forums have a significant impact on what the dealers offer etc. What I don't think the forums influence all that much, is the LED manufacturers. I'm sure they pay some attention, but it would be interesting to see what percentage of, for instance, high power LEDs from Lumileds, Cree, and SSC actually go into flashlights/torches. I would think it's probably only a small percentage, significant, but not that influential on the companies course of action.

Many on the forums seem to think that when such and such isn't quite right for their light, that the LED manufacturers should jump right on it and fix it, not realizing that the other markets for their LEDs are far more important to them.

Just a thought.

Dave

I haven't seen any evidence recently that the Flashlight Industry has payed attention to our forum, or any other flashlight-forum, for that matter. That having been said, I believe that Manufacturers involved with CPF directly take our feedback and mold future products to it.

45/70 said:

I would have to agree that CPF and the other forums have a significant impact on what the dealers offer etc. What I don't think the forums influence all that much, is the LED manufacturers. I'm sure they pay some attention, but it would be interesting to see what percentage of, for instance, high power LEDs from Lumileds, Cree, and SSC actually go into flashlights/torches. I would think it's probably only a small percentage, significant, but not that influential on the companies course of action.

Many on the forums seem to think that when such and such isn't quite right for their light, that the LED manufacturers should jump right on it and fix it, not realizing that the other markets for their LEDs are far more important to them.

Just a thought.

Dave

Click to expand...

This isn't a shot at you at all, but I keep hearing that flashlights are a small portion of the market for high-flux LEDs, but I don't see any evidence of this huge market in real life.

I think fixed and room lighting as well as automotive and other transportation applications (trains, planes, ...) are the target market for all those LED manufacturers. Imagine how many LEDs will fit in there ... oo:

Flashlights are insignificant, except for us.

bernie

Flashlights are a drop in the bucket for the high flux LED's.

I'll pick on Boeing and Airbus. Both of them are looking at LED's for aircraft cabin lighting. If they could get a good spectrum out of the current LED's - they'd use around 3000 LED's per plane.

Compare that with an SF Backup run - 3000 LED's would last a good chunk of a production run, versus 3000 LED's for a single plane.

Guess who Cree/Lumileds/SSC would listen to? Not us.

-Steve

Beastmaster said:

Flashlights are a drop in the bucket for the high flux LED's.

I'll pick on Boeing and Airbus. Both of them are looking at LED's for aircraft cabin lighting. If they could get a good spectrum out of the current LED's - they'd use around 3000 LED's per plane.

Compare that with an SF Backup run - 3000 LED's would last a good chunk of a production run, versus 3000 LED's for a single plane.

Guess who Cree/Lumileds/SSC would listen to? Not us.

-Steve

Click to expand...

'Looking at' is very different from 'using'. I'd like to see somewhere where these LEDs are currently being used in large scale.

As LEDs are new and have yet to stabilize I think that is a "battle" for the future. We are in the midst of a revolution in lighting. Takes time.

Further more, this is not a point for the importance of LED flashlights and us enthusiasts for manufacturers ... as most of the important manufacturers are doing incan today ... Mag, SF, look at the new Pentagonlight catalogie, Pelican, UK, ... you name them.

The time will come very soon for LED to rule. But it won't be the flashlights that decide any battle IMHO.

bernie

lyrrag said:

It's apparent that CPF influences what manufacturers build and what dealers do. I'm bringing this up because of a recent dealing with an online dealer. When I mentioned I was having trouble placing an order online they got back to me right away, fixed the problem and sent a gift as well. All this happened because I am a CPF member. This dealer is now on our dealers sticky list.

We carry enormous influence in the flashlight world and wonder if people have other similar experiences that influence manufacture, design or sales of flashlights.

We as members are shaping a hobby, an industry, and customer service over the internet with global impact. CPF and it's members rock.

Click to expand...

Emphasis mine
This is something that came to mind after reading your post and I do hope I am interpreting it incorrectly.....


Are you implying some sort of payment or reward to you for their link being in the sticky list?

I think many of the manufacturers do respond to the forum. If you look in the marketplace, there is virtually a daily exchange of info between customers and light manufacturers like Tiablo and Dereelight. This includes accessories and lights. I think it's great.

It's a double edge sword, because we also get flooded with dealers trying to sell mediocre lights at premium prices from overseas just because we are CPF so take it with a grain of salt. Support the local dealers

I guess I'm just a little uncomfortable with members throwing around the CPF name... as if it should/could/would get them special treatment and/or "gifts". I'm also uncomfortable with members using the CPF name as a kind of "threat" as well. I know that is not what the OP of this thread did or has implied but I do know it happens.

When members use the CPF name, it almost implies that they speak for the entire membership... or at the very least, for the owner... aka ME. And that should NEVER be done!

I would like to ask that the members of CPF please not use the CPF name for any of the above mentioned purposes. Believe it or not, I *DO* hear about these things from the dealers and manufacturers when I happen to run into them at such events as SHOT or in other settings... and you'd be surprised at how many negative comments they make regarding that kind of behavior.

Let's face it guys... it's just bad form.

It would seem that some of the smaller and newer manufacturers come here looking for input. I've even had some contact me by PM asking for ideas to incorporate into lights. I've seen some very big name companies pop their head in here a couple times. I think some of the current crop of new Surefires even reflect on some of the expressed wants here. I would not discount CPF's sway on the flashlight industry with the exception of a company like M@glite. I'll bet a lot of lurkers here are light designers and companies looking for ideas. Just my opinion anyway.
As far as using the CPF name when dealing with dealers and so on - it seems to work fine for getting 'CPF discounts' - we have a sticky with supporting dealers where we get 'special treatment' by mentioning we are a CPF member or using their specific discount code. I'm sure that is not the problem Sasha is talking about. I'd say there is a fine line there where you don't want to cross over by using CPF membership in any 'manipulative' or 'power mongering' way.

I'll add to that the Internet has changed the business world in a big way. And it is a change for the better IMO. People are much more easily able to get in touch with manufacturers and dealers. And feedback in forums just like feedback on eBay tends to make manufacturers and dealers much more responsive. Do they like it? I'm sure some hate it but it is great for the little guy and consumers - US! Others probably like having the feedback to self-improve their products and service.

Manufacturers and dealers are very aware nowadays (unless they really have their heads buried in the sand) that when they make a mistake or treat someone very poorly that it can end up all over Blogs, forums, Youtube and other aspects on the Internet and can have a very negative impact on their business - maybe even a disproportionate amount of impact. So I'm sure some are very uptight about this aspect. Used properly the Internet can be for the good of all but used in a wrong way and it can be a problem for everyone. I think if you have been badly treated by a company and have tried everything to get a resolution that taking it to the Internet and letting that company know you are going to be shouting the details of your mistreatment (accurately and without exageration) is not only an acceptable thing to do but a great lever against corporate greed, manufacturers who choose to ignore their customers and even dealers who think they can get away with almost anything.

as Kiessling stated:

Flashlights are insignificant, except for us.



Words of wisdom, indeed.

_

In reply to the post that I am seeking some kind of renumeration or reward for recommending a dealer. Just rest assured that I am not looking for this. The post was merely my opinion and I was looking for other thoughts on the subject. I forgot to mention that the vendor asked me if I belonged to CPF because I learned about the CPF discount through a friend at work. How did he find the discount? I don't know.

Thanks lyrrag

Burgess - I'll have to disagree a bit on that. I think Personal lighting instruments (flashlights) are becoming much bigger than in the past due to advances in technology - especially with high power LED's. But don't just take my opinion on that. Check this out - and while it's not the do all end all on this topic I think it really does say something. Go to www.target.com - a major retailer in the U.S. as I'm sure most people know. Enter in their search field 'flashlight' and you will get 249 hits - that's 249 flashlights. Now enter 'LED' and you'll get 900 hits. It would seem that both flashlights and LED's are quite important to one of the biggest retailers in the U.S.
However I agree that to the LED manufacturers we are probably not the biggest dog in the pack but I believe they look at us as the cutting edge of where things are going and the people who will help promote LED's to the general populus. Look at the first power LED - the Luxeon I - where have your seen a Lux I other than in a flashlight? I'm asking as I don't really know but I've never seen them anywhere else. Flashlights brought these into peoples awareness in many cases.

lyrrag - there is a sticky at the top of the dealers corner on the CPF Marketplace maintained by GreenLED that lists discounts and coupons, specials and so on for CPF members - Here