Need outfitted for caving

I am interested in joining a local caving group (Huntsville Grotto for those of you in the area). My caving experience is pretty much limited to tourist caves, and not really any wild caves. From what I understand, they will loan me a hardhat and headlamp for the first couple trips, until I decide if I'm all in, or it isn't for me. At least for now, these are horizontal caves, not vertical.

I am looking for some recommendations for specific lights well suited for this activity. I would like to standardize on AA NiMH cells except where noted below. I am mainly looking for three lights.

First, a headlamp of course. It needs to attach well to a helmet. Preferably something with the battery pack on the rear for weight balance. Also, preferably something which could easily switch from high to low with a gloved hand. Choice of med/low flood and high throw is big plus. No need for secondary colors here (red, blue, etc). I am thinking of the Energizer Cree headlamp (if I can find it) since it has the flip down diffuser. It has the superfluous colors, but oh well... You can't win them all. If I get it and like it, I may attempt to replace the green and red with white Nichia GS's. Maybe wait for the Fenix headlamp? Price <$50

Secondly, I want a hand held light to be holstered on a belt for easy access. Again, preferably AA, but there seems to be a lack of quality, 2xAA throwers. In the lack of any better suggestions, I am considering the TK11 for this role. Last time I was in a cave, my NDI was wonderful at illuminating things close up, much better than the tour guide's MagCharger. However, the high humidity in the cave just ate up the beam within 40 feet. So, I want a light with some decent throw. Preferably <$50, definitely <$100.

For a third light, I will probably keep my NDI in the pack, so I'm pretty set there. Other suggestions still welcome however.

For a true emergency backup, I will be wearing an E0, and have an E01 clipped inside the pack, both on L92's. I'm pretty well set here also.

Do I need a small lantern? Something like the AA folding Energizer one? Also, what about a UV light to fluoresce minerals?

What am I forgetting/overlooking? Suggestions, opinions, inside, etc are all appreciated. This also included help beyond lighting.

For the headlamp I would say maybe a zebralight or the petzl myo xp looks nice
http://www.brightguy.com/products/Petzl_MYO_XP_E83P2.php

For the 2xaa I don't know if you're going to find anything much more powerful than the tk11 that runs on aa's, you might have to go to a different battery size.

I would recommend checking out coleman's website for a lantern, they have quite nice led lanterns that all collapse for compactness. I have one of their bigger ones but they have some small ones too.
I would also consider maybe upgrading your eo or e1 to a lod, you know you want to.

portezbie said:

For the headlamp I would say maybe a zebralight or the petzl myo xp looks nice
http://www.brightguy.com/products/Petzl_MYO_XP_E83P2.php

For the 2xaa I don't know if you're going to find anything much more powerful than the tk11 that runs on aa's, you might have to go to a different battery size.

I would recommend checking out coleman's website for a lantern, they have quite nice led lanterns that all collapse for compactness. I have one of their bigger ones but they have some small ones too.
I would also consider maybe upgrading your eo or e1 to a lod, you know you want to.

Click to expand...

I want a ZebraLight, but I want the main headlamp to be something with a little more output, and a little more throw when I want it.

I have all three, the E0, E01, and LOD Q4. I choose the E0/E01 because the runtime on L92 is around 12-15 hours constant brightness, with over another 24 of moon mode. The LOD on low can't touch that.

In a 2xAA form factor using NiMH, you can get 200 lumens from a Jet-I Pro EX, or 180 from an L2D Q5. The upcoming 2AA Fenix light may suit the bill, but it also has a lower overall output despite being focusable. What kind of run time are you looking for?

If you have to go away from AA, do you prefer dual CR123A or 18650 power sources? My Raidfire Spear has great throw, but may be too bulky for squeezing around in caves. Something like the Jet-II I.B.S. may be a good alternative if do you can't find a good compact thrower in AA format.

If you want to compare spot lux @ 1m to predict throw, the NDI is around 1400-2000 on NiMH (from reviews, not my numbers, reported numbers are widely variable), the L2D Q5 is 3k, Jet-I Pro EX is 4k, the Jet-II I.B.S. 8-9k, and the Spear 21-25k.

Regards,
Eric

RC-G2 with new driver (DX sku 6880 or 7880) and a Q5 for throw, though it's only 1xAA.

For a 2xAA light you will need an Olight T25. It's well made and has good throw.

maybe that petzl myo xp would be good then, they make nice headlamps. I doubt it would be very sturdy, but they have a very powerful headlamp on kd. 2500 lux advertised with a cree p4. Only 3 hours or so of battery life though.
http://www.kaidomain.com/WEBUI/ProductDetail.aspx?TranID=2876

portezbie said:

maybe that petzl myo xp would be good then, they make nice headlamps. I doubt it would be very sturdy, but they have a very powerful headlamp on kd. 2500 lux advertised with a cree p4. Only 3 hours or so of battery life though.
http://www.kaidomain.com/WEBUI/ProductDetail.aspx?TranID=2876

Click to expand...

I like the looks of the Myo XP. I've played with that KD one, it's a POS, falls apart pretty quick.

Good Luck in your caving exploits, Marduke. :thumbsup:


Please write about your experiences, and let us know

what worked well, and what didn't.



Caving certainly is an ideal hobby for Flashaholics, eh ?

:wave:
_

The one caver I know says everybody he knows likes the PT Apex. One thing he mentioned to me is that throw is not a big deal in a cave. Most of the time you want a really good close up light. Once in a while, in a big room, or a long drop, you'll want a thrower to light up the whole area.

I would ask the group you're going with. They will have the best idea of what works in a cave and what your needs really are.

FWIW, I read in another thread about caving a while back where someone recommended Rebel emitters in caves because they tend to render colors more realistically than Crees on things like formations, mineral deposits, and cave critters. The caving group probably has tried and true recommendations of their own that are worth considering too.

For a 2 AA flashlight, how about a Streamlight (2AA) LED ProPolymer? $17.95 @ BrightGuy, 25 lumens for 18hrs. (more with L92's, I want to say 28hrs. but not positive). My .02 FWIW

The Streamlight ProPolymer 2AA LED flashlight has a tightly focused beam and convenient tailcap switch for momentary on and constant on/off. With a bright 30,000 hour LED, Streamlight 2AA LED ProPolymer is more cost-effective than a conventional flashlight because you won't need expensive replacement bulbs.

Features of Streamlight ProPolymer 2AA LED flashlight:
- 0.5 watt bright 30,000 hour high flux LED; no need for replacement bulbs
- corrosion and impact resistant
- waterproof and O-ring sealed (not dive rated)
- powered by 2 ea AA alkaline batteries, included
- up to 18 hours of run time
- unbreakable polycarbonate lens with scratch resistant coating
- integrated pocket clip
- limited lifetime warranty from Streamlight
- assembled in USA

Safety Ratings for Streamlight 2AA ProPolymer LED:
UL Listed
Class I, Div 2, Groups A, B, C, D
Class II, Div 2, Groups F&G
Class III, T4C

How well would the ZebraLight H50 work? Using it on high, it would need 2-3 sets of batteries per trip. I'm just not sure how well pure flood would work.

The Princetontec Apex is a good choice and if you're up for a bit of modding, it can be even better. If you change the L.E.D. to a P4 you will get better run times and more power. You can also activate the switches, even with thick gloves, and although the unit claims to be waterproof to 1 metre, i wouldn't leave it submerged in water for more than 10 minutes. Should you leave this light under water for too long, then water may enter and stop the light from working. Should this happen, take out the batteries and let it dry out for 4 days or until it works again.

It works really well with rechargeable AA's 2900Mah. It also has 2 x 5mm Nichia super brights on either side, which is ideal for closer up applications with it's wide beam. The main beam profile is a medium spot, and if you have the modded version, this throws fairly well too. I prefer the Apex Pro for running as it has a lighter battery pack at the back.

I never venture into caves...unless they are filled with nice clear water and I have a couple of gas tanks on my back.

I have a friend who is a rather serious caver. He uses a stenlight: http://www.stenlight.com/
It is an amazing combination of durability, light weight, and logarithmic level control. A bit 'spensive, but if you decide to take up this passtime you will need more than the typical intermittent duty hobby lights marketed for campers and night hikers.

gerG

I found that a lot of cavers wear two headlamps. A main one and a smaller one. The smaller one i use is the Princetontec Eos, which has been modded with a Q5 L.E.D. and smooth reflector. This is an ideal secondary headlamp and it's small, lightweight and works well with AAA NiMH rechargeables, although i prefer Energizer AAA lithium batteries.

Marduke,

Huntsville grotto member here. I started caving on their monthly horizontal trips too!

Right now, I have a modified PT Apex on my helmet and have modified several other Apex lights for my caving buddies. They are not perfect when it comes to extremely durable construction, but are pretty darn good for an off-the-shelf light. Even the one I flooded with saltwater is still running fine.

I also am really enjoying my Zebralight H50 for smaller passages and lighting up small rooms with the flood.

I have also modified a pair of helmet mounts for a mini-mag-lite so that a Fenix L2D or L1D will fit. These are what I use as my long range spotlights.

That Energizer Cree looks quite interesting. I bet I won't be able to pass it by if I see it on the shelf!

Honestly, the "ideal" caving light for me does not exist. I want a range of 5-200 lumens from a 4xAA battery pack and want everything to be pretty much bomb-proof. Oh, and did I mention that it needs to be affordable too?

I'm holding out for the Fenix headlamp which I have very high expectations for. I pray that they offer it in an AA powered version. The upcoming Surefire Saint might be neat too, but will probably not use AA's and I am pretty strict about my primary headlamp using a universal battery size.

Whatever you do, show up to the first caving trip with your own headlamp. Their loaner lights are a bit dismal. Also, go buy a pair of the $3 gardening gloves that are dipped in blue latex. They are easily the best and cheapest caving gloves around and you'll look quite prepared showing up with them at the NSS office since almost everyone there will be wearing the same gloves.

Of all my caving buddies, I am probably the nerdiest when it comes to knowing my flashlights and headlamps. If you would want to chat sometime on the phone or by email, just send me a PM. If I can make the next horizontal trip, I'll come up to Huntsville and meet you. If there is a chance you are going to be in Birmingham soon, I'd be happy to loan you a lamp or two. . .

edit: I just saw your questions about the Zebralight H50. As an experiment, I used it as my primary light for a day of caving to see if all the claims that it was not suitable for hiking over difficult terrain were true. It was truly fantastic for any of the small to medium sized rooms and passages. This is probably due to the fact that caving is done in complete darkness and our night vision is improved over people using them above ground with moonlight and other surface lights around. After several hours underground, you don't really need a lot of lumens since your night vision is at its best. I wouldn't have the Zebra as my only headlamp, but I'll probably be using it a LOT more than most people here might think. It will be a permanent fixture on my helmet until something better comes along.

Thanks Yucca Patrol. I sent you a PM asking a few specifics.

As for the holstered light, I think at least for now I'm going to go with what I already have. A beat up Rayovac 2xAA 3watt SportsMan Extreme. It's cheap, grippy, simple, AA powered, and bombproof.

Edit:
Hey, I just saw this thing too
http://www.brightguy.com/products/Energizer_e2_Lithium_LED_Headlight.php

Comments?

I also second the PT Apex, esp a seoul modded one as I've had one for a few years w/o problems. You could get one with a belt mounted battery pack o get the weight off your head. If you could afford it then maybe the stenlight which has been getting alot of good reviews from cavers. You cant beat the warmth of carbide tho for closeups so a combination of carbide and sten/apex is a killer setup.

For backup, I'd get a romisen g2 and use it with primaries. Use a soldering iron to melt some holes in your helmet and zip tie it there.

As for handhelds, you'll need something to light up some caverns so I'll take a ROP or HID even M6.

If you want to standardize batteries to AA then Apex, RC-G2 and ROP 2D.

Ubi,

Thanks for the great tip for making a couple holes in my caving helmet!