Reality check.

OK guys. things are moving right along in terms of the advancement of emitter technology. Drivers seem to moving along at a slightly slower pace but they are moving along too.

OK we all know how easy it is to buy a flashlight with an insanely bright emitted light.

We also know how to find lights with decent runtime.


We are beginning to see lights with better tints as well.


So what is this about?

What is important to you?
Runtime? Why?
Brightness? Why?
Tint? Why?
Heavy duty?
Combination of any three of these components of the Utility of a light?

Look it is easy to say " I want 'em all".
But that isn't today's reality not really.

I am very interested in why extremely high output is so important to some of you.


I would also like to know why runtime is important to you as it refers to your use of a flashlight.

Do you think that the tint of an emitter is important? what about it's CRI number? Is that important?

Are you just thinking "Ah forget all of this. It is all a bunch of BS numbers just give me a light which works and is cheap"?


Here is where I am at if you care.
I am pretty much past my "I have to have the brightest thing out there" phase. I have plenty of flashlights which are bright as hell. Honestly they don't see that much use.
I have moved closer to pure usability, runtime and I feel myself moving closer to wanting flashlights with great tints and the ability to render colors very well.
I for one am most excited by the new advancements in the area of the quality of light. What about you?
As you may know I am EDCing a Lunasol.
I get a lot of utility from either one. Of late the Lunasol 20 has been my main EDC. What do I get from this light. A lot not the least of which is a over 2 hour runtime on high. 2 good beams, and a very WHITE high beam.
No I don't get the best color rendering. That is OK for my edc porpoises.
I work in the Motion picture industry and use my lights EVERY DAY at work.

That is an important point in this thread. Many people do not use lights at work and have completly different needs for a light.
I for one would be lost at work without a light. Especially at night when working outside. Electricians are always in a hurry to go home and have no problem turning OFF the power making for a very DARK work space.

OK so where are you people at with all of this?
In many ways we are at an amazing place in the development of LED's. New advancements are happening all the time. Some are related to output, some are efficiency, and some related to the quality of the emitted light.
Where are you at?
Yaesumofo

What is important to you?
Runtime? Why?
Brightness? Why?
Tint? Why?
Heavy duty?
Combination of any three of these components of the Utility of a light?

Click to expand...

Here's my take.

We all come from many different walks of life and careers. Each of us has a different set of needs based on what we do.

Personally, my EDC bag is my laptop bag. I work in Information Technology. There are those times when I'm on a project literally all night. Sometimes I get to be the (unlucky) one who has to wire up a rack or run cables. I may find myself at a datacenter behind servers or a cage full of network gear. I might be working inside computers, servers, or even crawling under people's desks or working behind office furniture. And then there are those times where I am simply at a desk doing actual domain/GPO/network admin and I drop something such as a thumb drive and it invariably bounces and heads under something, right where it is impossible to get to.

So for these needs, a good tough light is a good thing to have when I have to work up in the ceiling or under the raised datacenter floor. Dropping your light from up in the ceiling can be bad since it's usually about a 9 to 12' fall to concrete or hard floor. The light gets banged around a bit in this kind of use so a good solid light is desirable. This ties in with reliability. I need the thing to work when I am at a client site doing time-sensitive work on their infrastructure.

Long runtimes are great. This is why I like my Inova X5 so much - it will provide good usable light for an entire weekend of work if it has to. No it's not close to the brightest out there, but it has very good battery life. This way, if I am doing a project for a full weekend and need my light for most of it, I need not worry about having to switch batteries after a couple of hours. Most of the work I do is close-up work with the occasional venture into a dark office. The lower brightness is very good for this sort of up-close work.

Long throw? Nice to have for outdoors and hiking, which I plan to do a bit, but I'm not so much a long distance adventurer. It would be nice to have a light with good throw, but it's not necessary for my EDC light

Accurate tint is mostly a luxury to me. When you are doing wiring, it's good to be able to tell blue from green and red from orange, especially when the leads are tiny. Most newer LED flashlights are plenty good in this area for me.

So for me, my EDC light is my Inova X5 (3rd gen). It lasts for plenty of hours and it's tough enough for what I do. Well made as well and feels good in the hand. Lanyard comes in handy for preventing drops in the first place and acts as a handy way to hang it above what I am doing. Water resistance isn't an issue in my line of work. If my light gets waterlogged, I'm in much deeper trouble than just having a flooded flashlight!

And then there's home use. I collect arcade games and pinball machines. I have to work on them from time to time. Even though it has kind of a crappy beam, my Stanley MaxLife tripod flashlight has proven VERY handy for lighting up the underside of a playfield or inside an arcade cabinet. (If they could just take a good flood head and put it onto that design...)

For handheld light when I need it around the house, again, I always reach for my X5. So for my needs and budget, I consider my $35 Inova X5 a great purchase. I get all sorts of runtime, both for convenience and savings - I get months out of a set of batteries, it's rugged enough to withstand my daily use, and the light output satisfies my needs both on the job and around the house.

For outdoor use, I am strongly considering an Inova T2. Perfect size, good throw, and 4 hour runtime, along with typical Inova build quality, make this a very attractive light for the price.

Do you want info even from us newbees (four led lights, more on the way)?

I am interested in opinions of anybody who is interested in learning more about the current reality of flashlights emitters and how we use them in our lives.

One group which may not have a lot to say are those who buy flashlights but don't actually use them. they go from package to drawer or case or safe as opposed to package to holster to hip Every day carry and use.
I suspect that there are those who love flashlights because they are cool and some are beautiful not because they are tools.
To each his or her own.
Yaesumofo

In depth knowledge of the technology is not necessary for knowing what you want out of a light, and everybody's input is welcome. For me, right now, my major issue is form factors and UI. I'm fine with the technology we have now as far as emitter efficiency, tint, cell capacity, etc. Now all I'm waiting for is for someone to put all those things together the way I want them.

For me at least, I think that about a year ago when Cree and Seoul put out their high power high efficiency led's it was a MAJOR step forward for EDC.

I currently EDC a 120P, i use it daily, usually at 60l, for dog walking, checking out dark corners at work, camping, hiking, etc. At 60 lumens I can run the same battery for about 6 weeks. So it's economical, plenty bright, and finally compact enough to really EDC.

Now as higher tech lights come out I can get more of this, more of that, blah blah blah. I don't really need it. I have an 800 lumen light that's just for fun and bump in the night, but for me, having a edc light with plenty of light and running more than 30 min was a HUGE step for me.

I feel that reliability is the single most important thing I want in a flashlight.

Runtime is important too.

I like multimode lights for runtime as I don't appreciate 100 lumens for midnight bathroom trips.

Brightness is important... Sometimes. I usually find that I am happy with less than 50 lumens.

I like lights that can (dimly) run off cells that are nearly dead for emergencies.

I find that LED tint is (usually) acceptable. I have had few issues with tint. Ideally a warm tint is preferable.

If I could have only one light it would be a multimode light with a low, low mode and no gimmicks.

I hope I haven't forgot anything important...

User interface and reasonable total cost of ownership/operation are high on my list. For the lights I CARRY, reliability tops those two. I don't mind a light that costs $200, but I don't want one that costs $200/year.

I remember a time when couple of Mag 4Cs on nicads + a lamp upgrade, a couple of Mini Mags, likewise upgraded, and one Surefire 6 Original were all I needed. Two decades later (4 years ago) I thought Mags were all but useless. Then came LED upgrades.

I find Terralux. MAG, DX, and other drop-ins, with Li-Ions and hi-cap NiMH cells have breathed new life into my lights, and new light into my life. I have not bought a new light in months, but I have a "new light" every week or two, with upgrades, mods, and hotwires.

My focus right now is more on cost effective quality, and usability, rather than edge-of-the-art type upgrades. No P7s with triple-stacked ya-ya drivers on my keychain.

I'm a technician. Also I'm a machinist. I started EDCing a flashlight when I got an Arc LS back when they were the only ones selling lights with Luxeon emitters.

I use my light everyday as well. Looking in nooks and crannies, reading labels inside of electrical cabinets and such, and then of course, at home and other places when I need a light.

Size is important. I carried an Arc LS, then a Surefire U2 (that I was lucky to come across). I'd been lusting over the HDS EDCs, but was unwilling to pony up the dough to buy one until they went on sale. Carried that one for a year (a B42). Wanted an Ultimate version, but decided to spend less and get a B42. Loved it. Great light. After using it, I wanted the easy programming that a U series offered, only that they were NLA. So I pre-ordered a Novatac because I really wanted to have a spare of my B42 in case I lost it. Got the Novatac and have carried it ever since.

I like the small(ish) form factor of the EDC series. I'm happy with the 123 cell as a battery.

I'm not hung up on brightness. It is nice to be able to use max occasionally when I need it, but I tend to use as little light for the job, because runtime is more important to me than brightness. I don't like excessive consumption of batteries. This is why I've never been interested in Surefire incandescents, they always appeared to be voracious battery eaters and were very bright, which I normally don't need.

For me, flashlights are a tool. I don't collect them for the sake of collecting. I don't really want to collect them at all, but I do buy newer and better ones occasionally. I use them, I drop them, I don't baby them. Therefore, durability is also important. Reliability is of course favored, but I'm seldom in a situation in which a dead light would lead to an unfortunate outcome.

I'm definitely a fan of multilevel lights, because you can tailor the light to ones needs.

yaesumofo said:

So what is this about?

What is important to you?
Runtime? Why?
Brightness? Why?
Tint? Why?
Heavy duty?
Combination of any three of these components of the Utility of a light?

Click to expand...

Well.. As for my line of work, I am a musician.. As such, I don't need a light with me for work, so my EDC is purely for general tasks during the evening and night or any other ordinary use (car work, finding stuff in a closet, whatever)..
However, I am quite active outdoors during the evening, I do a lot of walking in the woods when I have time, and I tend to travel a lot, so I choose to seek out lights which are highly dependable, easy to use, and functional for many purposes.

.. I think that runtime is one of the most important features of a light. Primaries (CR123) are costly and somewhat difficult to find in stores. RCR's are fantastic, but due to chemistry they have a somewhat limited capacity. Therefore a light that makes the most efficient use of these two chemistries is ideal, even if output must be modest to compensate drain.

Brightness for LED's is a strange thing... At the higher lumen levels, often times a difference in 20-30 Lumen above 90 Lumen isn't going to make an extreme amount of difference in the visibility of distant objects. However, due to the logarithmic aspect of our vision, a larger jump (80lm) does improve visibility at distance. Brightness is relative to the intended use of the light, so a blend of throw, level ramping, and efficiency is ideal. After all, higher peak output means longer runtime at lower levels... I'd say that 170 Lumen for 1 hour would be decent, with the ability to lower output and extend battery life. Obviously, this varies from person to person and is subjective.

Tint, on the other hand, is extremely important to me.. I am one of the supporters of Guaranteed Tint as produced by HDS Systems on their EDC line.. For my uses when walking in the woods, color rendition is indispensable, especially if it is a multi-level light that I have programmed to put out maybe 1 Lumen to preserve night-vision, yet still illuminate the path in front of me.. If I had a say in torch production, I think that GT should be implemented on all advancing lights, or like the "Sundrop" by McGizmo at least put out a similar wavelength pattern of the sun during high noon. This is very important to me and I cannot stress it enough. Please manufacturers, focus on simulating natural wavelength white light.

Ah, heavy duty... This is also subjective per users needs... I would argue that the Ra Twisty is the epitome of heavy-duty EDC torches. It can take a beating beyond that which our human body can reasonably withstand, and as such I highly approve of it.. Now, for instance, the Surefire Dominator 10x could be considered heavy-duty because of it's size and output.. Or even perhaps a 3D maglight, in terms of its size and weight... They can be used as a club in self defense, or provide a certain girth which people may need for their particular uses. .. Heavy duty can also be found in say the Streamlight Propoly in the sense that it can be used in hazardous environments, withstand hard drops and extreme temperatures..

My most sought after combination is, in order of importance: Heavy-duty EDC (Ra twisty/clicky), Tint (HDS EDC GT or equivalent), and Runtime..
Put these things together with a functional UI that isn't cluttered with 'features' but instead with 'usability' and you'll have a winner in my book..

Thanks for asking, yaesu.

Well I'm a extremly new newbie lol, not just to the forum but to all things flashlight based really.

For my main use of a flashlight ATM is gun mounted for feral pest control with subject being 30-50meters away. Most folks use a red filter for this kind of work so high out-put (brightness) and Heavy Duty would be my main two needs. Run time isn't really so important as I only use a pressure switch and the light is only on for a second.

That said I'd like as long a run time as I can get as it's less energy wasted which is always better for the environment and my hip pocket.

My flashlight is probably the most important tool I have on my duty belt I use it at least a half hour every single night I work. I use my black Fenix T1. Its brightness is great for traffic stops, felony incidents, ect... and the lower mode is perfect for the long haul uses (last week I had a DOA in this old ladys house that did not have electricity in the upstairs she had passed away in her bathroom) I only work nights and flashlight failure is NOT an option. That T1 has been a very sturdy replacement for the 6p or mag-lite/streamlight style lights. as far as the tint I have no complaints espically when I am next to other officers with their dim warbled beams blasting a goofy looking yellow shadowy images over things.
Of course Ive gone through the I want the brightest stage and still maintain a bit of that (hope I never lose it) but a light shuch as the T1 could last me the rest of my career and I would be satisfied.
Oh yeah I want it all, bright, long running, bombproo,f compact, barn burning, aircraft landing, only cost 50 dollars lights. but I'll wait and I'm excited to see what the future holds(p7 does not look to promising to me but thats just my opinion.

Oh yeah I go through a set of batteries about every other week (spare set on the belt just in case)

Runtime? Why?
I once figured if a blackout occurs when I am 1 bus ride away from home I might need 3 hours of light. Unfortunately most EDCable lights have runtimes less than that on high. Finally got Elektrolumens to make me a Lucidus XR-1 - 3.5 hours of Fenix L1P brightness. Multi-mode lights won't do, I will probably cross the parking lot to the bus stop on high, forget to switch to low and be a dark dead duck before the 1st hour is up.

Brightness? Why?
Fenix L1P is the minimum brightness I look for (~30 lumens). Ever since I got my SSC-P7 light I have not used much else though.

Tint? Why?
Excessive blue purple hurts my eyes. Green is plain ugly (unless I'm crossing a lawn). Luxeon XO,WO; SSC SXO,SWO; Cree WC,WD to warm white is acceptable.

Heavy duty?
As long as the light does not fall apart on it's own I'm happy. Don't climb mountains, fall down caves etc. so my lights don't get banged around a lot.

I usually get by with an Inova X1 (Gen 2). It's bright enough to see and not bright enough to blind. I use flashlights mainly in and around the house. I use them inside the house to navigate when all the lights are off--lot easier on the eyes than a regular bulb. I use them outside for walking to the garage, through the yard, etc.

I have some really bright lights, but they almost never get used. These days, I go primarily for usability and runtime.

Here are my needs, for EDC, in no particular order:

Tactical forward clickie
Comes on high first[for CCW reasons] - 80 torch lumens minimum.
Multiple levels - equates to runtime
Bezel down pocket clip
Nice, white beam
A nice mix of throw and flood.

My NovaTac 85T with a P tailcap fits the bill nicely. It's back up is my previous primary EDC - IncenDio.

I'm not at the point in my life where I am willing to always pay a premium for the most solid/reliable/quality things, so value is of utmost importance to me.

There must then be some compromise whether it be reliability or something seemingly as basic as quality control on and off the presses. However there are a few 'bargain' brands that are usually a hit, enough that I can live with it.

Reality will change immediately if I start making more money

For me I like a light that is high quality and is small enough to carry in my pocket without too much notice. I am intrigued by EFFICIENCY and the ability for a light to put out a good amount of light for considerable time (which defers to many).

I think high output is relatively easy to obtain if you just drive the emitter as high as possible without regard to how efficient you are doing it. Even cheap lights can be pretty bright. It is a high quality/well engineered light that impresses me (premium LED, efficient circuit, flexible UI, and solid construction). I typically use medium to low output with my lights and aslo a very low. I seldom use full-out output except just to provide wow.

I would rather have a light that puts out a nice amount of light in the medium rage that would seem to last forever on a single battery than a light that was super bright for only 30 minutes.

Runtime, durability, and brightness all go together for my needs.

For camping and hiking a light needs to have good runtime and durability.
Arc AAA and SF E1L (w/KX1), Petzl Tikka Plus.

For general use around the house it's all about runtime.
Pak-Lite and Arc AAA.

For any self-defense situation it's all about brightness and durability.
SF 6PL and E1B for this role.

yaesumofo said:

One group which may not have a lot to say are those who buy flashlights but don't actually use them. they go from package to drawer or case or safe as opposed to package to holster to hip Every day carry and use.

Yaesumofo

Click to expand...

As a very proud owner of someones ex-DamCham I stand up for the rights of those who might like the odd light as a shelf queen:nana:.

However, I am not a collector, I am a user, I have just "collected" a few in the search for the perfect user.

My needs, in order of preference are thus;

• Lumens/Runtime ratio - I like to be able to match my lumens to task or battery power in the event that some tasks don't need max and sometimes lack of battery power may catch you unawares. In an EDC 60-100 max at a min of 90 mins regulated and a low which runs for 10 hours plus is my benchmark. Multi-modes are good but if I could only choose one light I'd go for reliability of simple/mechanical two stage over complex/electronic multi stage.
• Beamshape - whilst I appreciate flood and understand many, including you Mofo, need a good flood, I prefer a medium thrower with a good spill (TiPD-S Style and to a marginally lesser extent HDS & Nova) for the simple fact that it meets my uses/needs more.
• Reliability, Materials and Design Quality - can't get enough of this - nuff said? This would have been my first choice but ultimately a light needs to provide light and light that is useful - thus this is relegated to third.
• Tint - realistic colour rendition is an clear goal and very, VERY important, however I have survived without it as long as I have yearned for it. Important but not a deciding factor, but likley to become one as tints/CRI LEDs become more widespread.
• Battery Type - CR123 are a power house for their size, I've colected loads and for the time being am commited to this format. Ability to use RCR123s is a bonus but not a prerequisite.
• Size - Single cell
• Maker/Company - I have a preference for those that have proved worthy of long term respect from customers.
• Looks - I'll carry an ugly light but it will need to have redeeming features above and beyond those listed above, there's just no excuse for an ugly light. I will however accept this is very subjective judgement.