Cedar Rapids Iowa flood: lighting advice?

Well here we are in the middle of Cedar Rapids record breaking floods. We found ourselves without power of course and are now researching high light output cost effective emergency lighting.

I sure would appreciate some input as to the best cost per hour light source. Right now we have several small LED lanterns which are fine for getting around or using the bathroom, but we'd like some room lighting lanterns.

My big question is should we be looking at some good camping lanterns propane or fuel oil or what?

My other questions is anything brighter or more efficient than an Aladdin kerosene lamp? We have one and it outputs tons of white bright light.

Thanks all.

I'd advise against any kerosene or oil lamps due to fire hazard and heat output (which you probably don't want in the summer), CO2 and possible CO emission, and so forth. Your best bet for something reasonable in cost is one of those fluorescent camping lanterns that runs on 8 D cells. These days LED's are even more efficient, but something with that much output will cost a lot more.

I personally have not felt the need for even something like that. A small handheld LED light bounced off the ceiling will light a room enough to see where people and furniture are, i.e. enough to walk around or converse easily but not enough to read by. Power outages are an unusual enough occurrence that not having full strength indoor illumination is a fairly minor inconvenience during them. Keep a small headlamp around for stuff needing higher light levels (reading, cooking, repairs, etc).

paulr said:

...our best bet for something reasonable in cost is one of those fluorescent camping lanterns that runs on 8 D cells. These days LED's are even more efficient, but something with that much output will cost a lot more.

I personally have not felt the need for even something like that. A small handheld LED light bounced off the ceiling will light a room enough to see where people and furniture are, i.e. enough to walk around or converse easily but not enough to read by. Power outages are an unusual enough occurrence that not having full strength indoor illumination is a fairly minor inconvenience during them. Keep a small headlamp around for stuff needing higher light levels (reading, cooking, repairs, etc).

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I don;t think any LED lantern is going to be cost effective at all. 8 D won't give that many hours of operation for the cost.

As for power outages being unusual, we've lost power 5-6 times this year already, ranging from 4-24 hours. Small lights aren't practical for a several person household.

I have a lot of flashlights including LED and fluorescent lanterns, but none of them is going to offer a comparable amount of light for the same duration as a fuel lantern. I just bought two Coleman camping lanterns (one liquid dual fuel and one propane) for long power failures after an 11 hour one last week. I decided that they could be handy.

My take is that if you're not an idiot and use common sense they're perfectly safe to use in a house. Leave a few windows cracked and you'll be fine. People use gas stoves and gas fireplaces in houses without any issues. I don't really see how a propane lantern is much different. :thinking:

Propane is the cleanest burning (so probably the best choice for indoor use), but it costs several times more to run with their 16.4 oz "tanks" than liquid lanterns that burn white gas (naphtha) / Coleman fuel. The dual fuel lanterns that can burn unleaded will be the absolute cheapest option if you run unleaded gas, but from what I've read the additives in unleaded gas can gum up some of the parts in the lantern if you run enough tanks of unleaded through it. You could run a propane lantern from a large propane tank (like a BBQ grill uses) and get the cost of running it way down, but then you have a rather large somewhat awkward contraption.

Keep in mind even the "expensive" propane lantern option is still not too bad in terms of runtime cost. You can get the 16.4oz tanks for about $2.50 and when used with the right Coleman lantern they put out the light of a 100+W incandescent for ~5hours on high. In contrast you can get 1 gallon (128oz) of Coleman fuel for ~$8. A dual fuel Coleman lantern that holds 32oz runs for about 7 hours on high. So, it is cheaper. You can do the math for unleaded gas.

Ultimately, when compared to a fluorescent lantern that sucks downs $6-8 in D cells, puts out less light, and doesn't run any longer they're all pretty good.

Thanks. I'm leaning toward propane for these very reasons.

Abouna said:

Thanks. I'm leaning toward propane for these very reasons.

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As a tip if you are going to buy a Coleman you will probably want to check out this thread for some Coleman "family" deals.

yeah propane is the way to go. Also i have somethig to ask, i own a coleman propane northstar {love it} however ever science i bought it, when i screw in a propane tank and set the lantern down on a flat surface, the actual top part {the lantern itself} noticably leans to one side. i am not talking about something minor, i am talking quite a bit. {i can notice it 30 feet away no problem} so is this normal, or should i send it in? it works just fine but it bugs the crap out of me not knowing if it is normal or not.

Abouna said:

Thanks. I'm leaning toward propane for these very reasons.

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Actually, for the bulk tanks, you can get a smaller 5 or 11lb tank and a smaller propane bulk-adapter tree. On high, you'd get about 30-60 hrs, or a very useable low for twice that. Cost to refill should be less than $10 for the 11 lb'er. Higher initial cost, but you won't be throwing away a disposeable cylinder every night, and you'd also have a nice smaller backup for a gas grill or something. I remember one winter during a power failure using a one-burner stove screwed on top of the tree to heat our house for 2 full days (a 6lb tank, now discontinued) with the burner on low before the tank ran out. Kept the house above 45 degrees the whole time, where most neighbors had pipe bursts.

We talked about it a bit more in depth here:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/184270&page=3

For a bright long running light kerosene or or propane cant be beaten, 20 pounds of propane contains a lot more energy than 20 pounds of batteries.

If due to the fire risk, fumes, or heat output you wish to avoid fuel burning lighting indoors, then what about 12 volt compact flouresecent lamps worked of a 12 volt lead acid battery?

A proper deep cycle leisure battery would be best, though in an emergency a vehicle starter battery would do.
12 volt CFL are used in off grid homes and are available from renewable energy suppliers.

broadgage said:

If due to the fire risk, fumes, or heat output you wish to avoid fuel burning lighting indoors, then what about 12 volt compact flouresecent lamps worked of a 12 volt lead acid battery?

A proper deep cycle leisure battery would be best, though in an emergency a vehicle starter battery would do.
12 volt CFL are used in off grid homes and are available from renewable energy suppliers.

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I don't want to carry around a 50lb car battery. Do you?

Might wanna' consider a nice headlamp.


Once i got mine, couldn't believe how handy & useful it is. :thumbsup:



Best of Luck (and health) to you and your loved ones during this difficult time.

_

Abouna said:

I don;t think any LED lantern is going to be cost effective at all. 8 D won't give that many hours of operation for the cost.

As for power outages being unusual, we've lost power 5-6 times this year already, ranging from 4-24 hours. Small lights aren't practical for a several person household.

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I'd get some rechargeable D cells in this case. I think 8 of them will run a lantern for 16 hours or so, which should be enough for a 24+ hour blackout. No reason to keep a room lit 24h/day during a blackout if you turn the lights off at night in non-blackouts. Maybe you also want to invest in a portable generator.

Stereodude said:

I don't want to carry around a 50lb car battery. Do you?

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No not really, I presumed that your enquiry related to lighting a home during a blackout, and not to portable lighting.

paulr said:

Maybe you also want to invest in a portable generator.

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A good inverter based generator is going to be $2-3k. You can buy a lot of propane or Coleman fuel for a lantern with that kind of coin.

Of course you can't power your TV, fridge, furnace from a Coleman lantern either.

broadgage said:

No not really, I presumed that your enquiry related to lighting a home during a blackout, and not to portable lighting.

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I wasn't the one who made the original inquiry, but I would think that having mobile emergency lighting might be a good idea if you have vacate your house (in a flood) or to move the light around from different areas of your house unless a backup lighting system had fixtures / outlets in every room.

Stereodude said:

I wasn't the one who made the original inquiry, but I would think that having mobile emergency lighting might be a good idea if you have vacate your house (in a flood) or to move the light around from different areas of your house unless a backup lighting system had fixtures / outlets in every room.

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This is another reason to favor propane; you can more easily and safely toss a couple of small tanks in a bag and go (the Coleman Pinnacle also is it's own carry case) than you can with liquid fuels. No battery powered lantern that I've seen can equal a modern propane model for output.

If power outtages are frequent but not epic in length (for those, go with the propane), consider a SLA rechargeable fluorescent, like Coleman's Retro. I have one and used it last week for a 5 hr outtage. It brightly lit a large room for the entire duration, and doesn't consume D cells at every use. It gets 6/9 hrs on high/low (with low still being very bright), and can even be "upgraded" from an 11W to 15W spiral (available at Wally's). Brighter still, but runtime will suffer accordingly. The lantern is large compared to led lanterns (the non-D models), but is great as an emergency light fixture. As a bonus for this type of usage, you can keep it plugged into the AC as a trickle charge, and the lantern will turn itself on automatically when the power fails. If you have a need for that, it's a great feature truly intended for power failures. Because it's rechargeable, you can also use the Retro for camping, outside or whatever frequently for fun purposes, too, without wondering how much runtime remains in D cells. After my kids went to bed, the Retro did nightlight duty for hours longer. The nightlight is actually a pretty bright incan bulb behind an amber lens, not a single 5mm led. The nightlight can remain on when charging from AC as well.

You might look a little more closely at the LED torch option - a good example; a Fenix L2D, which uses two standard AA batteries, lasts for *over three days* on its low setting (roughly the same light output as a Minimag), plus you still have the much higher output settings to use as needed. That means the $5 8-pack of batteries carried at every store in your area will provide you with *over a month* of light even when used 8 hours a day..

Yeah, but it's not exactly on par with a liquid or gas powered lantern. See this thread for how a L2D compares to other flashlights in a room lighting scenario.

I added my shots from my Coleman Pinnacle PerfectFlow InstaStart Propane Lantern on very low, medium, and high in my shootout thread if you're interested to see how it compares to the battery powered lights.

Stereodude said:

A good inverter based generator is going to be $2-3k. You can buy a lot of propane or Coleman fuel for a lantern with that kind of coin.

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The popular one around here seems to be the Honda 2000i or something like that. I don't remember the price but it's under $1k. There is an even cheaper and smaller 1000 watt version but people say that's underpowered for some common purposes.