which p7 light is for me

i'm saw wayne's new wall of fire and that looks really cool. four p7s, 2000+ lumens. is that designed to be a floody light. i don't see any reflectors or optics there. seems like i would want at least a touch of reflection, but i do like a floody light.

more practicly i like the single 3d p7 for $129. does anyone here have that. is that the equivalent of four p4's cause i have wayne's 4x p4 drop in in a 6d and a 3x p4 drop in 3d. can anyone compare the new p7 to those lights. i'm wondering if 'c' bin means its brighter and just as white. also how is the battery life. seems like it would really suck it down. how many amps is it. can the stock switch handle it. thanks,
jason

Sticky .::List of flashlights using the Cree XR-E, Seoul P4 and Lumiled Rebel LED::. Part 2
post #4
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2449743&postcount=4
I have links to reviews there.
There are now 8 P7 lights in production (10 if you count Kai's discontinued 5 mode and the headlamp)

is the new dx p7 c bin the way to go for a $50 version of the p7?
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.12623

From what I read that light uses fairly high value dropping resistors in both high and low mode so you won't get full brightness of the P7 with that light.
Edit
found the post.
0.5 ohms High
8.6 ohms Low
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2468624&postcount=86
/Edit

The 5 mode also has dropping resisters limiting max output to 2.2A instead of the 2.8A rating of the P7 but can hold it's own against a 3xSSC P4 Elektrolumens My Little Friend.
My Little Friend left, MTE P7 5 mode right.


Some brave souls are jumpering the dropping resistors to get max output. I figure a 0.25 ohm 1 watt resistor instead of the 0.5 ohms will limit the current to just under 2.8A from a freshly charged battery.

I would really like a two stage P7. If Elektrolumens was multi stage I'd be all over it.
The fact that it is quality, built by someone who cares, and has variable focus are big plusses. The size is not a drawback, as none of these are pocket light, and a big solid mag light does present dual use possibilities. The price is not a huge drawback, I will pay for quality if it is exactly what I need. Buy once, cry once. I do think that FOR ME, if I have a "burner" it needs to have a huge maximum output, but also a setting for more general useage.

There are now like 4? "cheap" two stage P7's, but there are few reviews, and conflicting assessments. It looks like they are moving forward, adding "proper copper heat sinks" etc. I can't tell if any of them is even close to getting it close to "right." Again, I don't mind buying a cheap light, if it is what I want. It's not a big sacrifice and I can always buy another.

I don't know how much longer I can wait before pulling the trigger, but I am waiting for some clarity.

Elektrolumens is using stock Mag bodies & switches. I do not think you will see a 2 stage offering from him for a little while.
OTOH he likes designing things. E-mail him & you may get something built quietly. He has a switch 100% - 50% - 25% - fast strobe - slow strobe that may work. I do not know the amp rating & CPFMP is closed for moving to a new server.

GLOCKshooter said:

I would really like a two stage P7. If Elektrolumens was multi stage I'd be all over it.
The fact that it is quality, built by someone who cares, and has variable focus are big plusses. The size is not a drawback, as none of these are pocket light, and a big solid mag light does present dual use possibilities. The price is not a huge drawback, I will pay for quality if it is exactly what I need. Buy once, cry once. I do think that FOR ME, if I have a "burner" it needs to have a huge maximum output, but also a setting for more general useage.

Click to expand...

BRIGHTNESS:
My estimate for the MTE 2 stage:
0.5 ohms High > 400+ torch lumens (588 LED lumens)
8.6 ohms Low > 80+ torch lumens (125 LED lumens)
Surefire is claiming 200 lumens for the UA2 OPTIMUS and 400 lumens for the U2B INVICTUS
Most complaints were it did not deliver the 900 lumens stamped on the torch.
BUILD QUALITY:
When it 1st appeared the MTE was described as a $30 LED in a $15 light. I find mine to be adequate for general purpose use. No having to fiddle to get it to work; no battery fit problems. But do not expect Surefire quality.
The 5 mode has UI problems. The memory feature prevents mode switching. You have do do things a certain way to switch modes. But we are talking 2 modes here - resistorized tailcap.
TIMING:
The sooner you buy the more time you have to play with it before the Surefires arrive. It would be most annoying if Surefire released the UA2 the day after your cheapie was shipped.

GLOCKshooter said:

There are now like 4? "cheap" two stage P7's, but there are few reviews, and conflicting assessments. It looks like they are moving forward, adding "proper copper heat sinks" etc. I can't tell if any of them is even close to getting it close to "right." Again, I don't mind buying a cheap light, if it is what I want. It's not a big sacrifice and I can always buy another.
I don't know how much longer I can wait before pulling the trigger, but I am waiting for some clarity.

Click to expand...

BINNING:
Old way
B Bin: xxx-740 lumens
C Bin: 740-900 lumens
Nobody would buy the B Bin so SSC did a very simple thing - they changed the spec.
C Bin: 700-800 lumens
D Bin: 800-900 lumens
So you buy a C Bin today it could be still be the old B Bin but renamed C.
Forget about the Bin.

Today's C bin is 740-960lm. LEDs with new specs (D and E bin) are not available now.

phantom23 said:

Today's C bin is 740-960lm. LEDs with new specs (D and E bin) are not available now.

Click to expand...

Links Please
Norm

Give me a link to 700-800lm C bin. Or D bin.

960lm is previous max. luminous flux by SSC datasheet.

phantom23 said:

Give me a link to 700-800lm C bin. Or D bin.

960lm is previous max. luminous flux by SSC datasheet.

Click to expand...

You have old OUT OF DATE datasheet.

Go to SSC P7 page on their website:
http://seoulsemicon.co.kr/en/product/prd/zpowerLEDp7.asp
Download the new P7 Series Binning & Labeling PDF (from list on the right hand side)
Page 5



-----

If you bought your C bin from photonfanatic on CPFMP you got the old C bin - 740+ lumens. But he is sold out. So the next batch he sells is new C bin 700-800 lumens.

-----

I do not think anybody got a P7 with 960 lumens at 2.8A LED. Here is why I think so.
Old bin method:
A bin = 4x Cree P2, P3, P4 dies. None of these were sold
B bin = 4x Cree Q2, Q3, Q4, Q5 dies. Probably only the Q5 dies were used so you get 700-740 lumens.
C bin = 4x Cree R2, R3, R4. Only R2 is available at this time so you get 740-800*** lumens. For 800-960 lumens you need to wait for the R3 & R4 dies.
New bin method:
SSC used 700 ,800 ,900 ,1100 lumens.
C bin 700+ lumens.
D bin 800+ lumens. ***Not available now - which means old C bin above 800 lumens were not available before - which makes old C bin 740-800 lumens.
-
When the spec says 740-960 lumens they only promise 740 lumens. They do not promise 960 lumens.
-
I think SSC is fairly honest. Instead of 570-960 lumens they have narrowed it down to 700-800 lumens for current production.
-
It is worse with the torches. MAX 900 lumens means you will never get 901 or more lumens. It could be 900 lumens. It could be 400 lumens. It could be 1 lumen.
-
If you buy an old C bin and put it in a stock mag, then buy an old B bin and put it in a mag upgraded with a UCL lens, the 10% improvement of the UCL lens will make the B in equal to or brighter than the C bin.
As most people cannot tell the difference of 50% light output unless they are doing direct A-B comparison it is pointless worrying over a 10% difference.

You're right, P7 from next batches will have 700-800 lumen C bin. Will means it's not available now. All you can get now is old bin (over 740lm).

At 0,7A Cree R2 produces over 210lm so you can get 850lm (@2,8A) in 4xR2 P7 emitter. And that's quite accurate to modification results.

I worked my way through a lot of Electrolumens threads, and it looks to me (take that for what its worth) like he is anti two stage on a P7 because of the size of resistor it would need.

As to the off the rack bargain bin lights, do the two stage ones have resistors?

There is one Aurora and one MTE that look like they are at least "2nd gen" as far as design, with heat sinks, and a few other improvements. I have seen a lot of posts (but again, this info is being run through my not quite up to speed filter) comparing plastic and aluminum reflectors, but I can't tell what's hip and what's hype.

Still up in the air...

The MTE 2-stage has a 12 ohm resistor for low mode (and is direct drive for high). It doesn't look that large a resistor - maybe 2 watt.

GLOCKshooter said:

I worked my way through a lot of Electrolumens threads, and it looks to me (take that for what its worth) like he is anti two stage on a P7 because of the size of resistor it would need.

As to the off the rack bargain bin lights, do the two stage ones have resistors?

There is one Aurora and one MTE that look like they are at least "2nd gen" as far as design, with heat sinks, and a few other improvements. I have seen a lot of posts (but again, this info is being run through my not quite up to speed filter) comparing plastic and aluminum reflectors, but I can't tell what's hip and what's hype.

Still up in the air...

Click to expand...

IIRC "Do you know how big a 10 watt resistor is?" (yeah I know, about the size of an AA battery but square in cross section.)
To control the light at the spec of 2.8A about 12W you need a 10W resistor if it is in the hot end of the flashlight. You need less if it is in the tailcap. For low mode only about 1.5 watts is generated so a much smaller resistor is needed especially if it is in the tailcap.
I think Wayne just does not want to mod the Mag more than necessary. He used a 2 mode switch / resistor combo in his My Little Friend 3xSSC-P4 driven at 1A each on high or about the the same wattage as the P7 lights.

I think the plastic / aluminum reflectors issue is a holdover from the hotwire mods. If you build a ROP or Mag85 the stock Mag plastic reflector will melt. But with LED the LED will before the reflector melts. So it is a non-issue.