4 p7's mag verses HID?

David Gretzmier · May 8, 2008

So I am looking at electrolumens 4 p7 mod and wondering, why not go HID? 4 p7's will have 3600 emitter lumens, maybe 2500+ out the front. 40 "watts" . will run between 300 and 400 bucks with 3d mag and 2 lithium ion 7500mah d's or 6d mag ( gads they are huge) and 5 nimh 12000mah d's. Runtime on high? 1 hour, 2 hours? no charger included, but lithium ion d's will be. hand built, but hardly any testing or durability history at this point. floody, adjustable to a point, but 1 huge possible advantage over HID- a multi mode could make for lots of runtime, starting at 5%, then 25, 50, 100%, could make this deal for me. also, instant on.

or go with 35 watt HID. more throw. 300-400 bucks, lithium ions are typically included in a pack form, most are not nimh, batteries as well as charger typically included, 2500-3000 lumens out the front as well. manufactured and been around a few years, so arguably more reliable. run time should be around the same as the p7 mod on high, as they both will eat "35-40 watts" from similar cells. I've heard they have to "warm up" to get to the lumens. But I don't know this.

What do you guys see that I don't?

GreySave · May 8, 2008

<<go with 35 watt HID. more throw. 300-400 bucks >>

A couple of weeks ago the Sam's Club HIDs were going for about $18 plus shipping. Thus you could haev a 35 watt HID for less than $40. It may not be top grade, but for the money.....

The advantage with P7s is that you can have momentary use. With the HID you need to allow for warmup time and cooldown time to preserve the life of the bulb unless you purchase one with hot restrike capability.

I simply went with the Streamlight Super Tac for situations where I want momentary and long throw and two Sam's Club HIDs (One to use and one for parts or use when the first unit's battery is used up) when I want REALLY long throw. For a hair more than $100 I have the bases covered.

bill_n_opus · May 8, 2008

Interesting question. Great one actually, i've been thinking of the same thing lately after reading about Elektrolumen's project for the p7.

That would be cool to have so much power in a mag form factor ... however, there are some things that I would have to deal with ... need batteries, charger etc.

Also, would a 4xp7 mod be potentially more "robust" compared to an HID system with bulb, like the Sam's HID for instance? I don't think anyone is intending to abuse their lights of course ... but I would imagine that leds are inherently more stable than an HID bulb - but we have to consider the total package first.

The other benefit for a mag form factor is the "stealthiness" ... if you can call a 3d-6d host "stealthy" ... at least it looks like a regular mag flashlight - and then wham! Actually, that's worth something to me, to be able to whip out a mag and then say "check this out ..."

Illum · May 8, 2008

output...mmm, thats a pretty good question indeed :thinking:

color rendition, probably no contest assuming of course your HID is at 3300-3500K

pbs357 · May 8, 2008

Color rendition, throw and proven technology are all great points in favor of the HID while on/off, instant full power at ON, and size favor an LED, in this case the P7.

But, I'd think that even at the same overall lumen output with the reflector sizes being so different between the two, each will serve a better purpose than the other in certain cases, and neither will be able to entirely replace the other. So, in true CPF fashion... buy both! :devil:

SR.GRINGO · May 8, 2008

I have on of Mac's mini-Hid's in the mail that runs on 3*17670's. I have been looking pretty hard at the new p7 from Elektrolumes. Could one run this in a cut down 1C with AW's lithium C? I have come to the realization that flashlights are much handier in smaller form factors....ie smaller than a 2d.....

bill_n_opus · May 8, 2008

Illum_the_nation said:
output...mmm, thats a pretty good question indeed :thinking:

color rendition, probably no contest assuming of course your HID is at 3300-3500K

Not sure what you meant by "output" but Elektrolumens (Wayne) is doing a 4xp7 mag mod that will output ~ 3 to 3.5k lumens (emitter lumens probably) - again, all in a mag host.

So, we're talking about something along the lines of a Polarion output but with led stability, instant on, ability to run on nimh, maybe li-ions and probably alkalines, perhaps ability to focus to a limited degree and a price maybe in the 4-700 range (less than the 2k the Polarion is asking for although the Polarion is a very nice product)

Since you can purchase a ready-made mag mod with a single p7 from Wayne for 130 plus shipping with a guaranteed c bin putting up to 900+ emitter lumens ... i'm very interested to see if he can pull off the 4xp7 mod for a cracking price relative to HID territory.

Anyways, this is all from memory from another thread. As much as I like entry level HID lights ... they typically look ugly. I want to have a mag in the car and be able to whip it out at a moment's notice ... or go trick or treating with the kids with portable sun.

f22shift · May 8, 2008

c bin is actually stated as 700-800 now.

David Gretzmier · May 9, 2008

I'm looking at comparing lights in a $400 budget max. so a $400 35watt HID in flashlight ( not some box ) form verses 4 p7's in a mag for around $400. I'm certain a $2000 highly engineered HID can out throw any P7. most of the hotstrike HID's are out of budget.

most times I need a flashlight, I need lumens within 100 feet. the wall of fire p7x4 mag will totally do that. maybe 300 feet. beyond that you'd need focus and hotspot of HID.

Rocketman · May 9, 2008

This is the kind of insanity that causes me to have that silly grin on my face.

I wonder if, after a certain point, a flashlight can throw out so much light that a new phenomena occurs.

looman · May 9, 2008

Rocketman said:
This is the kind of insanity that causes me to have that silly grin on my face.

I wonder if, after a certain point, a flashlight can throw out so much light that a new phenomena occurs.

Maybe the output and the beam will be so bright it will cause the prices to wither if the beam is shone on it for more than a few seconds

easilyled · May 9, 2008

David Gretzmier said:
So I am looking at electrolumens 4 p7 mod and wondering, why not go HID? 4 p7's will have 3600 emitter lumens, maybe 2500+ out the front. 40 "watts" . will run between 300 and 400 bucks with 3d mag and 2 lithium ion 7500mah d's or 6d mag ( gads they are huge) and 5 nimh 12000mah d's. Runtime on high? 1 hour, 2 hours? no charger included, but lithium ion d's will be. hand built, but hardly any testing or durability history at this point. floody, adjustable to a point, but 1 huge possible advantage over HID- a multi mode could make for lots of runtime, starting at 5%, then 25, 50, 100%, could make this deal for me. also, instant on.

or go with 35 watt HID. more throw. 300-400 bucks, lithium ions are typically included in a pack form, most are not nimh, batteries as well as charger typically included, 2500-3000 lumens out the front as well. manufactured and been around a few years, so arguably more reliable. run time should be around the same as the p7 mod on high, as they both will eat "35-40 watts" from similar cells. I've heard they have to "warm up" to get to the lumens. But I don't know this.

What do you guys see that I don't?

They are completely different beasts.

A 35W HID would light up trees 800 feet away.

The 4 P7 Mag has no optics so probably wouldn't reach beyond about
50 feet. It will bring daylight to your immediate surroundings.

You need to consider what you want to use the light for.

Norm · May 9, 2008

bill_n_opus said:
perhaps ability to focus to a limited degree

Check out Wayne's site Wall of Fire Modified Flashlight it has no reflector so there is nothing to focus, it will be one huge Mule; one P7 on its own without a reflector creates a huge flood this should look like one of those twin 500 Watt work light.
Norm

270winchester · May 9, 2008

SR.GRINGO said:
I have on of Mac's mini-Hid's in the mail that runs on 3*17670's. I have been looking pretty hard at the new p7 from Elektrolumes. Could one run this in a cut down 1C with AW's lithium C? I have come to the realization that flashlights are much handier in smaller form factors....ie smaller than a 2d.....

yep. I made one and love it. Penguin can testify to its brightness and thermal relief, as well as compact size

Illum · May 9, 2008

bill_n_opus said:
Not sure what you meant by "output" but Elektrolumens (Wayne) is doing a 4xp7 mag mod that will output ~ 3 to 3.5k lumens (emitter lumens probably) - again, all in a mag host.

thats a value I don't know about...thanks :grin2:

4 p7's mag verses HID?

David Gretzmier

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bill_n_opus

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Illum

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pbs357

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bill_n_opus

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f22shift

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