Peter may be moving on to other things.

According to this post that I came across Peter may be cutting his ties with the Arc brand and the company that manufactures the ARC lights.

Good luck Peter and remember its not the final destination that counts..its the journey. I hope you find contentment, happiness and prosperity in whatever you end up doing.

http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showpost.php?p=2144398&postcount=12

The post and its responses are very sad to read.

I am dissapointed with the new GS.

However, I still believe ARC and Peter offered us what most other companies have not.

I hope this is just some growing pains that will be corrected and passed.

I don't like making a stink about my ARC GS, but if anyone has issues, we should let everyone know about them and be loud and clear about it. This way the new company will hopefully take notice and take action to improve QC, etc. They won't change their ways if they think they can get away with the way they are currently doing things. We shouldn't let them get away with ruining the ARC's quality.

This is not the first time CPF'er This_is_Nascar has complained about Arc. If you search the archives, you will see a long list of complaints from him. And I agree that he is usually right about what he is complaining about if not a bit harsh sometimes.

His complaint was about the LED protruding from the head and the delay in getting a refund. My post didn't really resolve his issue and it introduced some speculation that may have been premature for me to mention.

The truth is that I can't really resolve Nascar's issue on my own. I can call CIS and prod/help them but it is ultimately CIS that is responsible for the quality of the product and the customer service that goes with it.

Although I represent the product on the CPF, I am not responsible for customer service at CIS. I did train them and I do still help them from time to time. They answer phone calls, emails, warranty issues, etc. With sales up, they are now busier than ever. I have seen emails get behind by several weeks and some of the more complicated issues take longer than expected to resolve. Overall however, most customers are having a positive experience.

This is not the first time in the past 8 years we have received a post in the jeer forum. Not the first time we have had quality issues with the product. Why have people stuck with the product all these years then? Because most people have had a great experience. I just received an email this week from someone saying our products are too durable, they still have the original AAA and LS from years ago and use them on a regular basis.

The new Arc-AAA GS is a distinct and valuable product and I recommend it for people looking for a durable flashlight they can depend on.

As to the issue of where I am going, when, etc. I do not know. You guys have known that I didn't plan on having flashlights be my main focus for the rest of my life. I am "type cast" though and the best offers I am receiving are in the flashlight industry. Even so, I would like to get into another field, say Cognitive Computing. Whatever the future holds however, I want to finish the Arc6 if possible, even though I am missing out on better offers to do so.

I think what people really want to know is, will they continue to be able to buy the AAA and get service on it. They also want to know if the Arc6 will also be available and supported. Will customer service remain unchanged, get worse, get better, etc. Just as with any company or product, CIS will likely continue to make and support these products as long as it is profitable to do so. I can see this continuing for years to come.


Back to customer service and quality... If you have a problem, send an email. If the email takes longer than 1 week to be responded to, then send another email about your discomfort with the delay. Give them a call at 602-269-2301. Ask to talk to Maria, she is the main customer service person.

If there are enough people complaining about the delays in customer service, I can take this to the owners and recommend they hire more staff.

As far as the original issue of the LED protruding from the head of the GS, I am already working on that with the machinist. I have given him dimensions to follow and it is up to him to get the machine setup for that. I imagine it will take a week or two (he works part time).

If you think that these proposed efforts are insufficient. Tell what you think in this thread.

peter

In light of e-mail delays wouldn't a phone call be more efficient?
I am sure, that should I have a problem with an ARC product, I will utilize the telephone before e-mail as a tool to resolve the matter.

The same is true BTW with companies like Surefire.
Telephone works better than e-mail.
Wouldn't you think that if they(arc) become overwhelmed by telephone calls the need to add support personal would become more obvious much more quickly than allowing e-mails to stack up unread.

Use your heads guys.
Yaesumofo

Gransee said:

This is not the first time Cpfr This_is_Nascar has complained about Arc. If you search the archives, you will see a long list of complaints from him. And I agree that he is usually right about what he is complaining about if not a bit harsh sometimes.

His complaint was about the LED protruding from the head and the delay in getting a refund. My post didn't really resolve his issue and it introduced some speculation that may have been premature for me to mention.

The truth is that I can't really resolve Nascar's issue on my own. I can call CIS and prod/help them but it is ultimately CIS that is responsible for the quality of the product and the customer service that goes with it.

Although I represent the product on the CPF, I am not responsible for customer service at CIS. I did train them and I do still help them from time to time. They answer phone calls, emails, warranty issues, etc. With sales up, they are now busier than ever. I have seen emails get behind by several weeks and some of the more complicated issues take longer than expected to resolve. Overall however, most customers are having a positive experience.

This is not the first time in the past 8 years we have received a post in the jeer forum. Not the first time we have had quality issues with the product. Why have people stuck with the product all these years then? Because most people have had a great experience. I just received an email this week from someone saying our products are too durable, they still have the original AAA and LS from years ago and use them on a regular basis.

The new Arc-AAA GS is a distinct and valuable product and I recommend it for people looking for a durable flashlight they can depend on.

As to the issue of where I am going, when, etc. I do not know. You guys have known that I didn't plan on having flashlights be my main focus for the rest of my life. I am "type cast" though and the best offers I am receiving are in the flashlight industry. Even so, I would like to get into another field, say Cognitive Computing. Whatever the future holds however, I want to finish the Arc6 if possible, even though I am missing out on better offers to do so.

I think what people really want to know is, will they continue to be able to buy the AAA and get service on it. They also want to know if the Arc6 will also be available and supported. Will customer service remain unchanged, get worse, get better, etc. Just as with any company or product, CIS will likely continue to make and support these products as long as it is profitable to do so. I can see this continuing for years to come.


Back to customer service and quality... If you have a problem, send an email. If the email takes longer than 1 week to be responded to, then send another email about your discomfort with the delay. Give them a call at 602-269-2301. Ask to talk to Maria, she is the main customer service person.

If there are enough people complaining about the delays in customer service, I can take this to the owners and recommend they hire more staff.

As far as the original issue of the LED protruding from the head of the GS, I am already working on that with the machinist. I have given him dimensions to follow and it is up to him to get the machine setup for that. I imagine it will take a week or two (he works part time).

If you think that these proposed efforts are insufficient. Tell what you think in this thread.

peter

Click to expand...

Sorry, but I can not get to the thread in the Market Place, since the MP is down for maintenance. It's difficult to understand this thread, without 1st understanding the referencing thread. Anyway, I'll be sure to read that when the MP comes back online. I'm not quite sure how to respond. Yes, I complain and complain loudly when something is not to my liking. That holds true with Arc and any other manufacture or vendor. Someone's/Somthing's good history and track-record can only be a crutch for so long. After a certain period of time or a certain amount of screw-ups, past history doesn't hold weight any longer for me. Call it disloyalty or whatever you want. If you have an issue with that sort of thinking, that's your problem, not mine.

As it relates to my personal current issue. I still do not have a refund from my (2) GS lights that I returned several weeks ago. I haven't heard back from Maria for several days now. I messaged Peter late last week and he said he'd give her a holler, but I've heard nothing since then. Like it or not folks, this is 2008 and if you're trying to tell me that a phone call should be made instead of being able to conduct business/customer service just as efficiently as with an email, than that company has a more serious issue.

I'll continued to treasure my dozen or so CS/DS Arc-AAA lights, because I love them and they work well. One will continue to ride on my key-chain like it has since I got it. What I will no longer do or can no longer do is recommend the Arc-AAA light to friends, family and acquaintances. It's sad, but that's the way it is. Don't look at me as the bad guy here. I've done nothing more than attempt to be a continued customer and supporter, but like I said up-top, past history is only so good for so long.

Nascar out.

This is what has killed lots of industry leaders through the years; they become so sure of the public's support that they no longer need to care.

Then along comes the new guy who is trying to get some market share, and there you have it. Industry leader shelved in the dust bin of history.

However, Kodak is proving that bad choices can be rectified, if the company cares enough to do something about it, as will hopefully be the case with Arc.

yaesumofo said:

Telephone works better than e-mail.

Click to expand...

Not if you are deaf or a mute. Neither of which I am, but if a company lists an email address as a means of contact, they better check it and respond in a timely fashion.

WadeF said:

Not if you are deaf or a mute. Neither of which I am, but if a company lists an email address as a means of contact, they better check it and respond in a timely fashion.

Click to expand...

Agreed.

this_is_nascar said:

What I will no longer do or can no longer do is recommend the Arc-AAA light to friends, family and acquaintances.

Click to expand...

I have a half-dozen Arcs right now but I will not be getting any more, nor will I recommend them to friends or family. The last two Arcs I received were defective (looked like they had been chewed on). I got the two defective lights replaced but occasionally when I tighten the head, nothing happens. It takes a little fiddling to get the light to turn on. I definitely cannot rely on these lights.

I had always thought of Arc lights as being quality products that were reliable. That is no longer the case. I have moved on to other lights that are either equal or better quality lights and much less expensive than the Arc lights.

I wish Peter the best of luck in whatever endeavor he chooses, and if he ever builds another flashlight that has the same quality and dependability of the old Arc lights, I will be first in line to purchase one.

Not to pile on, but here goes. I returned my AAA-GS and waited for my refund. I sent a few emails and left phone messages for Maria, she did finally contact accounts payable and I did receive my refund in about three weeks after returning it to ARC, minus shipping both ways. The shipping would buy a new Fenix E01. I have a few of them on order for my key rings.

I'm up in the air if I will purchase an ARC6. I think the only way I will, is if I can order one of the first 100. If not I'll wait and see if the forum gives it a solid thumbs up before I would order one (assuming the cost is realistic). I figure someone will take it off my hands if it is one of the first 100 serial numbers and is an under-performer.

Plus, around $250.00 or better sounds a little steep, maybe the engineering and tooling costs should be spread out a little thinner across the product. (IMHO)
:shrug: :shrug:

I have to say this however it may not be the case but it seems odd to me....Way back in the day when Peter had sole control of Arc and their business decisions it seemed that the product was much better. It also seemed that the cost was reasonable considering the quality was so good and there were always those great deals on seconds.

There was never any doubt as to cost and future models and it was just a good time for Arc and their customers.....Maybe the massive delays in production these days and all the delays in giving an actual cost or updates is due to Mr.Gransee not having control of the product decisions anymore. I remember long ago wondering just what happened to the "new" Arc when Peter returned....it was just not the same on many levels.

Remember when Peter had a simple,reliable and available product and all was well. Maybe this business deal with this other company making the new Arcs is really limiting his involvement. So honestly the question I have to ask myself is with Peter really not fully involved and most likely not to be involved with future versions should I continue to support Arc? Most of what made Arc so good was Peter himself and with him no longer in total control will Arc still be Arc that we all know.....I doubt it somehow.

This entire new model has kind of frustrated me in many ways. I know new models are costly and there are delays however we all have been following this for a long time. I realize that Mr.Gransee required funds to begin a new project and this new company helped him to do so however what did he have to really give up to have this? He gave the name of Arc to this company and if they force him to release a crappy design then it will hurt him more in the end anyway. If he did nothing then he would not have any product to give at all for sale. The way I read it is that Mr.Gransee gives his thoughts and designs and if someone simply does not like it they can change any part of this new Light and still call it an Arc?....well to me that is not truly an original Arc light is it or at least not if they change any of his designs?

So how do others feel about this I am curious? Peter is what made Arc so unique and if he has no other future involvement will others still support Arc products made by another maker?

It depends: will people buy a Lenovo Thinkpad instead of an IBM one? Or a Jaguar with a Ford transmission? Or a Shrade tool made by the new Chinese owners? Some people certainly, the same people as before, maybe.

Is everyone being to critical of ARC as a whole!

It amazes me that post after post of praise of ARC on the cpf forum, ARC releases the GS (which obviously did not meet up to standards of the ARC Brand coupled with the recent problems with Customer Service just made things worse), Now all the sudden everybody is blaming CSI and that "The New ARC Company" is not the same anymore!

I am confused, the "new arc company" has been around since 2005 and most people who posted have been praising there products and customer service for a long time. As a matter of fact it has only been recent that the SHTF!

I am not making excuses for the current problems with ARC. But I think posters should focus on the problem at hand, rather than dismiss the company and all its products as a whole.

Lets face it, what other flashlight manufacturer allows us to express our voices directly with the company and get feedback on a public forum on a regular basis. whether it is negative or positive.

On another note It is rare to find a quality flashlight like the ARC AAA and I think it would be sorely missed if they closed down tomorrow.

I hope Arc turns things around with the GS product and its customer service. So they can continue to grow and be an important member of cpf for a long time to come

dd61999 said:

Lets face it, what other flashlight manufacturer allows us to express our voices directly with the company and get feedback on a public forum on a regular basis. whether it is negative or positive.

Click to expand...

That is the problem, Peter has almost no involvement with the company, and is leaving them in the near future...
By the looks of things Peter's "feedback" to the company was minimal at best by his own admission.

B@rt said:

That is the problem, Peter has almost no involvement with the company, and is leaving them in the near future...
By the looks of things Peter's "feedback" to the company was minimal at best by his own admission.

Click to expand...

... and that's exactly why I think that Arc is "no longer" and should be treated as such. At this point, moving any further calling "an Arc as we know it, an Arc" is misrepresenting the name and the person that we know as being "Arc".

Shutdown the Arc Sub-Forum, disallow future postings in that forum and let future conversations concerning "Arc, Arc-AAA, Arc6" be conducted in the LED Forum.

It's sad to see Peter go but... like all businesses... These things happen!!

B@rt said:

.......By the looks of things Peter's "feedback" to the company was minimal at best by his own admission.

Click to expand...

can you point this out, because I have seemed to have missed it.

The last I read was that corrections are being made to the design of the GS, he will bring up the idea of hiring more staff to correct customer service, and to have us voice our opinions on what else we would like to see changed if these proposed changes are not sufficient

this_is_nascar said:

... and that's exactly why I think that Arc is "no longer" and should be treated as such. At this point, moving any further calling "an Arc as we know it, an Arc" is misrepresenting the name and the person that we know as being "Arc".

Shutdown the Arc Sub-Forum, disallow future postings in that forum and let future conversations concerning "Arc, Arc-AAA, Arc6" be conducted in the LED Forum.

Click to expand...

Sorry TIN

I disagree with you.

I know you have been burnt recently. But I still enjoy the ARC forum and I am sure plenty of other people do as well since it is the most active forum in the CPF Custom Builder and Modder section.

I also recall your recent purchase in the past 6 months of the ARC DS and ARC SNOW has been a positive experience.

Do you really want to see the end of ARC or would you rather see the company learn from this mistake and correct it.

dd61999 said:

Sorry TIN

I disagree with you.

I know you have been burnt recently. But I still enjoy the ARC forum and I am sure plenty of other people do as well since it is the most active forum in the CPF Custom Builder and Modder section.

I also recall your recent purchase in the past 6 months of the ARC DS and ARC SNOW has been a positive experience.

Do you really want to see the end of ARC or would you rather see the company learn from this mistake and correct it.

Click to expand...

You missed my point. The Arc company we have come to know is no longer what got us all loving the Arc products. It's been stated that Peter does not have the final word on pretty much anything anymore. For that matter, his employment with the company (said with tongue in cheek) almost sounds as if it's day-to-day, with a definite finale in the not to distant future.