Help me Understand Why SureFire are so Expensive

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xcel730

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Hello all,

Before I start, I just want to say that I am not bashing SureFire flashlights in any way. I'm new to this whole new flashlight world, and I currently don't own any SF, so I'm not even eligible to bash them. I just have an insatiable curiosity.

If someone could explain to me why SF flashlights are much more expensive than the competitors, even if "on paper" their performance seem to be worst. An example is the SF E2L model with 3/80 lumens cost about $129, while Fenix P3D Premium Q5 with 200 lumens cost about $68. I understand that the lumen rating from SF is from out the front while many other flashlight manufacturers lumen rating is from the emitter, and I understand that SF flashlights are built better, but does that factors in for twice the price? Is it simply because they do a darn good marketing job? Is it because of status symbol for those who own one? Again, if the reason is purely because of status symbol, I'm fine with that too. I, myself, own a couple of luxury watches that tells time no better than the watch that comes with your happy meal. Any insight would be helpful. Thanks guys!
 

swxb12

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Well for starters, it costs more to make a light in the US. I won't go into the performance aspect, though.
 

greenstuffs

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One is cheaply made without any creative design in a lowtech shop and the other is created in one of the country's best cnc facilities.
Your eyes can't really tell the difference between 80 Surefire lumens than the 160 chinese lumens because one is out the front and the other is at the emitter without taking into consideration the loss at the reflector, lense, heat.
Other than that like high end knives you will have to handle them to understand the value.
 

MrGman

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A: They believe in making a good profit on their product. They are in business to make money first and foremost.

B: You are basically paying the extra for the lifetime no questions asked warranty. If your flashlight breaks they will keep replacing it no matter what (from what I understand). So built into the price of every flashlight is at least one replacement, because they want their customers to be happy with a great product and great service for a lifetime. Not a bad philosophy in one respect.
 

mossyoak

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well it used to be that they were at the bleeding edge of technology. they arent any more.

it used to be because of their unbeatable and unmatched warranty. now there are other companies with the same "unlimited lifetime" warranty.

now they are clinging to their reputation- one that is becoming tanished by bad led tints, and worse clickies
 

rourtex23

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build quality is amazing i just got my first surefire L1 and i love it, very rugged and tough, no regrets at all about spending the extra cash
 

DaFABRICATA

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Welcome to CPF!

Lifetime warranty
Good Customer Service
Tough as Hell Products
Excellent R&D
Tons of interchangable parts
Quality machining
Supperb line-up, targeting different price ranges
Under rated Lumens
Fun to mod (but voids the guarantee)

I personally enjoy knowing I have a "Lifetime Guarantee" on my illumination tools. Most other tools I purchase also have this bonus and it helps make it easier to spend money on a product that I can count on to work and IF it does break, I'm not spending money to fix it.

Buy one and you will understand....
 

roymail

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Since you don't have one, why not start with a 6P. You can get one off of ebay for $37.00 + $5 shipping. The P60 drop-in is incandescent and is pretty bright for what it is. Then you will have your choice of an endless array of P60 type drop-ins that you read so much about here on CPF.

The 6P is almost indestructable... a very high quality light. Surefire doesn't have to be expensive but some of their lights are a bit costly. :grin2:
 

Federal LG

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Labour cost!

If they have a factory in China, or other country where the workers gain less money, probably the price will reduce. A lot.

Just see the difference between products made in USA, and the same product, of the same factory, but made in China, Malaysia, etc...
 

xcel730

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Since you don't have one, why not start with a 6P. You can get one off of ebay for $37.00 + $5 shipping. The P60 drop-in is incandescent and is pretty bright for what it is. Then you will have your choice of an endless array of P60 type drop-ins that you read so much about here on CPF.

The 6P is almost indestructable... a very high quality light. Surefire doesn't have to be expensive but some of their lights are a bit costly. :grin2:

I was thinking along the same page. From what I gather, it's one of those, "you have to handle it and see for yourself" type. I personally value high quality tools. I already got at Fenix L2D and L0D and from what I see, they're really good flashlights ... much better than what the average joe are willing to spend. The L0D is my EDC, the L2D is for my car, and I still need at least one more for home. This is why I'm toying with the idea of getting a SF. Thanks for the response guys. Any additional feedbacks are welcome.
 

Drywolf

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I love my U2 Ultra it does everything I need a flashlight to do. I might buy the UB2 later this year, as 400 lumens is just to good to pass up. I won't be selling my U2 or buying the UA2. I think the U2 is almost perfect.

:twothumbs:twothumbs
 

allburger

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It's all about supply and demand. People are willing to pay those prices for that product. What you are paying for with surefire is:
-The Surefire name
-Reliability
-Excellent Service

You gotta remember that customer service is not free by any stretch. On top of that, Surefire has to cover there fixed costs of day to day operations before they can think about making a profit on the light. In the fixed costs you have, research and development, marketing, and all the other stuff. And we can't forget that you gotta factor in transportation costs, warehousing costs, and all that other stuff.

In the end, you have a great light at a price that a large market are willing to pay for.
 

kramer5150

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... and they are made in California, not the cheapest state to set up mass production facilities. (Fountain valley is just down the 405 from Disneyland.) Environmental regulations, state taxes, health care benefits, electricity/utilities, gasoline prices, business/licensing fees... just a few just off the top of my head. I am not sure if they are a union shop, but either way they will pay a premium for machinists and tool operators in this state. Either your business pays union dues or you compensate your work force enough to offset the desire for them to join a union. I am not sure what minimum wage is in california... but I'm sure its better than most other states in the US.

Of course supply-demand rules the game. They aren't going to charge anything less than what the market will pay.

Tactical-weapon mount flashlights are a low volume / niche market product. So the only way to offset the cost of business is a high dollar unit price.

Personally I don't think the 6P is very expensive... when you consider the fact that it will last a lifetime and LED drop ins are getting cheaper all the time. I use my light at work. I don't want to deal with shoddy technical support. When/if my light does down I want to speak to someone in english who can overnight parts to me from ~300 miles away. Thats why I pay the premium for SF. For the record I am Chinese, and have nothing personal against overseas made products. I use a chinese DX drop in, but in the event that fails, I have a P60 and some primaries on stand by.
 
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stitch_paradox

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well it used to be that they were at the bleeding edge of technology. they arent any more.

it used to be because of their unbeatable and unmatched warranty. now there are other companies with the same "unlimited lifetime" warranty.

now they are clinging to their reputation- one that is becoming tanished by bad led tints, and worse clickies

You can't judge a flashlight company by LED alone. I still think they still have the best Incans in the world. They have a great lineup of LED lights coming out this year. And regarding those "unlimited lifetime" warranty offered by other companies, you have to consider this: Usually they don't fix the light but just replace it instead. Why do they do this? Because it is easier to do and much cheaper in the long run. Their lights are mass produced with inexpensive materials and cheap labor, plus it's appealing to the costumers. Instead of getting a refurbished light they get a brand new light sounds great isn't it? Where as with Surefire, when a light is returned to be fixed, the company is paying a qualified technician to inspect the light, replace it with top quality materials, (military grade I must say) etc. All of these process are giving America jobs.
 
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stitch_paradox

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well it used to be that they were at the bleeding edge of technology. they arent any more.

it used to be because of their unbeatable and unmatched warranty. now there are other companies with the same "unlimited lifetime" warranty.

now they are clinging to their reputation- one that is becoming tanished by bad led tints, and worse clickies


You just did
 

asdalton

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It's a combination of quality, performance, warranty (which means something more when the company has been around for decades), and general brand reputation. But it comes down to people simply being willing, for whatever reasons, to pay Surefire prices.

People are free to disagree and vote with their wallets, of course. I have many Surefire lights, but I never thought that the U2 was worth $270. That's why I bought mine for $190 used. :D
 

I came to the light...

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labor costs make a huge difference. but not SF's price difference - at least part of that is for the name.

And if you want to know why you should pay extra money that isn't necessarily quality cost, there's really only one reason: the "feel" is so good it has amassed what some call an army here. build quality is excellent, but is equaled by several cheaper and brighter (lumens) companies.

in terms of lumen ratings, people exagerate other companies' dishonesty. SF rates lumens out the front and very accurately. most other companies rate at the emitter, and some exaggerate far beyond that. But many others do not: Fenix's measurements tend to be only about 10-20% higher than actual output. To finish this, to compare real output between an E2L and P2D, take 80 lumens, advertised, for the SF, and 150 for the Fenix. The Fenix is still far brighter.


Another possible reason for the overpricing is that SF is the only top-notch military supplier. Meaning, if you want a light designed to be used in combat, SF is the only company completely dedicated to that.
 
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