Arc-AAA GS or DS?

Hello,

I decided to buy an Arc-AAA.
For it's durability, quality, size and waterproofness
But I'm in doubt between DS and GS ...

The quality-problems (and protruding led) seem to have been solved.
I will be carrying it in my pocket and will be using inside and out.

The GS-version seems to have more lumens (10.5 vs 9), but an uglier beam (yellow and violet?) + oval beam.

How do they compare in real life situations (inside and outside), so no white wall hunting? Is there much difference between the DS and GS in output (outside and inside bounced)?

Is there some-one who has both and has photo's comparing both inside and outside?

Which one would you choose and why?

Thanks for the info,
Vince
Belgium

Tranx,

Based on my comparison of my Fenix E01 and my Arc AAA DS, I'd say my enthusiastic vote goes to the DS. It is hands-down the nicest beam I've ever seen out of a standard LED, and the brightness difference should be negligable unless you're using a light meter.

The GS has some beam artifacts and color but is perfectly functional. The DS should have fewer artifacts but probably similar amount of color. If you're a beam connoisseur, then with no disrespect intended this isn't the light you want. However, if you check out just about any small incandescent from the pre-led era, their beams were even worse.

If the main concern is color, maybe you want the AAA Snow (order from the accessories page). It also has artifacts but the color is greatly improved over the Nichia leds.

I do not own a ARC GS (yet!!!). However, if you are using the light for outdoor use, you will hardly notice colors and imperfections. However you will always want more brightness (if it does not sacifice to much runtime). I would go with the brightest led available.

I would go with the DS version if it were me.

this_is_nascar said:

I would go with the DS version if it were me.

Click to expand...

why is that?

I have BS, CS and DS versions. I don't have a GS version, but I do have both DS and GS LEDs and the GS is substantially brighter than the DS.

I can't approximate lumens, but I can measure lux and the difference ranges from about 26% to about 53% brighter.

I don't understand the comments about an oval beam. It's not oval, it's round. With effort, you can discern that the hot spot is rectangular and not square, but it's an effort on my part. In use, you can't tell a difference. My observations are based on just the LED, not with a 'reflector.'

There are more artifacts in the GS than the DS, but again in practical use, it makes no difference.

I'd go with the newer, brighter LED.

kitelights said:

I have BS, CS and DS versions. I don't have a GS version, but I do have both DS and GS LEDs and the GS is substantially brighter than the DS.

Click to expand...

This seems to say two different things by accident, can you fix? I can't tell what you mean.

I don't understand the comments about an oval beam. It's not oval, it's round. With effort, you can discern that the hot spot is rectangular and not square, but it's an effort on my part. In use, you can't tell a difference. My observations are based on just the LED, not with a 'reflector.'

Click to expand...

The GS has an oval or anyway non-round hot spot. It's not a problem in practice.

There are more artifacts in the GS than the DS, but again in practical use, it makes no difference.

Click to expand...

I basically agree with that, with the reservation that by the time you've bought more than 2 or 3 of these things, you've probably buying for reasons that go beyond "practical use", and therefore the artifacts may matter to you. I have a BS, CS, GS, and Snow, and the BS and CS have considerably cleaner beams than the GS or Snow. The GS is the brightest and the Snow has the best color. I don't have a DS yet, but I gather it is like the CS except a little brighter. The GS is more of a departure (different physical shape, rectangular die) and so the beam profile has changed in addition to the brightness. It also sounds like the GS has more tint variation.

I'd go with the newer, brighter LED.

Click to expand...

CPF motto: buy both

paulr said:

This seems to say two different things by accident, can you fix? I can't tell what you mean.

Click to expand...

he means he has the bare LEDs....not the ARC versions

I've got ARCs with 3 different LEDs in them: BS, CS, DS. I do not have a GS ARC, but I have loose GS LEDs as well as loose DS LEDs.

The overall beam is round, the hot spot is not, however it is surrounded by a round ring. I honestly don't know what the correct definition of 'beam' is. I take it to be the overall pattern of light. If it doesn't include the corona and spill, then I'm wrong.

The CS and DS have square dies, but the hotspot isn't distinct enough to call it a square. The corona is round so it has the appearance of round.

The GS has a rectangular die, so the hot spot is wider than it is tall, and has, like you said, not a round hot spot, but it does have a round corona and the spill is round. So the overall beam is round.

I just don't think it's accurate to describe the beam pattern as oval. I expected oval, but didn't see it. I had to put forth an effort to see what about it was oval.

I'm really not trying to be anal, I just think that we're doing a disservice by making others expect an oval beam, that in reality is not.

It's kinda like the way we over disclose flaws in lights that we sell on B/S/T. If there wasn't a picture of the flaw with a blown up macro, the buyer wouldn't even know that it was there.

i have both the DS and GS (unlike a lot of posters so far). as long as the LED isnt protruding (new ones shouldnt) then just go for the GS. tint and hotspot and beam quality are all acceptable, youre not going for a perfect beam when you get an Arc-AAA P. so in that case, the GS is brighter, why not. the hotspot is definitely oval, especially when compared side by side. but it just means the hotspot is bigger, and appears brighter.

get a GS, make sure it stands flat/flush when stood on its head, and enjoy.

Hello,

First of all, thanks for the usefull info and opinions.
And thanks for the new "addiction" ...
(already considering buying a Fenix L0D as supplement for when more light is needed.)

To "This Is Nascar"

Quote:
Originally Posted by this_is_nascar
I would go with the DS version if it were me.


Is it because of your bad experiences with the gs (I read it all in horror on CPF) or for an other reason? Could you please give some extra info.

To all:
I am not looking for the perfect beam or color.
From what I've read this is impossible with 5mm leds.

What I'm looking for is a durable, quality and waterproof light with a usefull beam (not a thrower, rather some flood). One I could always trust to be there when needed.

Is there a large intensity difference between hotspot and spill light with the two leds (DS vs GS) or are they similar? I mean e.g. is the hotspot superbright, while the spill is very "weak" or is there less difference between hotspot and spill (gradual transition or quite even brightness)?
I'm not looking for a narrow tunnel of light, rather more of a wall (not as really wide as the zebralight, but certainly no tunnel) of light? Just trying to make clear what I want.

I understand the GS-hotspot is some kind of a rectangle/oval while the DS-Hotspot is square/rond, while the beam on both is round. Sorry for the possibly bad descriptions, but english is not my native language. Both seem to pose no problem to me.

The led-lights I currently own (all 5mm leds):
> a keychain led light (noname)
http://www.velleman.be/product/view/?lang=en&id=366256
> petzl zipka (the oldest version)
> petzl e+lite
> some nameless inova x5 clone on 2AA
> pelican L1 (older version, not newest led? 7 lumen?)
=> Is the arc-aaa ds or gs comparable to one of these?

incan lights:
> maglite solitaire = my first edc light
> 2aa maglite clones

Thanks for all the answers,
Vince
Belgium

The DS and GS will both be comparable to your L1 with fresh cells, give or take a little. The L1 has an older led but uses four button cells so it's overdriven even more severely than the Arcs. The GS is a little brighter than the DS but has more beam artifacts. However, it does seem to me that the spate of QC problems that it had have been cleaned up. I got one a couple weeks ago with no obvious problems. I have a sort-of review of it on the Arc GS thread.

dd61999 said:

why is that?

Click to expand...

I prefer the beam and the tint of the DS over the GS. It doesn't mean the GS is unusable, it's just my preference.

hi tranx

now i only have a arc ds and a few older models but when i compare the ds to my fenix eo1 i much rather the tint and beam patter of the ds. dont think u will notice much difference in the lumen output between the ds or gs. think arc under estimate there lumen output

i find the ds bright enough with a nice hotspot and plenty of sidespill when i run it on lithiums or on alkalines, was suprised how much throw the arc ds has.

hope this is some help:thumbsup:

:twothumbs Thanks for all the helpfull and informative answers.

At the moment my preference goes to the DS.
But I will search for the GS review and read it thourougly.

Is it normal that I still have no answer on a mail sent to [email protected] on 16 may 2008? Today I resent it hoping for an answer. It was a question about delivery-options.
I really want to order one ...

Hearing the output is comparable to the pelican L1 is a good reference (thanks). This kind of output is enough for most of my intended uses, and this on (eneloop?) AAA in stead of the coin cells of the Peli L1.

In the future I might buy a Fenix L0D and/or liteflux AAA, for when more or less light is needed, and maybe a Arc-AAA GS (when happy with the DS).
When I'm happy with the Arc-AAA, I think about getting one for my wife too. Thanks CPF for the new addiction that is forming.

I will keep you informed of my choices and my findings when I receive the light.

Thanks,
Vince
Belgium

There are stories around that the GS is 10 percent brighter than the DS, but only has 10 percent of the life expectancy of the DS.

Maybe Peter can clarify this.

If true this might help you choose what LED to go with.

The GS is typically about 12 lumens (10.5min) while the DS is typically about 10.5 (9min) lumens. This is about 20% more lumens. The GS has a larger spot so the throw is about similiar. The GS uses the same die as the DS but there are multiple dies in the package. This distributes the heat over more die area, which should contribute to a longer life span. Both lights have a lifetime warranty, which includes the LED.

peter

Gransee said:

The GS is typically about 12 lumens (10.5min) while the DS is typically about 10.5 (9min) lumens. This is about 20% more lumens. The GS has a larger spot so the throw is about similiar. The GS uses the same die as the DS but there are multiple dies in the package. This distributes the heat over more die area, which should contribute to a longer life span. Both lights have a lifetime warranty, which includes the LED.

peter

Click to expand...

Peter, the Nichia web page is a little confusing wrt their table notes. On the GS it looks like it may indicate a dual die, however, there is just one rectangular die. I sacrificed one in this thread.

Paul

Thanks Chimo.

I am fine with one die or several dice. Either way, the die area is increased.

peter