Wanted: Advice about shipping internationally

(Sorry in advance if this is in the wrong forum. I didn't see anywhere appropriate in the Marketplace to post this.)

Up until now I've only sold items in the Marketplace within the U.S., where I live, mostly because I don't want to deal with the perceived "hassle" of international shipping. But is it really a hassle? I'd like to be enlightened by some of you with more experience in this area. I'm ready to take the next step in terms of opening up my occasional sales to *anyone* who might be interested, but I need more info.

So, I'm imagining this thread to be a place where...

a) ...members within the U.S. who have experience shipping internationally can post their recommendations on which carriers or types of shipping have been most reliable and/or most economical lately.

b) ...members outside the U.S. who have had orders shipped to them from the states can give their feedback.

Please keep in mind that the whole goal of this is to promote understanding. I'm tired of being someone who only sells within his borders. Thanks in advance! Hoping for a little education here.

I ship internationally fairly often. In my experience, USPS has been very reliable. Only once was there a slight delay due to customs, but otherwise, I only have good to speak of them.

For less expensive items, I ship via First Class Intn'l which isn't much of a difference than if you were to ship within the states; however, when you upgrade shipping to Priority, that's where you see a big jump in price. For example: a Surefire 6P shipped from Hawaii to Canada via First Class will run about $6-$7. That same 6P via Priority will run about $16-$17. With this extra cost you do get insurance up to $60 +/- and a tracking number.

So go ahead and ship oversees. Help our fellow CPFers who don't have access to certain lights readily available to us in the states.

Ive only brought a few items so far

but from what Ive experienced so far, Priority and Intnl First Class

takes about the same amount of time to ship to the United Kingdom

Ok, very helpful so far.

generic, do you ever ship Intl. First Class and buy the extra insurance (and delivery confirmation, if offered)?

tx, so do you just request Intl. First Class then? Ever had anything lost? Feel comfortable not having a tracking number?

jbviau,

I think it's great that you are considering shipping outside the US, and encouraging others to consider doing the same . I live in the UK, and would often like to buy from people in the US (since we have very good exchange rates at the moment), but all too often, ads state 'CONUS only' or something similar. This doesn't just apply here, I've seen it on several different forums with trading sections. I can understand why people don't want to ship internationally though - as you say, there's a perception that it's a lot of hassle. I personally don't think that is the case, but I can still respect someone's wishes if they don't want to ship internationally .

I've bought a number of items from the US, both from commercial outfits, and also from individuals. So far, I haven't had any problems, so let's hope that continues. The only thing I need to be aware of is that when the item arrives in the UK, if the value as declared on the customs sheet is over £18 ( or thereabouts), I will probably get hit for import duty, as well as a handling charge. But paying these are my responsibility, not the vendor, and I'm aware that I may have to pay them, so there's no point complaining to the vendor when I get hit with them, as I knew the costs would be charged. I've also shipped a few items outside the UK, mainly to the US. Again, there has not been a problem yet.

What I've found to be useful is if the vendor (wether it's me or someone I'm buying from) knows the weight of the item in it's shipping condition (i.e. with all the packaging) in advance. This means they can check the shipping prices easily, and make them available to potential buyers upfront. Good communication is important .

So, thanks for thinking about shipping outside the US, and let's hope that others will think about doing the same.

Regards,

Dave.

That's where they get you! Delivery confirmation and insurance is not available with First Class. You could go Registered and get a return receipt for $2.20 more I believe, but again, Registered is much more than First Class. I guess you could say you're taking a risk by sending via First Class, but so far I've been fortunate enough not to have anything bad happen *knock on wood*

CPF is a world-wide community and I've always opened my sales of stuff to anyone, regardless of location. I'll usually list a price "CONUS" and if someone asks to buy and ship out of country, I simply ask for the cost difference btw what CONUS was going to be and what the actual shipping is. I'd guess I've shipped maybe a dozen times using US Post Office with no problems/losses.

jbviau, I just wanted to thank you for thinking of those members outside the US, Thanks

I appreciate you considering the "rest of the world"

I have purchased various goods from US which have been shipped to Germany by various carriers and never had any troubles.

And frankly, I don't really care if the shipment takes 3 days or 3 weeks. If you need something urgently, you should buy locally.

Customs, of course, can be a hassle to the recipient. Sometimes, not exactly sure when, the package is held back by them and you need to go to your local customs office (usually in every city of 40.000 or more) and pick it up.
If the value stated on the outside or on the bill exceeds certain amounts, you will then have to pay at least value-add-tax, and depending on the content, additional duties. However, very likely, you will have a hard time explaining the public official what it is, so he can determine the duties. I'm not sure why, but they always give me the impression, they have never seen what I got in my box.... Leave alone the time they let you wait in the first place.
But as stated above, anybody purchasing abroad should be aware of that and should not complain to the sender. If any, they might consider complaining to their local customs office. Or politicians.

As sender, you can smooth the path through customs by stating "gift" and keeping the value stated under certain amounts. I believe, they differ from destination to destination, I could dig those out for Germany, if you want.

I consider insurance nice for goods above maybe 30 USD, but below, I don't think it's required.

Any other questions ?

well i can answer question "B". It usually arrived within 2 - 4 weeks and i Lives in Indonesia.

Just a note about international shipping and customs:

Never split a order in multiple packages without the customers accept (In my country your have to pay $30 for each package in custom processing fees).

BVH said:

...I'll usually list a price "CONUS" and if someone asks to buy and ship out of country, I simply ask for the cost difference btw what CONUS was going to be and what the actual shipping is...

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Just wondering... do you actually state in your ads that you are happy to ship internationally for the appropriate costs? The reason I ask is that I wonder if some people are put off even asking if all they see is 'shipped CONUS' without any mention of making it available internationally. The speed some things sell, by the time someone has PMd asking if something is available internationally, someone else in the US might have already grabbed it!

Dave.

Thanks for the replies so far!

digitaldave said:

What I've found to be useful is if the vendor (wether it's me or someone I'm buying from) knows the weight of the item in it's shipping condition (i.e. with all the packaging) in advance. This means they can check the shipping prices easily, and make them available to potential buyers upfront. Good communication is important .

Click to expand...

Approximate weight is one thing, but actually knowing the exact weight in advance including packing materials, etc., would be tough for me given that I don't have a postal scale at home.

I'd probably prefer to charge an estimated shipping price then refund the difference if that turns out to be too high or ask for a little more if it's too low once the package is sent. Think that's similar to what BVH is suggesting. Does that method work usually?

AlexLED said:

As sender, you can smooth the path through customs by stating "gift" and keeping the value stated under certain amounts. I believe, they differ from destination to destination, I could dig those out for Germany, if you want.

I consider insurance nice for goods above maybe 30 USD, but below, I don't think it's required.

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Does it raise any red flags if you, being a nice seller, keep the declared amount low but then buy insurance for a higher value? Is it even possible to do both?

Ok, well I see this has been moved to the Cafe now without a "Moved..." thread left behind where it started. I hope that doesn't mean no one will find it!

jbviau,

Thanks for considering to sell and ship internationally. There's some useful info in this now closed thread in CPFMP, specifically cy's post #52. Some things have changed since then, Global Priority Mail got renamed to Priority Mail Int'l, and the price have gone up recently (I think about a month or 2 ago), but it's mostly relevant.

From my understanding of the US Postal system there are several things involved in sending a package internationally.
- You will need to mail the package from a proper gov't run Post Office because some USPS Contract Postal Unit (smaller kiosks in supermarkets, malls, etc) do not handle Priority Mail Int'l (PMI) packages. What is unclear to me is whether or not they handle USPS 1st Class Air Mail Int'l.
- you should fill out a PS Form 2976/CN22 Customs Declaration form and attach it to the package (available at the post office, grab a few blank ones so you can fill them in ahead of time for your next post office run). It's a little 3"x4" green form that takes all of 30 seconds to fill out that states the package contents and value.
- determine the costs, speed, insurance, and liability (in the absence of insurance) and have the buyer to agree to it before completing the deal.

I usually get packages sent to me via 1st Class & PMI FR Envelope.

Here's a brief summary:
USPS 1st Class Air Mail Int'l ($0.72+).
PRO's: it's the cheapest
CON's: uninsurable, untrackable, and slowest.

Priority Mail Int'l Flat Rate ENVELOPE ($9.95 Can/Mexico, $11.95 others):
PRO's: it's the 2nd cheapest and sometimes faster than 1st Class Int'l
CON's: still uninsurable, untrackable, and sometimes slower than 1st Class Int'l

Priority Mail Int'l Flat Rate BOX ($23.95 Can/Mexico, $38.95 others):
PRO's: 3rd cheapest, should be faster than 1st Class, Insurable (fee), Trackable
CON's: more expensive, not at fast as EMS/GXG

Express Mail Int'l/Global Express Guaranteed/FedEx/UPS/etc
PRO's: fastest, fully insurable, trackable
CON's: expensive. Also, if using FedEx Ground/UPS Standard (only used for US-to-Canada pkgs) the recipient is subject to stupid expensive "brokerage" fees if the item/pkg is taxable.

I generally get packages sent via 1st Class Air Mail Int'l for almost all my packages unless the seller insists on sending it by some other method. 1st Class to Canada can take anywhere from 3 days to 3 weeks, depending on the origin and destination. Also, if the package does not have a CN22 customs form, this can delay the pkg even more (I had one take 6-7 weeks while Canada Customs held it for processing). I also make it very clear to the seller that I take all responsibility for loss/damage since it is uninsurable and untrackable. I think this is the other sore point with American sellers besides the hassle of going to the post office. If you want it insured and trackable, it'll cost a minimum of $23.95 to Canada/Mexico, $25.95 to others via Express Mail Int'l Flat Rate Envelope.

As for the question about Declared value and insurance, the declared value MUST be equal to or greater than insured value, otherwise you'd be raising a whole bunch of red flags. The post office guys and Customs guys aren't total morons. Then there's the question of marking the pkg as a gift or not. Some sellers refuse to do this while others are more accommodating. It can make a large difference in high tax countries (like Canada and Germany). For Canadians, we can only receive a package up to $20 CAD value without being taxed. If it is marked as a "Gift", the threshold is raised $60 CAD value. I believe Germany has even lower limits than us. Americans have a $200 USD personal importation limit so that's probably why they usually don't have a problem with what value others declare on the customs form when sending to a U.S. address.

That's about all I can think of for now. Hope this helps.

jbviau,

I have had many,many items from the USA.
I can say so far,delivery has been 100%,and most get to the UK within 2 weeks.I have only had two items out of say 90 take up to ten weeks to get here,those two must have came via the moon I think!!
Having said that,those are rare occasions.
I am very happy I can get items from the USA,without to many problems :thumbsup::thumbsup:

jbviau,

I have sent things all over the world, and the first thing you should decide is whether you mind going to your local P.O. vs. shipping with online USPS printing the labels on your laser printer, and your daily postman picks up.

I HATE going to my local P.O. because it is about 6 miles from my house, and ALWAYS has at least a 30 min wait line, and rates are slightly more expensive at the window...not to mention the gas expense for round trip.

For example, with home printing the International Priority Mail Flat Rate envelope is reduced down to $11.35 & includes a free delivery confirmation (even though it only records it going to your local post office--only Express is trackable internationally). Domestic USA Priority mail rates (flat rate envelope or 1 lb box) are $4.75 and again, includes the delivery confirmation (vs. at the window it is $4.80 + .65 for D.C.)

To print at home, you MUST have a legit postal scale, or you could use one of those crapola spring models from Staples, and add another 2-3 oz to the weight...because it is ok to be over-weight, but not under. Must also use a laser printer, as the inkjet will run/smear if gets wet from rain/snow. I use Avery 5126 adhesive "Shipping Labels" and my antique HP Laserjet 4L printer.

"Print Address" Label Option from home is also built into PayPal (unless buyer uses "service/other" option) which is handy. It spits you over to USPS coordinated link and fills in their address. Home printing allows you to specify the customs questions have it printed on a single label postage/customs form that you sign/date & your postman picks up.

You cannot do 1st Class International from home printing, as that requires the "PS 2976" form to be manually filled out, an additional address label affixed, and hand processing at window. As a result, I will NOT do 1st Class International.

I will give you one more very handy tip. Because the Flat Rate International (or Domestic) Priority Mail Envelope is cheaper, you can fit the USPS "Small Video P.M. Box #1096-S" into the flat rate envelope, even if heavier, and it gives some nice protection, and extra weight discounting at that $11.35 rate.

I would estimate that I have mailed at least 500 things internationally, all with USPS, and 100% have arrived. The longest to date was the battery pack I sent to Risky_P" which took about 3 weeks in Indonesia. The problem you face if someone in another country has a concern about receipt is they may reverse/appeal a credit card or PayPal delivery. Thus, I will not ship to Indonesia again unless they pay for Express Mail that I can track. Almost all other countries (except Canada--go figure) receive in 5-10 days. It is routine to take 2 weeks to Canada.

Not a hassle to me. Weigh the profit verses how you value your time. If people accept the markup I set for the additional time it takes me to prepare an item for international shipping, then I see no reason for me to deny them, or myself of a transaction.

For shipments to Germany:
Commercial goods: free up to 22 EUR (from Dec 1st, 2008: 150 EUR ! :rock
Gifts: free up to 45 EUR

And, yes, stating a higher value for insurance than value, would probably raise questions.

And PLEASE state the shipment costs upfront. I quite hate it, if I need to inquire about international shipping costs.

jbviau said:

Ok, well I see this has been moved to the Cafe now without a "Moved..." thread left behind where it started. I hope that doesn't mean no one will find it!

Click to expand...

A Google search from the top of any CPF page would have linked to several shipping threads with a lot of useful information in them already posted here.

Not all threads get a "Moved..."