Novatac battery, quick drop-off

scottaw · Apr 15, 2008

I believe i just actually killed the first battery in my 120P, and it was not what i expected. Since Novatac states a steadily declining output when the battary is dying, i ecpected it to last awhile before it left you in the dark, one of the reasons i've been using it over my P2D. So this afternoon i was using the light, 60 lumen level, and all seemed fine. Tonight i pull it out to walk the dog, it blinks twice and comes on to the lowest level, and shuts off entirely in about 5 sec. Turn it back on, same thing twice more. But pop in a new battery, and everything is fine. Shouldn't these batteries drop off slowly? Like being able to watch it go down, one level at a time? Could be possible I somehow activated it in my pocket, but that's never happened before.

nanotech17 · Apr 15, 2008

i think you have to activate the battery detect reset.
1.turn the light on.
2.unscrew the battery case until the light turns off.
3.screw the battery case back together,there will be one second of dim light.
4.during the 1 second of dim light,press & hold the button.
5.you will see 5 seconds of bright light,followed by dim light.
6.Release the button when the light goes dim.
7.Now the battery-detect-reset is complete.

If the button is released during the brighter light period,the error flash sequence of six rapid flashes will be diaplayed.The light will not detect the new battery config & damage may occur to the rechargeable battey.

scottaw · Apr 15, 2008

I wasn't changing batteries when it happened, that battery had been in there for about 2 months. Haven't changed battery types yet either, though i do have some AW RCR's here, do they die differently? (prob wouldn't die at all b/c i could top them off weekly or whatever.)

BabyDoc · Apr 15, 2008

scottaw said:
I believe i just actually killed the first battery in my 120P, and it was not what i expected. Since Novatac states a steadily declining output when the battary is dying, i ecpected it to last awhile before it left you in the dark, one of the reasons i've been using it over my P2D. So this afternoon i was using the light, 60 lumen level, and all seemed fine. Tonight i pull it out to walk the dog, it blinks twice and comes on to the lowest level, and shuts off entirely in about 5 sec. Turn it back on, same thing twice more. But pop in a new battery, and everything is fine. Shouldn't these batteries drop off slowly? Like being able to watch it go down, one level at a time? Could be possible I somehow activated it in my pocket, but that's never happened before.

I have a new black 120P. I experienced exactly the same thing with my first battery. There was no step down during usage to indicate that I was approaching the end of the batteries life. The next time I turned on the light it blinked a couple of times and shut down. I was using a regular CR123 cell, too. I don't think it is a battery reset issue at all as said in the prior post. You put in a new cell and the light works fine. The light behaved like it used up the battery so completely while off that when turned back on there wasn't enough to even get to start up in the lowest level. I can't imagine the light used any power while off . For example, I didn't have the finder function enabled which would use up battery power while off. Are there possibly other functions that use energy while the light is off? I haven't used up another CR123 cell to see if the problem will happen again.

tebore · Apr 15, 2008

It depends on the battery you're using. And if the battery reset was done when you first loaded the battery.

If everything was a ok then yes this is normal behaviour the Novatac has a crappier circuit for draining the battery to the last drop. The predecessor the HDS EDC would keep dropping and drain the battery to the last milliamp.

BabyDoc · Apr 15, 2008

tebore said:
It depends on the battery you're using. And if the battery reset was done when you first loaded the battery.

If everything was a ok then yes this is normal behaviour the Novatac has a crappier circuit for draining the battery to the last drop. The predecessor the HDS EDC would keep dropping and drain the battery to the last milliamp.

The instructions for the Novatac specifically state that if the battery is weak that the unit will progressively step down its output, allowing you to run the light for as long as possible in a level, until it further steps down a level, and then shuts down. This doesn't sound like a crappy circuit, but rather a very advanced circuit, that for some reason, isn't working for me or Scottaw. Does anybody else have any ideas?

LightBeing · Apr 15, 2008

You need to do a battery reset for the first time! You need to have it set to the type you are using. If it was last used or set to RCR123 - rechargeable and you put a primary in without resetting it then it would do exactly as described above in the couple situations. At least try doing the reset. It's not the easiest thing to do as it involves a little dexterity to screw down the cap and catch the light on signal in 1 second (it would have been better to make that 2 or 3 seconds I think). The other possible problem will more likely be in the battery. A bad battery or weak one or even a defective protection circuit is where you might want to look first. I doubt anything has changed in the circuitry of the Novatac. They are not as tebore said though quite like the HDS however they shouldn't be acting like what was described here.

scottaw · Apr 15, 2008

Ok, just did the battery-detect reset, just in case. I'm gonna leave my light set to 120 lumens so it hopefully kills the battery in a few days, and we'll see how this one dies.

BabyDoc · Apr 15, 2008

I just spoke to Jim at Novatac about the battery reset. He said that a reset is not necessary on a new light with the battery that comes with it. There would be only one way of messing up that setting; If you reset the light with rechargables and then replaced the battery with the original primary without doing another reset. In my case I never did use rechargables, so the battery reset could not be wrong.

I then asked him if the light uses up any battery capacity while off, and he said, only a miniscule amount. I figure since I mostly use the light on low, perhaps when the battery was weak, I just didn't know it. It can't step down from low when the light is weak. Perhaps it was weak and then got weaker after shutting it off to the point it would not come back on properly, the next time I used the light. It could only blink and shut down. Anyway, he said the light should step down from higher levels when the battery is weak. If it doesn't, he said to send the light back and it will be checked out or exchanged.

scottaw · Apr 15, 2008

I may have run mine at 60 lumens right to the step down point when i shut it off, and they it was dead at turn on? I thought i would get a good bit of runtime as it stepped down into the 20's and single lumen settings. I got nothing at .08. Oh well, we'll see how this battery goes, i really don't want to send it in.

Side note...I bought this light used, may have been set for RCR's

2nd side note...When i bought this the original owner polished the bezel, would that effect warranty coverage? what about a PEU bezel?

BabyDoc · Apr 15, 2008

Removing the bezel or polishing the bezel, or replacing it with a Peu bezel will not void the warranty. Novatac will just not guarantee any modifications that were made to the light.

If your light stepped down at all while the battery was weaking, it is normal. Don't worry about it. It will NOT step down all the way to the lowest possible programmable setting on your p120, before failing to operate. Whenever you see your light is stepping down on its own, its time to change the battery. If you don't, you may get a few more minutes of use at a lower setting, but don't expect your light will work the next time you turn it on. It takes more power turning on a light, than it does to keep it going once it is on.

nanotech17 · Apr 16, 2008

BabyDoc said:
I just spoke to Jim at Novatac about the battery reset. He said that a reset is not necessary on a new light with the battery that comes with it. There would be only one way of messing up that setting; If you reset the light with rechargables and then replaced the battery with the original primary without doing another reset. In my case I never did use rechargables, so the battery reset could not be wrong.

I then asked him if the light uses up any battery capacity while off, and he said, only a miniscule amount. I figure since I mostly use the light on low, perhaps when the battery was weak, I just didn't know it. It can't step down from low when the light is weak. Perhaps it was weak and then got weaker after shutting it off to the point it would not come back on properly, the next time I used the light. It could only blink and shut down. Anyway, he said the light should step down from higher levels when the battery is weak. If it doesn't, he said to send the light back and it will be checked out or exchanged.

That's good news

Ninjaz7 · Apr 16, 2008

Scary stuff,I got a 120T on the way

.

turbodog · Apr 16, 2008

BabyDoc said:
The instructions for the Novatac specifically state that if the battery is weak that the unit will progressively step down its output, allowing you to run the light for as long as possible in a level, until it further steps down a level, and then shuts down. This doesn't sound like a crappy circuit, but rather a very advanced circuit, that for some reason, isn't working for me or Scottaw. Does anybody else have any ideas?

I've covered this in prior posts. He's right.... crappier means that the light wasn't finished before it shipped.

Don't bother with wasting time with runtime/discharge tests. The light goes down in flames quickly after the initial stepdown.

There are several documented power supply/regulation issues with the novatac lights. Do not expect them to be fixed, ever.

That said, it's a good light overall though. My opinion would drop several notches if it had a direct competitor. For now, the uniqueness counts for a lot.

scottaw · Apr 16, 2008

Hmm, sounds like this is a known issue, oh well, i have some AW RCR's here that i'm going to switch to, i'll just top them off when i charge my cell phone and hopefully never have an issue. Ohterwise this light still amazes me every time i play with it.

Steve L · Apr 16, 2008

I only use a RCR123 or a 17670(with the 2CR123 - 17670 tube from lighthound) in my 120Ps and they step down when the battery gets low, when it steps down to the lowest level they start flashing(warning). I just change the battery as soon as it start stepping down. They are great lights.

Make sure you do the battery detect the first time you use a RCR123.

BabyDoc · Apr 16, 2008

Steve, does you light step down in the same fashion when using primaries?

nanotech17 · Apr 17, 2008

my black 120-T is having a hard time producing 120lumens with fresh from the pack cr123 even after battery reset detect,it only fired up at 10-15lumens :crackup:

but with rcr123 it's great.
Already emailed to Jim,see what he has got to say.

Steve L · Apr 17, 2008

BabyDoc said:
Steve, does you light step down in the same fashion when using primaries?

I have never run a primary in the lights. As soon as I received them I took the included primary out and put a RCR123 in, then did a battery detect.

I will try to do a test on my 120Ps(natural, black) and see if they act the same way on primaries.

When they start stepping down on a RCR123, it steps down pretty quick. Steps down for a short period, then down further. Never really timed it though.

paxxus · Apr 17, 2008

Mine does that too. After initial step down it very quickly drops off - with various weird flickering along the way. Take that same battery, after the NovaTac has given up, and put it in my HDS EDC and it produces rock-steady usable light for a looong time.

This has been covered in many threads, do a search. From what I've read it is more or less expected behavior and will not be fixed.

This is one of the reasons I've gone back to EDCing my old trusty HDS (with seoul mod).

Novatac battery, quick drop-off

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