What's your opinion on this? Water4Gas.com does it work anyone ever tried that?

I bumped into this site water4gas.com read through it and it somehow made sense. I tried to find negative stuff but there is not much out there, however lots of positive articles..which to my opinion sound a bit engineered.

What do you guys think does water4gas.com work? Anyone ever tried that, there seems to be tons of opinions on the web but no one verifiable (with a phone number to call), someone who tried it and one can verify their claims.

I think the question is this.
1-Alternator energy is used to convert Water into H2 and O2
2-this H2 is then injected into the motor (question here is is that a more effective mixture then the regular air/gas mix..)
3-Claims are that a jar of water improves gas mileage on about 900 miles...

Now the alternator as I understand would have to work harder to provide the electricity to change the water into the gas mix. The question is whether the energy or better gas needed to do this conversion is higher then the gas saved through the higher efficiency of the motor (if it is more efficient).

Ideal would be if someone would test it, build it, and without fuzz reports whether it works or not. A source that could be verified....

And for the heck of it lets make it a poll too....

It takes exactly the same amount of energy to separate the hydrogen atoms from the oxygen atoms in the water molecules as you would get back by recombining them, if the system was perfectly efficient, which it isn't, so it's a net waste of energy.

It wouldn't work even if the engine itself was 100% efficient, and internal combustion engines are around 20% efficient.

The thing with alternator is it doesn't take a fixed amount of engine power and produce whatever you want. The more current you drain from it the harder it is to turn, thus take more power from engine. There is no such thing as "extra" or "wasted" power from alternator like these type of scams claim.

Mythbusters tried one of these and it produced a few bubble of H2.
It takes a lot of energy to separate the gases and about the only place I know if whre this is used is in atomic subs where they have a lot of excess power.
They are only interested in the O2 for breathing.
The last energy crisis had a lot more "solutions" that didn't work, but most cars used standard carburetors then
TANSTAAFL

This, along with other views of hydrogen recovery have been discussed several times here.

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2021089#post2021089
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2022305#post2022305
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2147237#post2147237
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2473964#post2473964

The same discussions about these "breakthroughs" have been ongoing for decades. The science and math involved back then are the same today. At some time or another, you'd think the scams would become more difficult to pass off onto anyone.

May the ones that don't know better, and keep reaching for something better, continue their pursuit of the unreachable. They are the ones that may find something a bit better. Unfortunately, they are not among the ones publishing web pages claiming breakthroughs. They don't offer anything better, just scams and hoaxes.

Here's about the only thing I've heard recently that is legit.

http://www.physorg.com/news98556080.html

Of course this wonderful new technology works. These old men (above) simply don't understand crystal power. They are probably part of the perto-chemical industry. I'll prove it....just send me a truckload of Gatlights and I'll soak them in energy enhanced water and change them into GOLD. No phone number disclosed.

Lit Up said:

Here's about the only thing I've heard recently that is legit.

http://www.physorg.com/news98556080.html

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Interesting article... however where does the energy come from to separate the H2 and O2 out... seems like it is using up the Aluminum.... wonder what the catch with this technology is.... it just sounds too good to be true... take some Aluminum, add water and get hydrogen...

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Then regarding water4gas.com what I find odd is that there are not really that many negative reports out there. Scams and this type of stuff often has reviews etc. However the reasons cited make sense.

It kind of boils down to whether an alternator is more efficient or a gas-engine boosted with hydrogen. Since gas engines are I believe 99% efficient and likely having been optimized over decades its hard to believe that much of an efficiency/power increase can be achieved.

Anyway Empath thanks also for the other links was fun reading through those....


Talking about soaking GatLights in energy water - A hydrogen powered flashlight would be something different... one would just have to figure out how to slow down the burning process of H2... to create something like a flame... any ideas?

mobile1 said:

Interesting article... however where does the energy come from to separate the H2 and O2 out... seems like it is using up the Aluminum.... wonder what the catch with this technology is.... it just sounds too good to be true... take some Aluminum, add water and get hydrogen...

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It's explained in the article. The aluminium binds the oxygen, producing aluminium oxide, and the reaction doesn't just stop when an Al2O3 layer forms on the surface of the pellets thanks to gallium (don't know how that works, though).

mobile1 said:

Since gas engines are I believe 99% efficient and likely having been optimized over decades its hard to believe that much of an efficiency/power increase can be achieved.

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Oh boy, not even close...

"Even when aided with turbochargers and stock efficiency aids most engines retain an average efficiency of about 20%"

From Wiki

Steam engines (piston) - 10%
Gas engines - 20-30%
Modern diesel engines - 40%

And gas turbines can reach 50-60% (such as for generating electricity).

-Bill

I have read the 99% by someone arguing that this can't work...


Anyway things get interesting... I tracked someone down (Rochester - NY area - 585 area code) who claims to have installed the system and having received a major gas mileage boost...

Anyone of you guys in the 585 area code and willing to travel there and interested in stopping by this guy and see if he's real and if this thing really works, take some pics for us, test it and once and for all check out the facts on a real installation?

Of course I'd have to ask him first.... also we'd have to come up with a way of testing... f.e. unhooking the thing for 10 miles.. then hooking it back up...etc.

So anyone in the 585 area code?

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Then a comment regarding the aluminum version... here is the skinny on economical viability -by the inventor - and left out by the media.
When and if fuel cells become economically viable, our method would compete with gasoline at $3 per gallon even if aluminum costs more than a dollar per pound," Woodall said. source
So this version basically offers you a 25% discount - IF fuel cells become economically viable (which they are not yet)... and one needs energy to create the pellets... so to sum it up too little of a gain and too many if's...

My friends and I built about 8 of these and they DO work! I'll see if I can post a picture in a little bit.

solowgregg said:

My friends and I built about 8 of these and they DO work! I'll see if I can post a picture in a little bit.

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hmm now things are getting interesting.... so what I would like to see is that some of those people in this thread... that claim it does not work for whatever reason stop by test it and report back.

So tell us about the setup, photos, gas mileage before and after etc. etc.... also where are you located and would you be open to some cpf'ers stopping by and checking it out for real?


First I was a bit sceptical since you are a rather new member.. however it seems that you signed up here before I made my post about this topic so you seem ok. (I just notice on many forums where this discussion is started that new members show up and claim it works)....

I can tell you with certainty, that Hydrogen as an internal combustion engine fuel contains about 70% to 75% of the BTU content of gasoline and less as compared to Diesel. Said another way, Hydrogen provides about 70 to 75% of the "power" as compared to gasoline in an internal combustion engine. By comparison, Compressed Natural Gas (CNG) contains about 80% of the BTU ("power") as compared to Gasoline. E-85 contains about 80 to 85% of the BTU of Gasoline.

Introducing Hydrogen into your engine is going to reduce your power output.

We run CNG, E-85 and Hydrogen alternate fuel vehicles in our fleet. We are part of a test program which converted 5 Toyota Prius's to run as Hydrogen-Hybrid. As compared to when they ran on Gasoline, they were very underpowered when they came back from the conversion. The conversion company had to go back and install turbo chargers on them to bring power levels back to near-stock levels.

Our refuse truck fleet is 100% CNG. All of the available OEM CNG engines for these trucks are a full 25% larger in displacement to add back the power and torque lost by using CNG.

Why would you want to displace high BTU content gasoline molecules in your combustion chamber with lower BTU content Hydrogen molecules?

mobile1 said:

hmm now things are getting interesting.... so what I would like to see is that some of those people in this thread... that claim it does not work for whatever reason stop by test it and report back.

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Right after you strap a pair of wings on and fly off a building. People used to do that a lot becasue they did not understand the science involved.
Poeple that buy such devices today only get hurt in the pocketbook.

For something to produce more energy than is put into it violates everything that is known about science.

Propellers being turned in the wind generated by the forward motion of a car driven by a generator which gets energy from the propeller is right up there with this concept.

IF the idea worked then people would be making billions off it.
Unless you believe in a grand conspiracy with no greedy people in it.

BVH said:

Why would you want to displace high BTU content gasoline molecules in your combustion chamber with lower BTU content Hydrogen molecules?

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The above is all true but note that you still need O2 for the combustion so you would indeed have to replace gasoline molecules for combustion.

Hmmm. That leads to the metering process. How does this magic machine introduce the proper mix of O2 along with H2 and gasoline?

Escher had the right idea. Just make everything downhill.

You know quite frankly personal opinions here and there.. we can talk all day long. At the end those who claim it works need to put up or shut up.

We have 2 people so far who say it works and are willing to have people stop by.

And besides here is a study, that says adding hydrogen cleans up and can increase the gas mileage. Anyway and here is a ton more of similar studies.

So to sum it up, rather then making a decision I'd like to see someone visit these people... fill up the car, unhook the device, drive 30 miles then fill up the car, then activate the device drive the same 30 miles and see if their claims are true...

The odd thing is I just can't find reports on the web of people who said they purchased the thing did it and it did not work. You get plenty of opinions by people who havent tried it....

My experience with the web is that if something is a scam... it is ALL OVER THE WEB... disgruntled people voice their concerns strongly.

So those who claim to have it and use it successfully.. step forward and proof it.. and who here on cpf would be willing to stop by and take photos give it a test... anyone in the NY / Rochester area?

mobile1 said:

hmm now things are getting interesting.... so what I would like to see is that some of those people in this thread... that claim it does not work for whatever reason stop by test it and report back.

So tell us about the setup, photos, gas mileage before and after etc. etc.... also where are you located and would you be open to some cpf'ers stopping by and checking it out for real?


First I was a bit sceptical since you are a rather new member.. however it seems that you signed up here before I made my post about this topic so you seem ok. (I just notice on many forums where this discussion is started that new members show up and claim it works)....

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I wouldn't mind people checking it out at all. I actually have my rig out of the car at this very moment adding a couple more cylinders to it. Give me a bit to get some pics. and I'll post them. I recently sold my camera (GO NIKON! WHOO!!) so I have to borrow a buddy's. As far as mileage increase it will obviously give you better results with the more cylinders (HHO not pistons) you have. But the real secret to the kit is the fact that you actually splice into your MAF sensor wire and install a system of two potentiometers one for highway and one for city. By turning down the potents. you decrease the amount of gas being injected into your engine. The HHO makes up for said fuel/power decrease by burning the fuel you are using more efficiently.