Full range speakers vs. Satellite set-ups

geepondy

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Tell if I'm just being old-fashioned or not. Nowadays satellite speaker systems appear to be the norm with tiny tweeters mated to a big subwoofer. Ten, twenty years ago these systems were much less common and you had full range, albeit big, speakers with 12-18" woofers, 6-8" midrange speakers and small tweeters all contained in each speaker assembly along with the proper cross over electronics. It seems to me that these speakers did a much better job at defining the sound and provided a much more "real" truer to original form sound. What do you guys think?
 

Darell

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My favorite setup is to contain the tweeters and midrange in a satellite cabinet, and let the woof and sub information come from a box that is meant for that purpose.

Now you have to understand that I have dual 15" subs powered by a 1200W high-current Amp. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

There are some single-enclosure speakers that sound better than my setup, but not for less than about twice the money. That's what it came down to for me. For thousands more, I probably could have gotten better sound from single enclosures, but I wasn't willing to go there.

I use PSB Minis for my satellites (four of them for 5.1 surround) and a Mirage Sub.
 

Alan Hsu

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As an audio- and videophile in addition to flasholic, I agree that full-range speakers (most are not exactly full range according to audiophile standard, which means they can't do 20Hz well) often sound more coherent than tiny satellite speakers with subwoofer. The key problem is that the crossover frequency between satellites and subwoofer is so high that listeners sense not all the sounds that are supposed to come from the same direction doesn't do so since proper integration between main and satellite speakers have always been a issue, even with the best audio gear. Though www.audioasylum.com and www.avsforum.com may be better places to discuss such subject.
 

Sigman

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Downstairs in the family room, I have my Kenwoods (main "A" speakers 4-way, 6 speakers w/12" woofers), added Bose surround center, left rear, & right rear speakers , coupled to a Kenwood THX surround sound amp...sounds great!

Upstairs in my living room I have the tiny Bose speakers all around for my main "A" set, center, left rear & right rear. Active Kenwood subwoofer (as well as the passive Bose subwoofers) all hooked into a Kenwood THX surround sound amp.

Though the sound downstairs is great...the sound upstairs is REALLY GREAT! I love the way you can aim the little Bose speakers for direct and indirect sound. When sitting on the sofa listening to music or a DVD...close the eyes and the sounds just envelop the listener.

Of course room acoustics have a major role in this, but if I had to pick one system for my house, it would be the one I have set up in the living room.

The larger Kenwoods are like pieces of furniture, whereas the little Bose satellites can hardly be seen and put out so much sound!
 

darkgear.com

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Sat-sub systems are more than enough for 99% of everyone out there. I have Klipsch 5.1 for my computer. I have Infinity Modulus on bedroom home stereo. Heh, even Polk Momo's in the car. I worked at, at the time, the only factory Bose store in the world in Hawaii after high school and even met Dr. Bose a couple of times. BUT I also hung around people that listened to wire (you audiophiles know what I'm talking about).

I have installed and listened to speakers that cost a lot of money like Thiel, Magnepan, Carver Ultimates, and all the brands I own now. I even got to go to one of Paul McCartney's homes on Phoenix to listen to the Infinity Reference V's he had installed in his studio. For those of you who do not know what those are hrmm.. well the price went up $10,000 one year just because Kapton, the rare earth material used in the drivers, went up in price. They typically sold for $45-50K.

Getting to the point, For the best sound reproduction (besides binaural) full range cabinets still beat sat-sub systems. Even the best sat-sub system have holes in the sound, including ones that have electronic compensation. Now let me quantify this by saying that I'm taking about high end audio. If you talk about less than $2K heck buy Klipsch Promedia "computer speakers", It'll knock you socks off :p

For non-audiophile(read non-flashaholic equivalent) use Sat-sub setups are very good. But if I really want to listen to something and escape I still go to my Klipschorns.

Best regards,
Randy
 

Skyline

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I'm also a believer in "full" range speakers. Satellites/sub setups require the sub to produce frequencies that are too high to be truly non-directional.

My setup includes the Paradigm Monitor 9 fronts (dual 8" woofers, 1" tweeter), CC-350 center (dual 6.5" woofers, 1" tweeter), Monitor 3 rears (8" woofer, 1" tweeter), and Paradigm Reference Servo-15 sub (15"). I don't regret going "full" range at all. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

(I quoted "full" because there are few speakers that are truly full-range, capable of producing 15hz-20000hz.)
 

darkgear.com

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Oh, but wait! Check the specs on those cheapo speakers at wal-mart 20-20K and they handle 400Watts! OMG!

Heh sorry, after working with audio equipment all my life that's just one of my pet peeves :p

Best regards,
Randy
 

darkgear.com

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Found a pic of the IRS V.

irs.jpg


7.5 feet tall and definitely "full" range /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 

itsme1234

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Remember Kodak and APS ? At some point a "genius" decided that most people don't enlarge pictures, so they need only about 50% from a normal 35 mm film. And they invented APS, so you could buy about half the film for the same (or more) money.
The same with speakers. At some point somebody decided that humans can't perceive the direction for low freq. So one subwoofer should be enough. Welcome to 2+1 systems, cheaper to produce, about the same output (but _not_ the same) and usually no cheaper than a similar regular "stereo" setup!
And after that they come with 4+1 setup, then 5+1, then 7+1. Or Dolby 5+1 (7+1) for normal stereo headphones ! Come on, we only have 2 ears !
Anyway, at the 5+1 point I gave up. I have no-name speakers for computer, home cinema, etc. (but wood only, no plastic). They are used WAY under their capabilities (close neighbors), so I have more than decent sound. For HI-FI I have my Sennheiser control HD270 (closed headphones). They have a nearly flat answer for 12 Hz-22kHz; I know I can't afford a similar speaker system, and more important, a good place to put it.
 
D

**DONOTDELETE**

Guest
That's why I got a sat-sub system 30 years ago; cheaper and you can hear, and feel, all the notes.. the sats (the cylindrical JR-149's - improved offshoot of the legendary Jim Roger's British BBC's LS3-5A's speakers, reknowned for classical violin accuracy) have large enough midranges so that the subwoofer (M&K single 10" woofer) doesn't have to play too high..it's all hooked up to a RAM 200 watt amp -- all old components but lovely sound last time I heard them 8 years ago when they went into storage - I'll be hearing them again when the house is built..
Yet, still, the best sound I ever heard was from a pair of AR 3a's, people used to come around to my dorm room thinking there was live music being played..
The gigantic Klipsch Voice of the Theater speaker are amazing too, and play so incredibly loud with just 5 watts or so of power! A friend had a pair hanging from the ceiling - awesome. It was funny how just a puny little amp was more than sufficient to power those monsters..
I haven't been following every issue of Audio or Stereophile, so I've lost touch with the latest technology -- so what is the latest and greatest sound out there today? Any new technologies I haven't heard of? (please keep it to under a couple thou for the speakers, if I can't afford it, it doesn't count /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif )
 

Charles Bradshaw

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Currently, I am using midiland with sub and 2 sats on my computer. They give me full enough response. Same with the speakers (amplified) for my 5 CD player, and the sharper image CD/radio (vertical CD) that I have. Full range to me, is enough frequency response to distinguish all of the instruments, particularly the percussion. The junk that you find in common retail stereos (shelf or boombox) has a lower limit of about 150 Hz (you know there is percussion, but not what instruments). This probably doesn't matter to most rockers, but, it does matter to those who like Classical and New Age music, like I do.

As to what you guys are talking about, I go with what I can afford, that meets my freq response criteria, at the time I am going to buy. After that, I don't have to think about it.
 

binky

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My ears have always voted for the full speakers because the satellite setups lose in the mid range. I like great midrange because that's where speach and other regular life-like sounds are. Plus, highs are so easy to get right that any setup will probably give you decent tweeting. If there's a satellite that gives you a dedicated set of speakers for midrange too, then maybe it'd be okay for sound, but then you've just set up 5 or 6 boxes around the room instead of 2 or 3(if subwoofer), so again my vote goes to the full speakers.
 

The_LED_Museum

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I vote for full sized regular speakers too.
With tiny satellites and a subwoofer, you're definitely missing the midrange, where most of the vocals and instruments are.

I have a 5-speaker system on my computer, a few REALLY BIG JVC boomboxes, and a good sized "bookshelf" stereo; and I think the computer stereo system beats them all. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Of course I can't turn it up too loud, or the neighbors will pound on their floors, ceilings, and walls with toliet plunger handles or broomsticks. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif
Then again, playing 1980s video game music or Kraftwerk CDs on the thing probably doesn't help matters. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 

PlayboyJoeShmoe

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KRAFTWERK = COOL!!!!

Here in front of me at home are two "Labtec" powered speakers hooked to my 'puter. Could be better, but does pretty much what I want them to do.

My home theater consists of a first or maybe second gen Dolby reciever (Sony) feeding a Pair of Radio Shack full size speakers at least 20 years old, a Rat Shack center channel, and some decent Rat Shack surrounds over my shoulders.

Movies like Saving Private Ryan sound pretty darn good in there!

Anyhow, CHEAP plays here just fine. There ain't no way I'd pay High End prices!!!!
 
D

**DONOTDELETE**

Guest
satellites don't necessarily mean thin mid-range. as I posted above, if you buy a pair of speakers anything like the JR's (or todays equivalents - what would they be? - Kefs maybe?) to go with your subwoofer, you'll have one of the most accurate mid-ranges ever produced..
history of JRs and other small highly accurate midrange speakers;

http://www.b52wood.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/jr%20ribben.htm

picture of Jim Rogers! - (met him at an Expo in New York, couldn't understand a word he said through that accent! Whelsh?)

http://www.b52wood.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/jr149-history5.htm
 

tiktok 22

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The_LED_Museum

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My roomie at the Juneau Receiving Home for several years in the late 1970s and early 1980s was an audiophile, and though I'm ashamed to admit it, I did learn a bit about amps & speakers from him. (He learned about LEDs, lasers, and scanners from me!)

From what I know, those tiny satellite speakers have trouble with the midrange, which is why I'd recommend "full sized" regular speakers with subwoofer if you're after true musical fidelity. But if you're looking for good quality satellite systems, the links in Tiktok's post are probably a good place to start.
 
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