HA-II coating on a $75 Surefire 6P... why not HA-III?

so I just bought two surefire defender 6P's and two wolf eyes r2 drop ins. I like the setup for staving off a potiential attacker, but I just noticed the 6p's are HA-II instead of III. What gives? This is a $75 light, why skimp on the coating surefire?

Can anyone breakdrown the 3 kinds of anodizing for me? I know III is the hardest, but I need more detail than that. Is II still pretty hard?

The black anodize they use on the 6P et al is stil pretty tough. We still don't really know why they don't make these lights in type III. Perhaps an email to SF would help clear that up?

There is no such thing as "HA-II".
It's type II or type III.
Type III is also known as Hard Anodised.

Why don't SureFire offer the 6P (6PD/6PL etc) (and Z2 for that matter) in natural or Black HA?

I suggest that SureFire want to maintain continuity of their iconic products.

They offer plenty of other products with HA and perhaps they see people stepping up beyond their 6P/Z2 entry models to more feature-rich products where one of those features is HA...

I would personally prefer the 6P/Z2 et al to be offered in Black HA but I very much doubt this will happen.

Al

Size15's said:

There is no such thing as "HA-II".
They offer plenty of other products with HA and perhaps they see people stepping up beyond their 6P/Z2 entry models to more feature-rich products where one of those features is HA...
Al

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Thats how I see it.

I would love to see a type III 6P LED.

Thanks for the clarification Al. Now that you mention it, I remembered that type II isn't considered HARD. Should I handle type II lights more gently? Should I have my wife carry the 6p in a case inside her purse to avoid it getting scratched up by just floating around naked with the contents of the other items I her purse?

Any such thing as type I anodizing?

yes i believe soo...i think its all based on the thickness of the coat

heres some info

Chromic Anodizing
Utilizing a chromic acid electrolyte this form of anodizing yields the thinnest coatings, only .05 to .1 mils thick. Chromic anodizing is a good choice when a part is complex and difficult to rinse because chromic acid is less corrosive than sulfuric acid used in other anodizing methods. Chromic anodize also reduces the fatigue strength of the aluminum less than the other methods described.

Sulfuric Anodizing
This form of anodizing yields coatings under 1 mil thick. Although it offers mild abrasion resistance it is more durable than chromic anodize. Like most anodizes corrosion resistance is excellent. The most desirable feature of this form of anodizing would be the excellent results from dyeing yielding deep and rich colors.

Hardcoat Anodizing
Also using a sulfuric acid electrolyte, although at a lower temperature, hardcoat anodize's claim to fame is wear resistance. This will produce a Rockwell C-scale rating of 60-70. This makes it an excellent candidate for many wear situations.

Its called Cost Cutting

Can anyone breakdrown the 3 kinds of anodizing for me?

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Protective anodizing is much like chrome plating. Ornamental chrome plate is paper thin -- in fact it's even thinner than that. Industrial hard chrome runs 10x to 1000x thicker.

Anodized coatings are similar:

Type II coatings are thin, ranging from .0001" to .0010". By comparison, a sheet of copier paper is .0030".

Type III coatings run from .0010" to .0060".

The thinnest Type III is 10x thicker than the thinnest Type II. The thickest is 60x thicker.

All chrome is the same hardness, and all aluminum oxide is the same hardness. It's a matter of thickness.

yalskey said:

Thanks for the clarification Al. Now that you mention it, I remembered that type II isn't considered HARD. Should I handle type II lights more gently? Should I have my wife carry the 6p in a case inside her purse to avoid it getting scratched up by just floating around naked with the contents of the other items I her purse?

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In my perhaps not so humble opinion I think not.
For two reasons -
Firstly the flashlight is intended to be used. Two worry about the finish to the extent that you feel you have to treat the flashlight with care and take precautions to protect the finish is detracting from the purpose of the flashlight.
It's like leaving the shipping protectors on cellphone and other electronics display screens - sure they help protect the screen surface from scratches etc but they also degrade the quality and clarity of what the screen is displaying.

Secondly I consider that a device that has become worn through use has grown in character and become personally linked to the user through the shared experience of going through life together. Every ding, chip, scruff and scratch is the result of being used making the tool unique through the user's interaction with it.

That's my opinion FWIW.

Al

Well put ! :thumbsup:

I consider that a device that has become worn through use has grown in character and become personally linked to the user through the shared experience of going through life together. -Size15's

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+1, X1000!
Excellent point!

I was wondering this same thing. I notice the C2 has both type II and III available. The type III is only $10 more. I don't see why they can't do the same thing with the 6P.

Bradley

well said, TORCH_BOY. It has to be about cost.

If the wear resistance of the finish did not matter then all of SF's flashlights would be type II. SF's use of HAIII means that scratch resistance matters.

There are other reasons to need HA.
Better resistance to chemicals including salt water, lower reflectance, especially under IR light, lower electrical conductivity / lower sparking ability. Sharper knurling for better grip.

Yes, why not provide all those benefits on the Surefire 6P/6PD/6Z/6PL?

Yes, why not provide all those benefits on the Surefire 6P/6PD/6Z/6PL?

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For probably $10-$15 more, the 6-Series lights could be run in HAIII Natural. But 6-Series lights are black, which means an additional dye step, which means additional cost. To offer a black 6-Series, SF would be near or at the price level of the E-Series.

It would surprise me if SF hasn't already considered this & found that the market for this light is at the current price point.

precisionworks said:

It would surprise me if SF hasn't already considered this & found that the market for this light is at the current price point.

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I agree, I doubt very, very much that it is a case of SureFire "not thinking of it" and just needing it to be brought to their attention.

$10 may be the difference between a potential customer deciding to buy the light, or deciding to walk away. It might not seem much to many of us on CPF with large collections of flashlights, but it will make a difference to others.

Regards,
Tempest

My bottom line point is this... for $75, Surefire should put a type III coating on the light. Type III is obviously a better design choice all around... and more desirable. It also adds durability to the product. I'm SURE it only costs them like $20 to $25 max to make a 6p. The extra $3 to $5 (high-ball estimate) to put a III coating on them still leaves them massive profit margin. To me, this is just a inconsistent crack in Surefire's "we are the ultimate illumination tool manufacturer" philosophy.

I know they are not the same quality, and they are made in China, but there are DealExtreme lights that have HA-III for less than $20 shipped!!!

Come on Surefire... fur realz!

p.s. I'm pretty much nit-picking here. I'll probably never even need nor notice anything about the type II vs. III coatings on my 6p's in my life. They will probably be excellent tools for my wife and I, and Surefire's lifetime replacement warranty and stellar service is worth the price of the light in my opinion. Plus, I like lights made in the good old USA!

I honestly think that the best thing that can come of this conversation is that we all, as individuals, email or call SureFire and request type III (natural or black) on more lights. Believe it or not, SureFire listens to their customers, they just wait for their customers to contact them. Requests from hunters got them to offer the G2 in RealTree camo, so I'm sure enough requests from the different demographics we comprise could get SF to consider changing their products.

KeyGrip said:

I honestly think that the best thing that can come of this conversation is that we all, as individuals, email or call SureFire and request type III (natural or black) on more lights. Believe it or not, SureFire listens to their customers

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I remember Size15s making a useful suggestion a while ago - write SureFire a letter and post it to them if you want your voice to be heard, as a letter is likely to carry more weight and demand more attention than a phone call or email Worth a shot.

Regards,
Tempest