Novatac Concerns - Please Don't Shoot Me!

BabyDoc · Mar 19, 2008

Please don't shoot me, for the following criticisms of the Novatac P-120-B.
I purchased this light because of its large positive following on this website, only to be disappointed that it falls short in several important ways:

1. In only one week the black, anodized finish has worn in several areas on my light, even though it has never been dropped, and never carried loose in my pocket. I have a Fenix L0D on a keychain that barely has a scratch on it. Perhaps the extremely tight new flat clip did this as I unscrewed the body. I didn't think so, but who knows. I know we can anodize metal better than this in the US. SureFire can. Anybody else having problems like this? (Novatac does not provide a warranty on the finish)
2. I was disappointed to see the light had a plastic lens. (Perhaps I should have read the specs closer, but who would have expected this in a $170 light.)
3. It's "beautiful smooth beam" looks rather strange. I have seen no other lights with a beam quite like this one. The hot spot is very small and has no edge definition to the point it makes me wonder how Novatac did this. Did they purposely misalign the LED and reflector?. Is this how they magically eliminated all artifacts, and created a spill that is even and bright beyond belief? I wondered if this was true especially because the light fails to throw as far as a Fenix L1D -Q5, claiming also to be 120 lumens. (It could be they are rating their outputs differently, I don't know).
4. My LED is rather cold. It has even a purple tint on low levels. I tried a half dozen lights at my dealer and all the black p120's looked the same to me. His old olive demonstrator (anodized finish also worn in places) was much warmer. I guess I just lost out on the LED lottery. It is too bad these lights can't be more uniform from one lot to another. (I guess this problem isn't unique to Novatac. I have heard people complain about their SF's tint variability in the same way.)

OK, I've aired my concerns, ONLY because I am not sure anybody else has, and only to set the record straight from one users standpoint that this light is far from a perfect EDC light. I am not telling people not to buy this light. It has a lot going for it. (see below). However, I don't think I am alone on some of these points. I have read in other threads people sending their lights off for various modifications: lense replacements, optics enhancements, different LED's etc. While these people are perhaps less vocal than I am here, why are they improving their lights if they don't have some of these issues?

To be fair, I should list the positives of this light. I love the interface. I love that it can be programmed in almost any way you could imagine. Does any other light offer a 0.3 or lower lumen low? I love that it is well engineered to handle various battery options, including rechargables, and that the light can be programed to recognize and protect those sources from overdischarge. I love that it has thermal protection built in and options to turn the light off should you forget and leave it turned on. It is built to be waterproof to 66ft. Not too many lights give a waterproof rating like this.

Given all its wonderful features, it is even more disappointing to me that all this great engineering , isn't matched by the build quality. Again, If I am alone here in my thinking, please don't shoot me.

Everett · Mar 19, 2008

Hey,
I won't shoot, you have valid criticisms and you made your points logically. Some things come to mind:
1. It's my understanding that black anodization is not quite as tough as the "natural" color. Still, perhaps Novatac isn't anodizing quite as deeply as others (Surefire). You might have better luck with the natural finish.
2. I understand why people don't like the plastic lens, but it's a positive attribute in my opinion. You lose output and scratch resistance, but it makes it much more impact-resistant.
3. I agree that its throw is a little lacking, but I think the beam pattern is fantastic--it very smoothly fades from the hotspot with just the right balance of brightness from hotspot to sidespill in my opinion. If you want to try a different beam pattern, you could try the mod dubbed "supernova" in which the reflector is swapped with a KL1 optic.
4. Too bad about your LED. Why not try swapping with one from DX for about $6?

Derek Dean · Mar 19, 2008

Howdy BabyDoc,
I seriously doubt anybody here would offer to shoot you over criticism of the NovaTac 120. To be honest, I think there are just as many folks here who don't like it for one reason or another as there are folks that do. I happen to be one of those have been quite happy with mine (120P). Now, let's see if I can address your issues:

1. I've got one of the original olive anodized lights which has been in my pocket everyday, all day with change, knives, etc for over 7 months ..... and shows almost no signs of wear. Seriously.... this is a tough finish. I think you might want to talk to your dealer about that issue.

2. The polycarbonate front window has been discussed at length here on CPF. If you ever drop your light from 20 ft onto a concrete floor, you'll be happy it has the super strong polycarbonate window. It was used for just that purpose, to help this light be as rugged as possible. Mine has gotten a bit worn over the months in my pocket, but nothing that degrades the light that I can see, I feel good knowing it's not going to fail.

3. I guess we all have a different definition of what is a "beautiful beam". For my purpose as an EDC, I feel the beam on the NovaTac is perfect, with enough of a hotspot see something off in the distance, but also a nicely blended beam that is incredibly useful for closeup to medium lighting, which is 99% of what I use this light for. The beam on this light is actually one of my favorite things.

4. I guess we are still in the LED lottery as far as tint goes. If you had the opportunity to try this at a dealer, I'm not sure what the problem is. Mine is a very neutral color, slightly warm.

The only real issue I can see is the anodizing, and you might consider talking to your dealer about that....... the other stuff I think you can simply chalk up to different folks looking for different things in an EDC light, which is why there are so many available.

Maybe your dealer would let you exchange it, or you can always sell it over on the Marketplace. In any case, half the fun is trying out lights to find one that works great for you. Good luck.

sawlight · Mar 19, 2008

Derek Dean said:
Howdy BabyDoc,
I seriously doubt anybody here would offer to shoot you over criticism of the NovaTac 120. To be honest, I think there are just as many folks here who don't like it for one reason or another as there are folks that do. I happen to be one of those have been quite happy with mine (120P). Now, let's see if I can address your issues:

1. I've got one of the original olive anodized lights which has been in my pocket everyday, all day with change, knives, etc for over 7 months ..... and shows almost no signs of wear. Seriously.... this is a tough finish. I think you might want to talk to your dealer about that issue.

2. The polycarbonate front window has been discussed at length here on CPF. If you ever drop your light from 20 ft onto a concrete floor, you'll be happy it has the super strong polycarbonate window. It was used for just that purpose, to help this light be as rugged as possible. Mine has gotten a bit worn over the months in my pocket, but nothing that degrades the light that I can see, I feel good knowing it's not going to fail.

3. I guess we all have a different definition of what is a "beautiful beam". For my purpose as an EDC, I feel the beam on the NovaTac is perfect, with enough of a hotspot see something off in the distance, but also a nicely blended beam that is incredibly useful for closeup to medium lighting, which is 99% of what I use this light for. The beam on this light is actually one of my favorite things.

4. I guess we are still in the LED lottery as far as tint goes. If you had the opportunity to try this at a dealer, I'm not sure what the problem is. Mine is a very neutral color, slightly warm.

The only real issue I can see is the anodizing, and you might consider talking to your dealer about that....... the other stuff I think you can simply chalk up to different folks looking for different things in an EDC light, which is why there are so many available.

Maybe your dealer would let you exchange it, or you can always sell it over on the Marketplace. In any case, half the fun is trying out lights to find one that works great for you. Good luck.

1) I agree, the finish has been the last thing I have had to worry about!!

2)Not that I would know anything about this

, but the "plastic lens" has it's virtues!! (Derek, I believe, was reffering to me on this one)

3) I think the beam is fantastic for an EDC!!! It out throws any Mag I have seen:naughty: and the retna isn't so focusd that you can't use it up close (as others have said!) I find it as nice as an E2E as you could get with an LED!!

4)My LED is a bit blue from my tastes, not sure I could handle purple!!!

Very sorry you are unhappy with it!! I am sure you can get a return on it in BST. No I am not even angry, no one light is perfect for everyone.
I wish you luck in finding you're perfect EDC!

Wattnot · Mar 19, 2008

HOLY COW, Man! Would you go into the Humane Society and kick a PUPPY!?!?!

Just kidding!

It's a very interesting light. The beam is it's strongest attribute with the programmability a close second (some here would reverse those two . . fine!). I had one for a week or so but ended up trading it for an L1 Cree and some cash. I didn't need the progammability and the ultra nice beam was really wasted on me . . . I'd rather have the lumens and the throw (the lumens of my P2D and the throw of the L1). But the main reason was because I bought it as an EDC but it's a bit large for summer carry. That and I felt by next fall there would be so much more newfangled stuff out, and the price of the 120P would be lower . . . I thought it best go to a more appreciative owner!

Derek Dean · Mar 19, 2008

sawlight said:
2)Not that I would know anything about this, but the "plastic lens" has it's virtues!! (Derek, I believe, was reffering to me on this one)

Lol, yes I was referring to your infamous "Can it take it... flashlight death by major abuse" thread.

BTW, I'll admit I was curious to see if ANY light could live through the abuse your promised to give it, and I've been happy to see report after report, from you and others, as to the NovaTac's rugged nature being more than mere hype.

However, it does sound to me like BabyDoc has a few more lights to try before he finds HIS perfect EDC. Viva la difference~!

Crenshaw · Mar 19, 2008

Derek Dean said:
I think there are just as many folks here who don't like it for one reason or another

:wave:

not a light for me, UI learning curve is steep, despite being easy once you get it. and i like my hotspots, AND spill..

Crenshaw

seery · Mar 19, 2008

My 3 120P's are the olive natural finish and have held up perfect under
regular daily use, as have the lenses.

Beam quality on all the 120P's I've seen is IMO as close to perfect as a
light can be, second only to the Surefire L4.

Sorry to hear about the finish on your black and would also suggest you
contact the manufacturer directly.

Any chance you could post a few pics showing the wear?

jzmtl · Mar 19, 2008

I think the UI is pretty easy actually. Just sit there try out everything with instruction infront of you, and you'll learn it quick.

sawlight said:
I think the beam is fantastic for an EDC!!! It out throws any Mag I have seen:naughty: and the retna isn't so focusd that you can't use it up close (as others have said!) I find it as nice as an E2E as you could get with an LED!!

There is no way it outthrow a mag, unless you mean minimag. I compared it against my 3D and novatac's hotspot is almost gone at 10 meters or so, while mag's is small and distinct.

yaesumofo · Mar 19, 2008

A picture of the wear on the Black anno would be good.

Type III is type III. It is a spec. If the black annodizing on the NovaTac is already wearing it may not be up to spec.
I have found that black or natural annodizing will wear most along sharp edges.

On the other hand a user light is just that a user and it is going to get worn. The annodizing will begin to take on some character and age.
This has no effect on the function of the light.

On the other hand we may want out lights to stay good looking and a good mil spec type III finish should hold up better than you describe.

Even though this may not be a covered item warranty wise I recommend that you describe your issues in detail and include an image of the premature wear to novatac. I am guessing that they would prefer that you were a happy customer then an unhappy one.
Try it you have nothing to loose.
The tint of the emitter sounds like it is a little on the cool side.
Somebody recommended that you replace it with a new one from DX.
First of all there is nothing to say that a unit received from DX will be any better. The replacement of the emitter in the most current novatac's is no easy task since the removal of the bezel is almost impossible. IMHO this is not an option on a brand new flashlight.
The polycarbonate "lens" ? Some would argue that this is a better option than "glass" since a single drop to the ground and a glass "lens" may not survive a 5 foot drop. the polycarbonate will not break if dropped.

If I were that unhappy with it I would sell it on the BST forum and cut my losses.
Yaesumofo

Baby Doc said:
Please don't shoot me, for the following criticisms of the Novatac P-120-B.
I purchased this light because of its large positive following on this website, only to be disappointed that it falls short in several important ways:

1. In only one week the black, anodized finish has worn in several areas on my light, even though it has never been dropped, and never carried loose in my pocket. I have a Fenix L0D on a keychain that barely has a scratch on it. Perhaps the extremely tight new flat clip did this as I unscrewed the body. I didn't think so, but who knows. I know we can anodize metal better than this in the US. Surefire can. Anybody else having problems like this? (Novatac does not provide a warranty on the finish)
2. I was disappointed to see the light had a plastic lens. (Perhaps I should have read the specs closer, but who would have expected this in a $170 light.)
3. It's "beautiful smooth beam" looks rather strange. I have seen no other lights with a beam quite like this one. The hot spot is very small and has no edge definition to the point it makes me wonder how Novatac did this. Did they purposely misalign the LED and reflector?. Is this how they magically eliminated all artifacts, and created a spill that is even and bright beyond belief? I wondered if this was true especially because the light fails to throw as far as a Fenix L1D -Q5, claiming also to be 120 lumens. (It could be they are rating their outputs differently, I don't know).
4. My LED is rather cold. It has even a purple tint on low levels. I tried a half dozen lights at my dealer and all the black p120's looked the same to me. His old olive demonstrator (anodized finish also worn in places) was much warmer. I guess I just lost out on the LED lottery. It is too bad these lights can't be more uniform from one lot to another. (I guess this problem isn't unique to Novatac. I have heard people complain about their SF's tint variability in the same way.)

OK, I've aired my concerns, ONLY because I am not sure anybody else has, and only to set the record straight from one users standpoint that this light is far from a perfect EDC light. I am not telling people not to buy this light. It has a lot going for it. (see below). However, I don't think I am alone on some of these points. I have read in other threads people sending their lights off for various modifications: lense replacements, optics enhancements, different Leds etc. While these people are perhaps less vocal than I am here, why are they improving their lights if they don't have some of these issues?

To be fair, I should list the positives of this light. I love the interface. I love that it can be programmed in almost any way you could imagine. Does any other light offer a 0.3 or lower lumen low? I love that it is well engineered to handle various battery options, including rechargeables, and that the light can be programed to recognize and protect those sources from overdischarge. I love that it has thermal protection built in and options to turn the light off should you forget and leave it turned on. It is built to be waterproof to 66ft. Not too many lights give a waterproof rating like this.

Given all its wonderful features, it is even more disappointing to me that all this great engineering , isn't matched by the build quality. Again, If I am alone here in my thinking, please don't shoot me.

jzmtl · Mar 19, 2008

yaesumofo said:
Somebody recommended that you replace it with a new one from DX.
First of all there is nothing to say that a unit received from DX will be any better. The replacement of the emitter in the most current novatac's is no easy task since the removal of the bezel is almost impossible. IMHO this is not an option on a brand new flashlight.

DX claim theirs is SW bin and the one I bought from them is warm. To replace the led on novatac you don't need to remove the bezel. You remove the retainer ring from back of tube and the pill falls right out. That said I wouldn't screw with a brand new $170 light.

precisionworks · Mar 19, 2008

it does sound to me like BabyDoc has a few more lights to try before he finds HIS perfect EDC.

+1

It seems like almost everyone here loves the Surefire L1 ... bought one on BST, tried it for a couple of days, sold it on BST

Then it seemed like everybody loved the Nitecore Defender ... bought one on BST, tried it for a couple of days, sold it on BST

Then seery suggested the 120P ... bought one on BST, tried it for a couple of weeks, bought another one on BST. Told my son how neat it is & he also bought one on BST. Then he one-upped me & bought an HDS ... I must have gone wrong somewhere

NovaTacs work for a lot of people. A few don't like the size, some dislike the UI, etc. Most everyone reports perfect or near perfect beam, including both of mine.

Give NovaTac a phone call & explain your issues. They seem very cooperative on the phone. The black lights are 'new', as shown by the 20,000 serial numbers (the last of the older was around 14,000) and perhaps they've sourced a different driver board, etc. A phone call should resolve this.

BabyDoc · Mar 19, 2008

Gee, you guys are nicer than I thought! I am still standing!

It was nice hearing that the olive finish has held up better for those who have commented here. I would love to hear from anyone with the black finish. Mine, honestly, looks like it was spray painted with flat black paint. It doesn't look anodized the way some of the paint has chipped on it. BTW, did you ever look at your lifetime warranty. Did you guess they exclude a warranty on the finish. That's the ONLY exclusion. Do they know something that I now know?

I actually don't have any problems with the interface. Though I have to admit when I first read the directions on-line, I was a bit confused until I had the light in my hand and read them again.

I guess I can dream that one light will fit all my needs or wants. But if it did, I wouldn't need to be on CPF, would I? Aren't we all looking for the holy grail, that perfect light, that special one that will finally satisfy our thirst and end this sickness. Hell, if the 120P was as good as so many said it was, it would be all over with this search. What fun could I have next week, looking for the next light.

I am going to keep this light. Its not perfect, but neither am I. I just am a bit anal about my flashlights and like them to look pretty. If its throw is lacking, I'll use this light indoors. It does have a very useful low, albeit a bit purple. Sometimes, I forget they aren't just to look at but to be used. In the dark using the light, will I even notice the blemished finish?

As a postscript, I do have a SF L1, and I do love that light. It is extremely well made, and the output is fantastic. I like its wide hotspot and focused, creamy warm beam. However, it is just a bit heavy to carry in a pocket as an EDC, and its 10 lumen low is a bit high. I wish it had a clip like the one on the E1B that allow you to carry the light with the bezel down. And if you say, why not try the E1B, because that has a 5 lumen low, I will tell you I did and hated the finicky clicky interface. So you see, every light seems to have its issues. It's just big conspiracy to get you to keep buying more.

Cuso · Mar 19, 2008

Remember this lights are Seoul based, not made for throw..Any Cree light will smoke it in that department. One of my Novas has the TIR optic mod dubbed "Supernova" by Master Milky, if you want throw this is the option for you. Im still to see any wear on any of them , but they ride in leather holsters so they are protected.. On the beam department , I find it great like any other beam with a OP and Seoul led, the early ones had problems with misaligned reflectors but that has been fixed.. I love my Novas, but if you dislike it, Im sure you will find someone in the B/S/T forums that will. If that black Nova of mine get one single chip on it, its getting the Drano/polish treatment :devil:

jzmtl · Mar 19, 2008

Drano treatment?

Cuso · Mar 19, 2008

jzmtl said:
Drano treatment?

Yeah, Its what I and other polishing freaks use to remove Anodizing in lights...

jzmtl · Mar 20, 2008

Huh, didn't know that works. I'll have to remember that.

precisionworks · Mar 20, 2008

Drano treatment?

Anodizing can be removed by any strong (30%) solution of sodium hydroxide.

CAUTION: NaOH (sodium hydroxide) is extremely corrosive. Handle it with care. Wear protective gloves, an apron, and eyewear. Avoid contact with skin or clothing.

CAUTION: A large amount of heat will be evolved after you mix the NaOH with water, especially if you mix a small amount of water with a large amount of chemical. Do not handle the continer until it has cooled.

If these cautions are unclear, have your parts stripped by a professional.

The Porcupine · Mar 20, 2008

I have a black 120T. I used it with the supplied clip for a week, then switched to one of Bug's lanyard rings instead. I haven't seen any evidende of wear on my own from the clip, but a coating that's between to metal objects - flashlight budy and clip - will wear, no matter how hard it may be.
If I could have one change added to the Novatacs, it would be that the clip stayed in one place! The rotating clip, will eventually wear the anodizing.

Apart from that, the beam on mine is as close to my personal idea of perfection as any light I have ever owned.
It's not perfect for everything, though. For throw and spotting stuff at a distance, my SF L1 and E1B are much better, but I think it's hard to get everything in one light.

The tints on my 120 and olive finished 120E are slightly to the purple side. Doesn't bother me at all.

nanotech17 · Mar 20, 2008

i have a perfect tint (cool white) in my black 120T and the HAIII is as tough as any other flashlight with that coating that i owned.
To me the beam on my tint reminds me of my friend's McGizmo Ti PDS which is perfect for a SSC P4 LED.
Too bad that you have an issue with your coating.
I have replace my lens with a minimag UCL which is fit and now i gained at least 20% output base on my naked eyes observation.
This black baby is a keeper in my palm most of the time

The rest (modded L1 cree/P1D CE Q5 Leefbody/P2D RB100/Inova 2008 T1) are in my pouch ready anytime for backup

Novatac Concerns - Please Don't Shoot Me!

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