I think all future LED flashlights should have variable output levels

LED-holic

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I recently bought the cheap 1AA Coast LED Lenser light, and even though it's not as bright as my L2D Q5, I still find that people look at me strangely if I turn it on at crowded places.

For example, on a flight a couple of days ago, I turned it on to get something out of my bag. A few people seemed surprised by how bright the light was and gave me some stares.

At a dark restaurant the other day, I turned it on to check that I didn't leave anything under the table or chairs, and this other group of people were looking at me as I walked out.

I definitely would have liked to have drawn less attention with a lower level output, like say around 5 lumens (similar to my LED converted mini-maglites).

Either that or people are still shocked by how bright LED lights are, or just like looking at LED nerds like myself. :poke:
 

Pistolero

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Totally agree.

But UI's are such a PITA sometimes.

I do like carrying that cheap Rayovac Penlite. It does the job for good lowlight scenarios. Incidently that light is about the upper threshold that I can tolerate for a passenger to use in a car when I am driving at night.
 

jefflrrp

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While I can agree with you that a light for edc should have multiple levels (2), on a tac light I want 1 level -- really freakin bright.
 

craig333

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Lucky us, we can choose whatever we want. I sure wouldn't want to have that in all my lights. As a matter of fact I don't want that in most of my lights. If looking under restaurant tables was one of my primary uses, by all means I'd edc one of my variable brightness lights. I usually think tactical use first. I'd hate to need to startle someone and hit them with low and then have to go up. Not good.
 

HKJ

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I believe that most general purpose light will have multiple levels in the future.

But some special purpose light will only have one level, that might be lights for weapons but also other professions will only need a single level.

Many of the cheapest lights might also stay at one level.
 

eebowler

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What would happen if a police officer corners a criminal in a dark alley,pulls out his trusty 300 lumen flashlight to stun the guy or find him in a corner and hits the crook with a whooping 2 lumens!

Would a firefighter have the luxary of changing modes while in a burning building?

Would an individual who's life depends on the reliability of his flashlight want the added complexity (and probability of failure) of a flashlight with multiple modes?

I LOVE multiple modes and most of my lights have it but it should not be something forced on everyone who does not need it or desire it...
 

olrac

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Voila! the Rex Light!!

quick push of button and release.....bright as a Fenix L0D Q4!
push and hold down starts up as low as low can be!
idiot proof!.......and I am the idiot to prove it!

And no, it is not for tactical use!

PS Hold down Button and it goes from bright to low and visa versa
 
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MrGman

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I recently bought the cheap 1AA Coast LED Lenser light, and even though it's not as bright as my L2D Q5, I still find that people look at me strangely if I turn it on at crowded places.

For example, on a flight a couple of days ago, I turned it on to get something out of my bag. A few people seemed surprised by how bright the light was and gave me some stares.

At a dark restaurant the other day, I turned it on to check that I didn't leave anything under the table or chairs, and this other group of people were looking at me as I walked out.

I definitely would have liked to have drawn less attention with a lower level output, like say around 5 lumens (similar to my LED converted mini-maglites).

Either that or people are still shocked by how bright LED lights are, or just like looking at LED nerds like myself. :poke:

Why do you have to be a totalitarian socialisto in your flashlight philosophy that "All" new flashlights should be the way you want them to be? :poke: How about you just buy the ones that you like and use them. You already have a 5 mode light and apparently aren't using it when you could. :twak:

Nobody is twisting your arm to use the nonadjustable light. You're making your own problem and you want some one else to solve it for you. Do you work for the government or something? :party:

You have the power to solve your own problem, but are you smart enough? :crackup:
 

horizonseeker

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Voila! the Rex Light!!

quick push of button and release.....bright as a Fenix L0D Q4!
push and hold down starts up as low as low can be!
idiot proof!.......and I am the idiot to prove it!

And no, it is not for tactical use!

PS Hold down Button and it goes from bright to low and visa versa

you might want to be a little more specific, the rexlight is the one sold by KD and is an AA with tail switch mode changes, I think the one you want to refer to is the Photon Rex that has a different UI and is a different light altogether.
 

xcel730

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I like the option of having multiple modes, but find it rather annoying switching from low to high or vice versa. Having memory mode is definitely a plus. Preferrably, I would like to have something like the Fenix ... but with the following:

* Tighten Bezel - Max
* Loosen Bezel - low > med > high > SOS (medium is optional)

I could see the SOS being used, but personally I think the strobe could go.
 

olrac

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you might want to be a little more specific, the rexlight is the one sold by KD and is an AA with tail switch mode changes, I think the one you want to refer to is the Photon Rex that has a different UI and is a different light altogether.

Thank you good sir you are correct in your assumption it is indeed the photon rex of which i speak. good catch!
 

Frankiarmz

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What would happen if a police officer corners a criminal in a dark alley,pulls out his trusty 300 lumen flashlight to stun the guy or find him in a corner and hits the crook with a whooping 2 lumens!

Would a firefighter have the luxary of changing modes while in a burning building?

Would an individual who's life depends on the reliability of his flashlight want the added complexity (and probability of failure) of a flashlight with multiple modes?

I LOVE multiple modes and most of my lights have it but it should not be something forced on everyone who does not need it or desire it...

I was ready to agree with the person who posted the thread until your post opened my eyes. I saw the restrictions of not having multi levels of output rather than the benefits and necessity of having only one. Generally speaking multi levels are nice to have and I look for them, but there obviously must be single output products available and for good reasons. Thanks.
 

asdalton

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Generally speaking multi levels are nice to have and I look for them, but there obviously must be single output products available and for good reasons. Thanks.

Yup. Too many people think that multiple levels, strobe, etc. are automatically "features" that always add usefulness and never take away. Not so: you lose the ability to have a big fat button that you can press and get the light you want, every time. The more complicated the UI, the worse this penalty is.

The only true multi-level light (more than 2 levels) that I like is the Surefire U2. You can crank it up to high--by feel alone--and then almost forget that it's a multi-level light if you want. The Fenix L1T/L2T v2.0 has this advantage, too. I don't really care for multi-click lights, unless it's just two levels like the Surefire E1B.

One of the advantages of multi-level output is the ability to save battery life. With the current generation of LEDs, this ability matters less than it used to. For example, the 2007 version of the E2L puts out 50 lumens for over 9 hours in regulation. Even the 2008 version will run for 6 hours regulated on its 80-lumen high beam.
 

2xTrinity

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Yup. Too many people think that multiple levels, strobe, etc. are automatically "features" that always add usefulness and never take away.
Nobody said anything about strobe. In nearly all implementations strobe is far more trouble than it's worth IMO. But variable brightness is very useful if implemented well. The problem is that it's very often implemented poorly.

Not so: you lose the ability to have a big fat button that you can press and get the light you want, every time. The more complicated the UI, the worse this penalty is.
A flashlight with the UI of the Photon Freedom would satisfy this. Click on/Click off, 100% output guaranteed. Once on, if you want to reduce output (say to conserve battery life) click and hold. If you want to start low and ramp up, say to fumble throug a bag, or walk through a dark theater, or navigate around a dark beach without disturbing others, click and hold while the light is still off to start at LOW and ramp up as needed.

The only true multi-level light (more than 2 levels) that I like is the Surefire U2. You can crank it up to high--by feel alone--and then almost forget that it's a multi-level light if you want. The Fenix L1T/L2T v2.0 has this advantage, too. I don't really care for multi-click lights, unless it's just two levels like the Surefire E1B.
Dedicated controls are a very good thing -- ie, the switch is on/off, the dial controls brightness. True "random access" multi level brightness. IMO all "big" lights should have a dedicated brightness control. I will say though that I have never liked interfaces like the Fenixes where the on/off switch is used to "step through" different levels, particularly not when there's no way to go from high to low directly. The LxD series that switches from high to low by tightening the head is at least tolerable in that respect.

One of the advantages of multi-level output is the ability to save battery life. With the current generation of LEDs, this ability matters less than it used to. For example, the 2007 version of the E2L puts out 50 lumens for over 9 hours in regulation. Even the 2008 version will run for 6 hours regulated on its 80-lumen high beam.
This is a good point, although the reason I prefer low levels has little to do with battery life (though that is a nice bonus). One of the big reasons why many consider LEDs a good choice for multi-level is that they get more efficient when dimmed. A more significant benefit IMO however is the fact that they maintain their color temperature at all outputs. If oyu were to dim an incan to say 0.2% output, it would be a useless red, and still be consuming a huge amount of power to produce a lot of IR. With an LED, at 0.2% output , the spectrum is still essentially the same, and the batter life could be as much as 700x longer on a set of batteries (effectively forever...)

90% of my real (non showing off) flashlight use is from a Liteflux LF2x on its lowest setting, about 1/3 lumen. If anything I'm finding that to be too much in many cases. Runtime on a AAA at that output is 2 weeks of on-time.

I recently did a worskhop where we were developing red-sensitive holographic film in pitch black. The only light we used was a blue LED, run on a single 2032, with a couple layers of filters over it to block spill reduce output even further. It was producing perhaps 1/100th of a lumen at most, but it was enough to see what I was doing, keep from tripping, etc.


The following are the different sorts of UIs I'd use for variable brightness, depending on size:

Coin Cell -- Photon Freedom
AAA Keychain size -- ie AAA lights -- LF2 interface, essentially a programmable two stage. Set the highest level that will run for 30mins, a low low, and never use anything else.
EDC Size -- ie AA up to "slender" 2CR123 lights, like the P3D. Photon Freedom interface. Using a signal level swtich instead of a mechanical switch could make the tailcap a lot smaller and more reliable.
Large Size -- Basically, A dedicated on/off forward clicky, and a dial with brighnesses increasing from a fraction of a lumen, to maximum logarithmicaly.

At very minimum, I believe most lights larger than a keychain should have a LOW low output (~0.1%), medium -- for battery conservation (30%), and high (100%). Specialized lights, such as those used in REAL tactical situations by Police/Military, may still be better off as single level for simplicity.
 
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Hooked on Fenix

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I agree that it isn't always ideal to have to ramp up the brightness from high to low or low to high. I think they should make a light with infinitely variable brightness controlled by turning the bezel or a selector ring like the U2. This way you can have it at the level you want as soon as you push the button. No lag time to blind a criminal or to turn down low in a movie theater to find something. I think a simple forward clickie would be best for the switch. You could have an optional switch that changes from on to strobe to SOS as an add on. That way everyone gets what they want. You get a light that turns on at the exact level you want instantly, and you don't have to have it on to change levels. You get a forward clickie for signaling as well as the other modes for those who want them. It's too bad no light has this configuration yet. The Surefire U2 is the closest, but it's out of my price range with an outdated emitter. It would be nice to have a Fenix P3D sized light that works with 2 123As, 2 3.7 volt RCR123As, or an 18650 with a SSC P7 that adjusts from 0.1 lumens to 400 lumens with my wanted features for under $100. I can dream, can't I? The Surefire UB2 might be close.
 

Fird

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AMEN!!

I vote for a click/twist tailcap (or twist bezel, i guess that works too). Click for on, twist for brightness control.
 
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