Surefire build quality

How would the build quality on a Surefire E2DL compare with a Fenix TK10? The Fenix looks really tough but should I expect the Surefire to be more so? I was thinking the switch definitely would be.
I was going to get the Fenix but have decided I like the Surefire more, it just seems to be better thought out and that less is likely to go wrong. My other choice was a Novatac 120, I still really like it but for some reason settled on the Surefire.

Well, both lights are built solidly. I have a Fenix P1, L2P, and a T1 which is built like a tank with good weight and feel. I also have a TON of Surefire's; more than you could imagine. Personally, I prefer the build quality of Surefire over Fenix. Maybe it's in the knurling, or maybe it's just the name, but quite honestly, I think Surefire's are just a notch above as far as build quality goes.

I hope I didn't just open a can of worms with what I just said. I can hear it now...Round 573742, Surefire vs. Fenix

I don't really want to start a brand war, but I really I think it would be common sense for Surefire's to be built better than Fenix, otherwise you would not pay more. Fenix are extremely good value for the money though.
What are the Novatac's like in comparison to Surefire, I am looking at getting myself a really fine torch and these are the brands I feel fit that requirement. Does anyone have a beam shot of the Surefire E2DL vs the Novatac 120. I tend to like the longer skinnier lights and that is the main reason for liking the Surefire, I also love simplicity.

Unless you are parachuting into crocodile infested rivers, sneaking up on enemy combatants, crawling miles through the mud, and then diving to the core of a nuclear reactor....they are both so overbuilt as to be ridiculous. I seriously chuckle when people talk about lights that are "built like a tank".....How many people have ever actually had a light structurally fail ?!?!?! What are people doing with their lights that regular anodizing won't do...it has to be "extra" hard anodizing......I mean come on people....I appreciate a good light as much as the next guy....but very few people "need" lights that are built to the standards that just about any light that's over 20 bucks is going to give you......and the Fenix vs Surefire thing has long since gotten old. They are both good lights with different features, figure out what features you want and get that one....geesh.

I never said I 'need' this level of build, some people just appreciate quality more than others. I don't doubt that either light will serve me well.
Don't get so stirred up when someone asks a question, if it annoys you so much perhaps don't answer.

Both are amazing in build quality- though I would give SureFire a slight edge in the "still works after being shot by a tank" category. Either light should serve an excellent lighting tool.

The thing about emergencies is that we never know what level of durability we may actually need until the situation itself arises. For this reason I prefer to carry products, (knives, flashlights, watches, etc...) of maximum quality. An example might be someone working in a high-rise building in a city during a terrorist attack. Do we know that our light won't be subjected to a fall down the stairs as we attempt to get to safety? Will it become wet from broken pipes and still function to get us to safety even with no other lighting available? It is a good rule of thumb to prepare for the worst possible situation, while hoping for the best!! This improves chances of survival.

Either company makes a product that will serve its user well either day to day, or in an emergency.

Pahrens said:

I don't really want to start a brand war, but I really I think it would be common sense for Surefire's to be built better than Fenix, otherwise you would not pay more. Fenix are extremely good value for the money though.
What are the Novatac's like in comparison to Surefire, I am looking at getting myself a really fine torch and these are the brands I feel fit that requirement. Does anyone have a beam shot of the Surefire E2DL vs the Novatac 120. I tend to like the longer skinnier lights and that is the main reason for liking the Surefire, I also love simplicity.

Click to expand...

I use both a SF L1 cree and my NovaTac 120p daily. If I only had one of these lights, it would be the l1 cree- not because one product is "better" than the other, but because in this case, the SureFire has proven to be a more simple light to use, and is somewhat less "quirky" due to this difference in simplicity of use. Also, the throw and flood combination of the new optic in the L1 has the near perfect balance of throw and flood, making it the better light for use in a wide variety of situations. This said, the "wall of light" that comes from the NovaTac 120p makes is by far my favorite light for indoor use. Also, color balance in my opinion is much better with the novatac- it is as close to a perfect white tint as I have ever seen on an led light. Especially if you prefer the longer, skinnier style light, the SF L1 will be a great choice. (If you were to get the novatac, perhaps get the 120p for flexibility, while purchasing the O-Ring tactical grip ring from lighthound for $1.00. This improves grip greatly on this light, which is a bit short for my taste.) Another great option is to wear it on a neck lanyard and keep the new version, shorter pocket clip on it to help with grip. Remember that you will be horrible picked on if you leave the house with a tactical light on a neck lanyard, unless you happen to also be wearing a police / fire/ EMT / military / special forces uniform!!

I think both SF and Fenix will be durable enough to handle what you throw at them on a day-to-day basis. With Fenix lights, you have more bang for the buck because they're manufacturered overseas. I like both brands, though I've sold many of my Fenixes.

Novatac 120P is another great light. It's shorter, but relatively thick. The programmability makes this one of the more versatile light I own.

GPB said:

Unless you are parachuting into crocodile infested rivers, sneaking up on enemy combatants, crawling miles through the mud, and then diving to the core of a nuclear reactor....they are both so overbuilt as to be ridiculous. I seriously chuckle when people talk about lights that are "built like a tank".....How many people have ever actually had a light structurally fail ?!?!?! What are people doing with their lights that regular anodizing won't do...it has to be "extra" hard anodizing......I mean come on people....I appreciate a good light as much as the next guy....but very few people "need" lights that are built to the standards that just about any light that's over 20 bucks is going to give you......and the Fenix vs Surefire thing has long since gotten old. They are both good lights with different features, figure out what features you want and get that one....geesh.

Click to expand...

Amen!

I would add that pretty much this entire high quality flashlight hobby is pretty much overkill for most people. It's just something to get into that's kind of cool in a geeky way. Everybody has their nitch I guess.

I would recommend the TK10 because it is vastly cheaper in price and extremely well built. I'm still impressed by this little gem of a light even after months of owning it. Best $56 I ever wasted on a flashlight! LOL

If given the choice between the two, I would go with Surefire for one simple reason; they are made here in the US, which also would explain the higher cost. American labor is more expensive than Chinese labor.

I do not boycott foreign made goods. If I did that, I'd be without a computer, most clothing, shoes, audio gear, etc. I drive a Honda (though my particular car's final assembly was in Ohio). But in the case of lights, the ones made here are of exceptional quality and it's doubtful that any of them would let you down in normal use.

Triple A said:

The thing about emergencies is that we never know what level of durability we may actually need until the situation itself arises. For this reason I prefer to carry products, (knives, flashlights, watches, etc...) of maximum quality. An example might be someone working in a high-rise building in a city during a terrorist attack. Do we know that our light won't be subjected to a fall down the stairs as we attempt to get to safety? Will it become wet from broken pipes and still function to get us to safety even with no other lighting available? It is a good rule of thumb to prepare for the worst possible situation, while hoping for the best!! This improves chances of survival.

Click to expand...

Well said! :thumbsup:

Both lights are very well made, enough so that you would not notice any slight diference between them IMHO.

I personally prefer the TK10, for three reasons: 1) output - far brighter, more efficient, and better regulation, 2) simplicity - it functions like a single mode forward clicky light, the simplest possible, but can change modes by twisting the head, and 3) of course, price. I see no reason besides the source of the labor that the Surefire should cost as much, let alone more.

Pahrens said:

How would the build quality on a Surefire E2DL compare with a Fenix TK10? The Fenix looks really tough but should I expect the Surefire to be more so? I was thinking the switch definitely would be.
I was going to get the Fenix but have decided I like the Surefire more, it just seems to be better thought out and that less is likely to go wrong. My other choice was a Novatac 120, I still really like it but for some reason settled on the Surefire.

Click to expand...

I do not own the E2Dl or the TK10, but I do own three Surefire's (L5, 6P Led, and the L1 Cree). I own two Fenix lights (P3D and the L2D). I do own the Novatac 120P. Here are my thoughts:

1. I think both companies make great lights, but I would give the edge qualitywise to Surefire. They have a more solid feel and seem more robust. You wil pay more for them because of this and the fact that they are US made.

2. I actually use the Fenix L2D more than any of these lights. Why? It uses AA batteries which are easier to come by, cheaper, and are less likely to turn my light into a pipe bomb!oo: I do realize that this is very unlikely to happen as I only use quality American or Japanese made CR123a's. If Surefire made a AA light I would pick one up in a heartbeat!!

3. I have not owned the Novatac very long but it is a top notch quality light! If you are not into programming flashlights and want a model with a more simple interface, do not get the P version. It is not that difficult after you do it a few times though. My only concern about my Novatac would be the lifespan of the switch. It get pressed a lot more than the average flashlight switch!

This is all just my two cents!!

Mike

In true CPF form, buy both lights.

If you can't afford to do that, buy the SureFire first.

you know we all have those cheap plastic 99 cent lights eveready ,rayovac etc in our drawers that have been through a whole lot worse than our hardcore real lights that we tend to baby maybe a few drops here and there but we take care of them...and those cheapies have held up and still work for the 10+years you have it right despite looking like its been smashed and thrown around for decades.....its just not bright but it has taken a beating for years...put a led pr drop-in and it could go decades more i bet ,it just wont look pretty

LOL. I remember those el cheapo lights. I had them when I was a little kid. Those flashlights weren't even water resistant, let alone waterproof. I had them for quite some time. You could still buy them, though they cost more like $4.00 now.

qip said:

you know we all have those cheap plastic 99 cent lights eveready ,rayovac etc in our drawers that have been through a whole lot worse than our hardcore real lights that we tend to baby maybe a few drops here and there but we take care of them...and those cheapies have held up and still work for the 10+years you have it right despite looking like its been smashed and thrown around for decades.....its just not bright but it has taken a beating for years...put a led pr drop-in and it could go decades more i bet ,it just wont look pretty

Click to expand...

i had a bunch till i found this forum and they all still worked after 20 years but looked like they came back from the gulf war ...but now that i have real lights i threw them all away or gave em away ...so this build quality on a small level of difference is so pointless to me ....i think a simple Maglite would be more robust and durable over surefire and fenix ...the things i look for in a light now are output/runtime/UI and even design looks knurling etc ...most lights here are pretty durable Surefire,Lumapower,O-light,Inova,Fenix,Mag etc the only durability issues which all have to face is the circuitry of each if theres a short or bad switch etc...even surefire have to deal with circuits and switch problems and bad tint led bins

Pahrens said:

I don't really want to start a brand war, but I really I think it would be common sense for Surefire's to be built better than Fenix, otherwise you would not pay more.

Click to expand...

I don't want to start a brand war either (especially since i've never owned a Surefire), but price is not THE indicator of quality. FCOL, they are flashlight brand trying to sell a 125-dollar pen... I mean a "High Quality Writing Instrument" :laughing:

From what i've read, i'm sure Surefire really does make better built flashlights (the question is, how much better w/regards to higher price), but...
Never underestimate the power of hype


----
Ante

Pahrens said:

How would the build quality on a Surefire E2DL compare with a Fenix TK10? The Fenix looks really tough but should I expect the Surefire to be more so? I was thinking the switch definitely would be.
I was going to get the Fenix but have decided I like the Surefire more, it just seems to be better thought out and that less is likely to go wrong. My other choice was a Novatac 120, I still really like it but for some reason settled on the Surefire.

Click to expand...

This won't answer your question directly, but... here comes Greenie with his classic question: What are you going to use this new light for?

I ask because the e2dl and the TK10 are very different in terms of size and application. The difference is even more pronounced when you throw the Novatac into the mix.

Maybe thinking about the use you're going to give your light will help you sort out which one would serve your needs better.

GreenLED conducted some pretty demanding torture tests on a T1.
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=186459

There's some pending Surefire tests being planned in accordance with the same procedure.
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/199436&page=2

Surefire has a longer history with some of their lights and has performed well. At least this specific T1 was pretty exceptional too. Both are pretty tough. Don't be fooled by the body strength though. That probably has very little to do with whether it survives 30 tosses down the stairs, or the 6 story drop.

Triple A said:

Both are amazing in build quality- though I would give SureFire a slight edge in the "still works after being shot by a tank" category.

Click to expand...

Brief trip to off topic - Still working after being shot by a tank would be tank like. I'd say I have about the same odds of winning the lottery this week, without buying a ticket. I looked up open source estimates of the M829A armor piercing, fin stabilized, discarding sabot round fired from the Abrams 120mm main gun,and did a little math I will skip here for brevity. The round has over 3100 times the muzzle energy of the standard 30-06 rifle round. It's estimated to penetrate around 2.5 feet of homogeneous armor grade steel at 2000 meters. Still think either light has an advantage?

Back on topic.