Has SUREFIRE missed a Market opportunity?

A recent thread I read here has me thinking, because they described the characteristics of a Survival flashlight, which I realized is my ideal EDC.

The problem is the closest light that fits it is made by FENIX, instead of a company I have come to recognize as the PREMIER American manufacture of bullet-proof flashlight manufacturer - Surefire.

I've purchased five Fenix lights so far. LOP's L1P's and L2D's all have served well, but I just don't have the same warm and fuzzy feelings that I've always had with Surefire.

Yes, I will admit I am very prejudiced toward Surefire lights. I own well over $1500 worth of Surefire's that I've purchased over the years! Make no mistake I am a died-in-the-wool Surefire supporter.

So what is that light that I so covent, after 30 years of searching?

First of All;

*LED emitter (white or yellow tint is fine, no BLUE tint)
*Powered from a single AA cell (Alkaline, Energizer Lithium or NiMh rechargable) this is a MUST and a deal killer.
*Small & Light form factor
*Dual output (at a minimum dual output less than or equal to 5 lumen & equal to or great than 50 lumen)
*Minimum runtime at low output of of 5 lumens of 20hrs
*Fairly wide beam with a decent hotspot. OK, wide spread in this application beats a thrower.

And here is the kicker in this deal...a light with a quality that I feel I can trust my life on!

I've always felt that with Surefires, I've never felt that with Fenix. But Fenix your doing a damm fine job!

So Surefire are you up to the task?

its my understanding that surefire suites itself toward military / Law enforcement / rescue more than anything else so it would probably hurt them more to release a non-CR123 light than design a light to those specifications.

Quartermasters that provide flashlights to people cant be bothered to keep track of who has what light and what batteries they need, they just provide CR123A's which last longer in storage and provide a higher voltage allowing for a brighter light.

While I would embrace a AA SF, I dont see it happening sorry, not enough of a market for the hassle. (us CPF'ers make up a rather small % of the flashlight market methinks)

Doug Ritter of www.equipped.org consideres them "pocket searchlights", and interestingly, he EDCs a photon freedom microlight, his own yellow version...

Surefire certainly has missed a market oppotunity, they arent crying about it though...thier market share otherwise is of the chart anyway..

my absolute minimalist light to EDC for them kinda situations would be an ARC-P....although i would carry my fenix too for Strobe and SOS..

Crenshaw

I thought they had a cree version of the L1 or E1E that had 1 low mode, and that was it, now I can't find it on their site. A SIMPLE (read: single mode) to operate relatively low output light with tons of runtime IMO meets a "survival" standpoint need. Seeing that it is gone, it appears to me that they had something in this market, but bailed on it for whatever reason.

Jerb said:

its my understanding that surefire suites itself toward military / Law enforcement / rescue more than anything else so it would probably hurt them more to release a non-CR123 light than design a light to those specifications.

Quartermasters that provide flashlights to people cant be bothered to keep track of who has what light and what batteries they need, they just provide CR123A's which last longer in storage and provide a higher voltage allowing for a brighter light.

While I would embrace a AA SF, I dont see it happening sorry, not enough of a market for the hassle. (us CPF'ers make up a rather small % of the flashlight market methinks)

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I would have to agree with what you are saying here. As a guy with a bachelors in marketing, Im commonly asking questions like: What business are they in??? And the question here is, is surefire in the flashlight business or are they in the tactical equipment business? That is a good question in my opinion. You look at their core competency and its definitely their flashlight body design. I am not sure but they may outsource their bulbs and their batteries. More than likely they do.

If we put surefire in the tactical equipment business, we probably will never see a aaa, aa, c, or d flashlight from them.

I would really like to see one in my personal opinion, i think it would be innovative.

Allburger- Very good point. I think you nailed it right on. They are clearly geared towards the "tactical" scene in my opinion. They often use the scare tactic to sell their products- bullet vs flashlight, stranger vs flashlight, wildlife vs flashlight, etc.

Here's an idea that no one has brought up yet... What if SF made a new division. Imagine SF is to Lexus, as _____ is to Toyota. They could use the same technology, quality control, and engineering, but produce a more cost effective (read: less marketing) product geared towards LAY people.

Alkalines just don't have the energy density nor shelve-life or temperature tolerance.


Not everyone is going to take the time to play with rechargeables.


think about it this way, how many people do you know bring their own bottle of home-filtered water or bring their own lunch. now, yes it would be more economical but it's more time consuming.

Now if you live the lifestyle that is time-sensitive (you take down bad guys for a living), you just don't have time to play around with rechargeables.

wouldnt it be funny if after years and years,we find out that fenix is actually the non tactical/ high powered LED wing of surefire....



Crenshaw

Supernam said:

Allburger- Very good point. I think you nailed it right on. They are clearly geared towards the "tactical" scene in my opinion. They often use the scare tactic to sell their products- bullet vs flashlight, stranger vs flashlight, wildlife vs flashlight, etc.

Here's an idea that no one has brought up yet... What if SF made a new division. Imagine SF is to Lexus, as _____ is to Toyota. They could use the same technology, quality control, and engineering, but produce a more cost effective (read: less marketing) product geared towards LAY people.

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scare tactic?

LOL

HMM, maybe car manufacturers should stop showing videos of crash test on commercials because you know it's a "scare tactic". Let's totally ignore crash test rating and reliability and just focus on mileage...

heck, someone just needs to make a 2xAA tube for the E-series and use a KX1 and Z57 tailcap, best of both worlds

I have doubts about it being a wise business decision for Surefire to produce a 1xAA light. In fact, I'm sure they've considered it (only a really dumb company would blindly ignore potential markets) and have come to the conclusion that it wouldn't be profitable.

You can break down the market division into 2 catagories:

1. People who need a professional of the highest standards, with 2ndary consideration to cost.

2. People who want an inexpensive light that uses easy-to-find, inexpensive batteries.

Surefire's problem would be that there's very little overlap between these groups (namely, us). Type 1 people are LEOs, military, security personnel, armed civilians, etc. You're spending $100+ on a flashlight, how can you cry about battery cost? Especially when these lights need these batteries to be at peak performance. Type 2 people probably won't want to spend that much on a flashlight. That's why Fenix does so well with their AA/AAA powered lights.

It's like wanting Ferrari to make $100k sports car that runs on 87 octane and gets 35mpg. It ain't gonna happen.

Which is a shame, because if Surefire made a 1xAA flashlight, I'd probably buy one. So would a lot of us CPFers. But not many other people would. I'd wager that if they ever did make a 1xAA or 1xAAA light, it'd be a Nitrolon bodied, survival/emergency/back-up oriented, pocket/keychain light. There'd be no incentive for them to make a top-quality, high performance 1xAA light. Not when they have 1xCR123A lights that already fit the size bill. I'd have even more doubts about a 2xAA light, since that'd be a much larger/longer light than a 1xCR123A with the same power, and Surefire practically invented the concept of maximum brightness in the smallest possible package. 6P vs 4D M@g anyone?

My first impulse after coming across this new flashlight field, was GET IT... the T1 i.e. and then figure how many reserve CR123s I can carry along and then, get a modest amount of RCR123s that would make the bulk of a reserve pack lasting the time while flashing out there.

My next concern is, GET a more intense and powerful flashlight that also utilizes the CR123 batteries and also, a befitting holster just to house in at least 20 batteries, 8x CR123s and 12x RCR123s for the road! Perhaps 2 holsters then to pack in 10x in each and that wouldn't protrude beyond discomfort around the waistbelt.

I'm working on it now, having a local tailor customize a holster to easily slide in and out the batteries with the same design holster that came with the Fenix T1 and using velcro to cover it over.

Should any of you have serious interests in getting a customized holster, let me know so a collective amount after the prototype model is created and approved, can mean a savings for us in this Forum.

I still have not earned myself enough posts to add a signature pic of my T1, so here's my latest and only set-up since two weeks ago.

They decided that the CR123 is the batt of choice for most all their lights ... same here, makes it easy to find the right batt to fit any light, when they all use 123

Gotta love these Mall Survivalist's threads...

I thought Survivorman didn't have a flashlight or did he :shrug:

Outdoors Fanatic said:

Gotta love these Mall Survivalist's threads...

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I remember one of those survival guys using a minimag to set steel wool on fire. I forget which one it was.

*Powered from a single AA cell (Alkaline, Energizer Lithium or NiMh rechargable) this is a MUST and a deal killer.

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...oh man, not ANOTHER debate on this topic!?!?




...punching out!

MSax

Msax, Planterz

Congrats on at least reading my post and commenting on even one of the points I made..

Several posts here are so far off the point I was trying to make I don't think they were commenting on the same thread.

oh well

I think some of the posts wandered a little bit because the original question dealt with a "marketing opportunity" If the topic is limited to your personal ideal light, then the answer is no. Surefire has not missed an opportunity by not making the light that one individual thinks is best. If you expand the question to: Should Surefire consider a single AA light that might appeal to a bunch of people, the answer will be different. Certainly there is a market for expensive ( my definition is over 25 bucks ) single AA ( or AAA ) lights. It seems like most people here have multiple versions of that light. Granted, a light has to appeal to normal people as well as light nuts and it may be that Surefire would rather sell more M6's at 400 bucks than try to fight a price war with Fennix or Tiablo at the $40 price level. They may have decided to grow their market upscale instead of downscale, and just conceded the single cell alkaline market to others.

I think some of the posts wandered a little bit because the original question dealt with a "marketing opportunity" If the topic is limited to your personal ideal light, then the answer is no. Surefire has not missed an opportunity by not making the light that one individual thinks is best. If you expand the question to: Should Surefire consider a single AA light that might appeal to a bunch of people, the answer will be different. Certainly there is a market for expensive ( my definition is over 25 bucks ) single AA ( or AAA ) lights. It seems like most people here have multiple versions of that light. Granted, a light has to appeal to normal people as well as light nuts and it may be that Surefire would rather sell more M6's at 400 bucks than try to fight a price war with Fennix or Tiablo at the $40 price level. They may have decided to grow their market upscale instead of downscale, and just conceded the single cell alkaline market to others.

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Excellent points, well said.

Congrats on at least reading my post and commenting on even one of the points I made..

Several posts here are so far off the point I was trying to make I don't think they were commenting on the same thread.

oh well

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Double_A,

Please don't be offended (although I kindof am at the tone of your response), that's not my intention at all. I DID read your post, in its entirety and understood exactly what you were indicating very clearly. But I choose not to comment on the other factors you are looking for in the ultimate survival light because you posted in your list of qualifications that the light must be.....

*Powered from a single AA cell (Alkaline, Energizer Lithium or NiMh rechargable) this is a MUST and a deal killer.

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Well if that in fact is the attribute that is an absolute "must and a deal killer", then it is only logically that the discussion starts there. The simple fact is, if its a "must and a deal killer" then a Surefire solution isn't for you, because they aren't going to make one. Which brings me back to my first point...




The topic has been discussed to death. But if you can look beyond a AA platform, I think you will find that Surefire either has multiple options that could sortof fall into your survial light concept, or maybe they have something that could be adapted to that concept in the pipeline.... sounds kindof like the Al Titan?!?!?!

...just a reminder, we're all friends here. I know Crenshaw is on your side.

Crenshaw and I are old rivals on this topic. :wave:

MSax