MAG's Comments on Temperature Issues

MAG\'s Comments on Temperature Issues

Today I asked Don Keller, Mag's Director of Sales [(909)-947-1006 extension 2000], the following questions:

Q.) How high a wattage bulb can I put into a standard Mag D or Mag C without distorting the reflector or the lens?

Answers) We don't know because we haven't tested to find the failure point. The Polycarbonate reflector is rated to remain stable at 340 degrees F. The gap between bulb and reflector provides an increased margin. Mag is considering introducing higher output premium bulbs in the next year which might include Xenon or Halogen.

The plastic lens is the weak link and is most vulnerable to distortion when focused to a wide flood. The glass lens for the Mag D and Mag C can handle 600 degrees F, but it is "rather fragile". Unfortunately, the tempered glass lens of the Mag Charger won't fit into the Mag D. (The glass lens for the Mag D, will, however, fit into the Mag charger.)

Unfortunately, the Mag Charger reflector assembly will not fit into a Mag D head.

Don expressed interest in my quest for a brighter Mag and requested that I report any distortion threshhold I encounter to him. I let him know about the 9AA cell Mag 3D I've successfully run with NiMH's (3 @ D cell sized battery packs) and a Carley 10 V 0.8 A bulb and a UKE 14 W 8 cell bulb -- each in a Carley 912 PR socket adapter. I advised him that my next test will be a Carley 10.5 V 1.2 A bulb.

Q.) Am I likely to have problems with the Minimag and the W/A 01121 Halogen bulb rated at 2.4 V 1.1 A and 28L?

A.) Don guessed that I'd be more likely to have a deformation problem with the Minimag because of the small space handling the heat. I responded by saying that I might buy the mineral crystal lenses discussed on CPF and I'd have to drill a larger center hole in the reflector. Don was also curious to hear how this experiment turned out.

Re: MAG\'s Comments on Temperature Issues

Clark,

And ya didn't ask him about MagLite LEDs??? You should tell him Streamlight and SureFire all comin' out with LEDs, and about CMG Reactor, and Luxeons, and what Lambda/ElektroLumens/Ramsey, etc. are doin'...!

Re: MAG\'s Comments on Temperature Issues

Charlie:

With all the Mag bashing on this site I thought I'd make my inquiry narrow and focused. Opalec seems to work fine for folks and the Ill pill will be nice to have when available. As functional mods exist I didn't have a compelling LED question to ask of Mag.

As you know, I tend to wonder how hard I can push incandescent lights and their components before they bend. I was actually surprised that Mag itself didn't seem to have tested the limits on their own product.

BTW, I've found that my 9AA Mag 3D mod can tighten the focus considerably with the 14W UKE 8 cell bulb in the Carley 912 Socket. Because of the tall filament height I had to loosen the bezel almost as much as with the DB4AA set up for 6 123's with a W/A 6.27 V 1.92 A bulb that's winging its way to you.

I bought a Mag Charger 6.0 V Halogen bulb for $4.95 at Fry's last week. Klaus thinks it is about 1.6 A and about 160 L at 6.0 V. I think I'll plug it into a Carley 912 PR Base in a Mag 2D slightly overdriven with two @ 3AA NiMH battery packs. With some risk of short bulb life, this might also work nicely overdriven in a serial DB6AA with NiMHs. The overdriving should push the Lumens over 200 in the mid to high 6.X volt range. The MagCharger bulb may make an affordable bulb choice that is widely available. The filament height is shorter than the standard DB bulb so I don't yet know if I can tighten the DB bezel far enough for good focus.

Re: MAG\'s Comments on Temperature Issues

Thanks for the most informative reply, sound like that Mag has a very wide range of focus now.

My DB4AA is set up for SIX 123s? If so, then Thank God I have about eighty of them sitting here right now...

As for the bulb, is it readily available or must one go to Welch-Allyn (and am I even spelling it right)? I just realized what the bulb life (or death) on this monster must be like.

Re: MAG\'s Comments on Temperature Issues

Mr Bulk...how did you get 6 123's into your DB4AA? I have a DB4AA and would love to do that to mine as well.

Do you run a different bulb in it as well?

Re: MAG\'s Comments on Temperature Issues

Chris,

if you remove the plastic inserts 17mm cells fit fine in the DBs - the bulb is a WA 01148.

Klaus

Re: MAG\'s Comments on Temperature Issues

Charlie:

Remember that your DB4AA is set up for 6 123's in serial / parallel with all positive nipples pointing toward the head. The nominal 9V setup will drop to somewhere between 7.0 and 7.5 V overdriving the bulb.

I traded with Klaus to get 2 of the W/A 01148 bulbs, including the one you have. I'm talking about relieving him of more of his excess supply.

If your bulb fails you might (at least temporarily) want to put in a high amperage 6V no-name 20W bi-pin available at places like Home Depot. Also, Carley has a T-2 1/2 bulb #852 rated at 6.0 V 3.30 A 19.8 W and slightly > 500 Lumens that you can buy w/o minimum. The higher amperage will cause a greater voltage drop than with the W/A bulb.

Chris:

I found that I had to unscrew the DB4AA head (first 2 screws for the switch/lamp assembly and then 2 screws in the head unit to the battery chambers) to remove the inserts. I drove them out with a hammer and screwdriver.

Re: MAG\'s Comments on Temperature Issues

LOL,

seems we had this discussion already and that either the DBs are different or my fingers are stronger or smaller than lemlux´ fingers.

On my DB4AA is was sufficient to insert my finger (don´t remember which one) and just lightly bend it befor removing the finger with the insert - I will take no responsibility whatssoever for lost or broken fingers for CPF members trying to remove their DB inserts by "hand" based on this post.

Klaus

Re: MAG\'s Comments on Temperature Issues

Chris:

I was able to remove the inserts on one of 4 DB4AA's w/o a hammmer, but I did need to use the screw driver. Maybe you'll get lucky with a flashlight with battery chamber ID's on the high side of the tolerance band with inserts with OD's on the low side. It will save effort unless you want to convert the DB to serial in which case you'll need to dissassemble anyhow.

Re: MAG\'s Comments on Temperature Issues

Hi lemlux,
I am off for the world cup this month.. ha ha

did you know the capacity for battery of Mag charger ? as it already use a 6V 10W bulb replace it with a 6V 20W will be fun! for it already have what you wants.(metal reflector, tempered glass len)
thanks

Re: MAG\'s Comments on Temperature Issues

Snake:

The MagCharger battery capacity is only 2.2 Ah.

BTW, last night I set up three of my DB4AA's in serial / parallel with 2 * 3 123's. I compared beams from the following bulbs:

W/A 01315 6.27 V 1.42 A $7.18 @
W/A 01148 6.30 V 1.92 A $5.76 @
MagCharger bulb 6.0 V approx 1.6 A $4.95 @ at Frys.

Edit: Today I set up a fourth DB 4AA with a W/A 01111 6.00 V 3.35 A 100 hour 464 Lumen bulb that sells for $2.10. I bought ten of these puppies. This bulb is going to be the star of my Carley aluminum reflector project lights with two or more 7.2 V battery packs.

My three other DB4AA M6 Wannabe lights aren't with me at the moment, so I can't compare brightness right now. This combination is very white and bright but not at all kind to the plastic given it's wattage.

To my surprise, the 01315 seemed to be slightly brighter than the 01148. I guess this is because the lower voltage drop on the 01135's lower amperage overdrives the 01135 more. The tradeoff is probably bulb life. The 01315 focuses nicely, but the 01148 needs to be focused almost where the bezel falls off -- thus it needs to be taped in place.

The 6.0 V Halogen MagCharger bulb is much dimmer and yellower driven by 2 * 3 123's -- even though it's design voltage is the lowest of the three. Mag apparently chose a long-life low efficiency automotive type bulb. The shorter filament height is not a problem in the DB as there remains plenty of focusing room. The MagCharger bulb would appear to be regarded as a backup in the event that better bulbs are difficult to get on short notice.

Carley has Two Halogen 6.0 V T-2 1/2 bulbs that will fit in a Mag Charger. They are only rated at between 20 and 40 hours life compared to the longer life W/A bulbs so I wouldn't overdrive them in this application or in a 6 cell DB.

Carley's 852 T-2 1/2 bulb is rated at 3.3A and 495 Lumens for 40 hours.
Carley's 851 T-2 1/2 bulb is rated at 1.7 A and 247 Lumens for 20 hours.
Carley's

Re: MAG\'s Comments on Temperature Issues

Greg at Brightguy today graciously went out to his warehouse and confirmed that the Mag Charger $2.95 tempered glass lens does indeed fit the Mag D and Mag C heads even though Mag didn't think it was compatible.

I'll be buying a bunch of the tempered lenses for my Mags and to epoxy onto the end of Carley 2" reflectors for various project lights.

Re: MAG\'s Comments on Temperature Issues

Hi Lemlux,
certainly that is better to fit tempered glass and AL reflector on normal D or C mag as you get more choice on battery!
but here at Hong Kong there is no such thing.. so MAG charger is a good base for those high power 6V bulb.

we don't have WA here I only found OSRAM.
p/n# 54019 6V 20W 480lm 100hr at HK$45 -> that is USD5.77

thanks for your info 2.2A may light up that bulb for 40min? or less...but it bright as a M6 with rings and cheaper.. ho ho
bye

Re: MAG\'s Comments on Temperature Issues

Be careful. I used the 30W (about 2.5A) lamp in the UKE D8 with alkalines and it put out LESS light than the stock 14W (a bit over 1A). You MAY be disappointed at least with alkalines in this situation. Nicads/NiMHs would probably be OK.

Cheers,

Richard

Re: MAG\'s Comments on Temperature Issues

Richard:

I have never seen an alkaline bulb rated at more than 1.25 A. The 1.25 A bulb is a proprietary 5.0 V HPR bulb sold by Ikelite and manufactured by Carley.

I have used both the 13 W and 18W UKE bulbs in my UKE 1200 with NiCads. The 13 W bulb is specified for alkalines or rechargeables. UKE doesn't specify the design voltage but, at around 10.0 to 10.4 it would be around the same 1.25 A The 18 W bulb is specified as being only for rechargeables. Generally the Dive light manufacturers caution use of the 30W bulbs for more than a few minutes when not submerged.

Snake: I'm losing it. I forgot that I today received 10@ W/A #01111 6.0 V 3.35 A 464 L bulbs. I plan on using them in project lights with two or more 7.2V 2450 mAh NiMH battery packs. The M/C NiCad battery pack would have a modest voltage drop, but that's the same type of pack that runs the 20W SL-35 bulb. The SL pack is higher rated 200 mAh higher than Mag at 2400 mAh.

Re: MAG\'s Comments on Temperature Issues

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lemlux:
Charlie:

If your bulb fails you might (at least temporarily) want to put in a high amperage 6V no-name 20W bi-pin available at places like Home Depot. Also, Carley has a T-2 1/2 bulb #852 rated at 6.0 V 3.30 A 19.8 W and slightly > 500 Lumens that you can buy w/o minimum. The higher amperage will cause a greater voltage drop than with the W/A bulb.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Clark,

Will the Carley T-2 1/2 #852 require to-the-edge bezel focusing as with the 01148? Also where would I get the 01315 which does not require the bezel to be turned out as far? (you can e-mail me if you wish)

Thanks.