What's on the horizon Novatac, Surefire, etc.?

Hope this isn't too stupid of a question.

I recently asked for opinions on small bright US made lights. Novatac, Surefire E1B, etc. were recommended.

I actually picked up an L1 because that was the best available in town and I wanted to handle the light to see if I liked it.

Bottom line, I like the L1 but there are certainly some things I don't like. Most of which is no rechargeables.

So what's on the horizon in the next 3-6 months? Of course nobody has a crystal ball, but I figure the flashlight nuts here might have a handle on what's going on.

I figure maybe I could pick up an Arc AAA in the meantime and return the L1 or sell it on BST until something sparkly comes out.

I'm aware of the Ra, but it doesn't have a clip. I'm also aware of the Arc LS, but it's likely to be too expensive for me to have any interest.

Specifically I'm looking for thoughts on what Novatac might be up to, or if there's any earthly chance that Surefire will see the light and start making lights that accept rcr's.

Pure speculation to follow:

Novatac. They lost the chief engineer/designer. I don't expect much from them anytime soon except for finding ways to produce the lights cheaper and possible LED upgrades as better emitters come out.

There has been minor differences reported between the black Novatacs and the older olive/pewter Novatacs. One is that the knurling is more aggressive on the black ones. There is one initial report from a CPFer that the anodize on the black one isn't as durable as type III would suggest.

The more aggressive knurling could be explained by a design change as a result of feedback from customers. I know that my HDS is less slippery than my olive Novatac. Or it could be a random manufacturing variation in which a lot got a deeper knurl.

Or it could be that Novatac has switched their manufacturing contractor.

Again, pure speculation:

I wonder if Novatac is trying to maximize profits by

1: cut back on R&D (they have lost Henry)
2: increase pricing (the software is the only real difference, aside from the tactical tailcap)
3: reduce manufacturing cost. Find other competitive shops to manufacture your machined and anodized parts.

Let me be clear, just because a company changes subcontractors, doesn't mean that the quality is less.

Don't have any guesses for SureFire.

Surefire has the E1L 2 stages that is all regarding small lights.

If you wanted rechargeables maybe you should have gone with Novatac. I'm all for rechargeables, but in a single cell light I actually prefer primaries. I can afford primaries for a single cell, and you get longer runtime.

Will we see anything new from Surefire for 08? I doubt it since all the 08 lights have been revealed.

I don't understand why Surefire hasn't upgraded their LED's. I want brighter and longer run times for the Surefire.

snakyjake said:

I don't understand why Surefire hasn't upgraded their LED's. I want brighter and longer run times for the Surefire.

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Did you look at the new versions of the E1L? Or the E2L? Or the L1? Did you check out the E1B?

Seriously, there are quite a few things you can complain about, but not about Surefire not upgrading their LEDs. 'Cause they did.

Hans

Surefire is hard at work upgrading their lights as well as creating new very bright lights.
The E1B "backup" is a great example of a new design using the latest emitters from Cree (bin unknown)
Surefire plans on releasing a light with the Seoul P7 emitter a monster multi die emitter able to produce 200 -400 lumen's. This should keep most manufactures busy keeping up. The P7 is like the LUX V in that the LUX V put together 4 1 watt emitters to create a 5 watt emitter. the P7? I don't know what it is putting together but it is a powerful multicore emitter.


I suspect we will be seeing more and brighter lights from the bright minds at surefire RA as well as Novatac. Henry isn't the only flashlight designer on the block. Hell imagine a company like Novatac hiring a guy like Don or Larry or any one of a number of brilliant minds here on the CPF.
I wouldn't count NovaTac out..yet.
yaesumofo

shakey jake said:

I don't understand why Surefire hasn't upgraded their Lead. I want brighter and longer run times for the Surefire.

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I hope SF is not done with their releases for '08. The funky UI's they have released so far are not for me. Where is an upgraded L2 and L4? No choice but to just keep waiting...

yaesumofo said:

I suspect we will be seeing more and brighter lights from the bright minds at surefire RA as well as Novatac. Henry isn't the only flashlight designer on the block. Hell imagine a company like Novatac hiring a guy like Don or Larry or any one of a number of brilliant minds here on the CPF.
I wouldn't count NovaTac out..yet.
yaesumofo

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Henry designed the whole light. Don and Larry can do body and some electronics but I haven't seen them do a full driver and UI development. You'd to add Wayne to the list with them to get a complete light that's got the same feature set as the old HDS, Arc4 or Novatac.

+1
HDS :rock:Novatac :thumbsdow

tebore said:

Henry designed the whole light. Don and Larry can do body and some electronics but I haven't seen them do a full driver and UI development. You'd to add Wayne to the list with them to get a complete light that's got the same feature set as the old HDS, Arc4 or Novatac.

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Hans said:

Did you look at the new versions of the E1L? Or the E2L? Or the L1? Did you check out the E1B?

Seriously, there are quite a few things you can complain about, but not about Surefire not upgrading their LEDs. 'Cause they did.

Hans

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Yes, I've checked out Surefire's new additions, but their specs are still behind the competition. I decided to buy Fenix. I'd like to buy a 6P, but not until they upgrade their light.

I just figured Surefire would have been a leader, but now they're playing catch up. I would have expected Surefire to catch up a lot quicker too.

snakyjake said:

Yes, I've checked out Surefire's new additions, but their specs are still behind the competition. I decided to buy Fenix. I'd like to buy a 6P, but not until they upgrade their light.

I just figured Surefire would have been a leader, but now they're playing catch up. I would have expected Surefire to catch up a lot quicker too.

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The spec you are talking about is nothing more than design decisions. All you need to do for more light is to pump more current through the emitter and I'm sure SF can figure it out if they wanted to.

Let's not bash SF. They will not compromise on quality. The purpose of a light is to put out light, not just lumens. SF, while not the lumen leader in a EDC light, still puts out one of the best beams there is, both with its shape and color. Furthermore, they offer a wide choice of styles for different tastes and needs, unlike some manufacturers who have the same basic emitter with different power supplies. The build quality of SF has stood the test of time and abuse. Other new manufacturers still have to prove themselves. They may, but that will take time.

snakyjake, the 6P can be configured many ways. The advantage of SF is the lego. If you don't like a stock SF, you can change it. You can get the 6PD, 6PDL, 6P in red, whi, blue. There are grip rings, filters, clicky tailcaps, p60 led lamps, a19 adapters.

I don't want to start a Fenix vs. surefire war by any means, so.

Fenix builds a nice light from what I have seen, lots of options and reasonably priced. The thing is they list the total output, Surefire list out front output, this is something it took me a while to get as well.
I have been reading more and more problems with the cheaper lights from China having regulation problems because they are trying to drive them as high as they can.
It seems Fenix has been pretty good at being conservative to feed our needs/wants. S/F is being extra cautious so they have a product that still works in ten years.
Both have their merits, both are good lights in their perspective price ranges. Thats where the focus seems to get lost!:twothumbs

Edit:

I hope either Henry or Novatac is able to pick up the pieces and carry on with the EDC line of lights!! There are just too many good things about them to let this design die!!! I can only imagine what the next gen would be capable of!!!

This shows how Fenix marketing works.

snakyjake said:

Yes, I've checked out Surefire's new additions, but their specs are still behind the competition. I decided to buy Fenix. I'd like to buy a 6P, but not until they upgrade their light.

I just figured Surefire would have been a leader, but now they're playing catch up. I would have expected Surefire to catch up a lot quicker too.

Click to expand...

snakyjake said:

I just figured Surefire would have been a leader, but now they're playing catch up. I would have expected Surefire to catch up a lot quicker too.

Click to expand...

Supposedly a P61L LED drop in is on the way that will output 200 lumens, but it sounds like it has thermal management like the P60L, so it may drop in output as the module warms up. I'm not surprised SF has been behind with releasing higher output LED's. They aren't going to grab the latest and greatest LED, drive it hard, and sell it to people who may need it to save their life, etc. They have probably been testing the LED's to make sure they will hold up at higher drive currents and only until they are satisfied with their performance will they sell them to their customers.

Not really in this case. Right now they are using exactly the same technology, both use the same cree emitter (or ssc in some SF, but ssc use cree die anyway). The only difference is drive current, which IMO is purely a design decision and has nothing to do with cutting edge.