How come I can't see the A2 at the SF site?

stangster

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How come I can\'t see the A2 at the SF site?

I went to surefire.com and I couldn't find the A2.
Is it too new a model? or too old?

Thanks
 

kimchikungfu

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Re: How come I can\'t see the A2 at the SF site?

It is neither, nor should this matter. Any company taking the internet seriously should have info on both new and old products readily available. The strange thing is the A2 has been featured in both the 2003 and 2002 SureFire catalogues, yet now, when it's actually selling it's nowhere to be seen on the website.

Btw, I've seen this question pop up elsewhere, and so far no one has come up with an explanation.

It remains a mystery.
 

chamenos

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Re: How come I can\'t see the A2 at the SF site?

surefire also now produces the 9P original, but its nowhere to be found on their site either /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 

McGizmo

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Re: How come I can\'t see the A2 at the SF site?

I am guessing here but I suspect that SureFire will likely add the A2 to their web site when the A2 is a mature and stable product and there is reasonable inventory available. I believe that SF is behind on filing orders for their LED flashlights. This is no doubt due in part to the production demands of the military given their active role as of late.

If, as I suspect, SF is not sitting on excess and available A2 inventory, it would be wise not to increase the demand and orders for these lights at present. Their web site does not seem to be keyed to actual stock on hand so placing the A2 on the site would likely generate back orders and unhappy customers who would be inquiring on expected delivery dates. No point on increasing demand on a product that is currently low on supply. I am blindly speculating here but would not be surprised to find I am right.

- Don
 
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Re: How come I can\'t see the A2 at the SF site?

McGizmo is correct. This topic has also been discussed in this thread: Manufacturer's Announcements > New products from SureFire.

Also, the 9P has been discontinued, which is why you won't find it on the site.

Regards,

Derek McDonald
SureFire
 

SUREFARC

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Re: How come I can\'t see the A2 at the SF site?

Thanks Derek! I heard SF is gonna use the same bezel design on the A2 as the one on the new KL1. Is that right?
 

Size15's

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Re: How come I can\'t see the A2 at the SF site?

Not at the moment at least from what I gather.

If you notice the KL1, L1 and Elite Bezels have the same part - that is why the transition of these Bezels has come first.

I guess we'll have to see whether other SureFire Bezels such as the A2, Standard Bezel & Millennium Series get the same treatment.

Al
 

kimchikungfu

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Re: How come I can\'t see the A2 at the SF site?

Thanks for clarifying that McGizmo and Derek.

Let me clarify my view too: when a business fails to meet demand it loses revenue. This may of course not always be bad for business, and I'm not suggesting that it is for SF. Increasing supply to meet demand means a number of tradeoffs have to be made. One of these deals with the marginal cost for every added batch, taking into account the needed capacity investments, etc, in relation to the expected income. On the other hand, a well known problem for manufacturers is that high initial demand, arising from the novelty of the product, being first-to-market, having superior quality or features, etc, cannot be met due to ramp-up problems in production, bad foresight, etc, and that when capacity finally increases, other factors have come into play and as a result demand has fallen. Just look at the mobile phone maker (Sony) Ericsson, who have been notoriously unsuccessful in this regard. Their new phones are always out of stock. Naturally, consumers take their business elsewhere. In this particular case they mainly take it to Nokia and Samsung, which is fine with me because they are both superior companies.

SF may of course feel safe in their market leading position, especially seeing as they have little competition across large parts of their product range. This fact, coupled with what seems like a healthy dose of secure government contracts are of course the envy of any manufacturer. But as every management book says on page one: we live in a "fiercely competitive" and "rapidly changing" world. And so does SF. It would bother me to see a company like SureFire resting on its laurels while others start copying their products. I hope they realize that entry barriers would be low. There are hundreds of workshops ready to sell time on the most sophisticated multi-axes CNC machines. And wouldn't it be ironic if the real SF challenge one day comes out of China, a country whose production capabilities the SF catalogue ridicules? It may happen, and is indeed happening to hundreds of businesses as we speak.

One way of preventing this is to grow organically. And what better way to do this than target all the "ordinary" people who are stuck with no-name, unreliable and underperforming flashlights, but who would want something better and be prepared to pay for it?

I guess the question I'm interested in here is this: does SF consider the aforementioned situation to be a problem or not? Or in other words, what's the priority of individual customers vs the Army, the Police, etc?

I'm not suggesting that individual customers are not important to SureFire. Hopefully they are, although some dealers I've talked to have suggested the opposite.

I'm just speculating here that demand from government agencies, the Military, the Police, etc, outweigh demand by individual customers by so much that there's simply no economy in catering to these individual customers and dealers?

If this is the case, SF could put an end to at least some of the speculations and disappointments by letting us know.

As much as I doubt that they will, I hope that, at some point, SF will begin to understand that this approach might, I say might, not be the best way to realize the full potential of their business, which I think is great in all other aspects than this.

Also, what I've said does not necessarily apply to the CPF community where there will always be people willing to wait for the newest SureFire light, no matter what.
 

ygbsm

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Re: How come I can\'t see the A2 at the SF site?

As an aside to Don's comment -- a concern straight out of Marketing 101 in a situation where you are not sitting on inventory of the new product, but you do have a large inventory of older models, is that if you announce your new product you may lose sales of your existing products as consumers wait for the new product to become available. Consumers ask themselves the question: "Why buy the older model when I can get a newer one with all these great new features?" This was the story with the first Osborne computer whose sales were drastically reduced in a way that arguably lead to the decline of the company by the premature announcement of a newer model. This may have been one of the untoward effects for SF of it's listing of the A2 in the 2002 catalog and an effect that they might be trying to avoid by not making a big public announcement of the A2 on their website right away. As anecdotal evidence of this effect, I myself held off buying (I know that's hard to believe coming from a flashaholic) other light for myself after I found out about the A2 until I was able to order the A2. In my case, I would have bought the A2 anyway when it came out, because of the features, but I might have also bought a number of the other SFs in the meantime. These sales might represent lost income for SF because of the early/premature announcement of the A2. The countervailing concern is the value of SF being thought of as an innovator, whose products demonstrate the superiority and cutting edge character of their designs and designers which I believe is a central component to SF's appeal. There's a lot I find troubling about the way they do things, but getting the marketing right is difficult task that requires both skill and luck (I'm not saying they got it right -- only time will tell about that story).
 

tkl

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Re: How come I can\'t see the A2 at the SF site?

sf needs a swift kick in the pants from competition. sooner of later, it'll happen.

actually, it's already started. they're trying to sue a new company into submission before they even get off the ground rather than go toe to toe. nice ethics surefire! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif
 

McGizmo

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Re: How come I can\'t see the A2 at the SF site?

tkl,

Please, if you know about some suit that gives credence to your statement then I can understand why you feel the way you do. Unfortunately, this alleged suit isn't public (CPF) knowledge to the best of my knowledge and it is likely indefensible by the folks you have criticized. If you are privy to the suit itself and are versed in all of the details, that's one thing and you are entitled to state your opinion but please qualify it as an opinion based on your understanding or knowledge. An unsupported statement as *fact* isn't really fair, IMHO.

If there is a pending suit, I would expect that the parties involved would likely not be making public statements about it nor would they be in a position to comment on it. Lack of comment doesn't make something true or false.

I think I have baited into this as has happened in the past. However, I don't plan to come back here for more discussion or commenting. From what I have seen and heard, behind the scenes, I feel SF has admirable ethics and I am surprised at your insinuation that they are using frivolous legal tactics to dampen the competition. You obviously know more than I do on the subject, or at least have been led to think you do? Whatever....

Frankly I am sometimes amazed at the depth of speculation and tangents that are explored in regards to SureFire. Are they the "establishment" and therefore guilty on principal?

My final word on this thread: /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Hugs and kisses,
Don
 

tkl

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Re: How come I can\'t see the A2 at the SF site?

don, with all due respect, you're hardly unbiased.

nobody bothers to defend mag while they sue at will. everybody just complains about how they hate mag.
 

FalconFX

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Re: How come I can\'t see the A2 at the SF site?

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif
 

McGizmo

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Re: How come I can\'t see the A2 at the SF site?

Oh man, the hooks in his mouth! Can he shake it out? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

TKL,

I am totally biased in thinking that SF makes premium illumination tools. I am also biased in the sense that I feel they have strong ethics and don't bother with many imitators unlike that other company. I do understand that SF has many patents and under the assumption that this alleged suit is based on patent infringement, our wonderful courts can decide ant the legal industry will have more funds in the coffers.

Yes, I am biased but not blind nor do I chose to presume. If you know something I don't and can stand by rather strong accusations, so be it. I'm not saying you're wrong in your statement but I do have strong doubts.

I don't want the hook in my mouth so please visualize a "spitting" Graemlin here. Can I have some popcorn?

As I said once before in another thread, seems like you might have a woodie for SF. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif Perhaps you have good reason.

Hey, could this be why we don't se the A2 on the SF web??? (weak attempt at getting back to topic)

- Don
 

FalconFX

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Re: How come I can\'t see the A2 at the SF site?

I seem to recall the KL1,KL2,KL3 bezels being availabe elsewhere first before appearing on the Surefire Website. IIRC, a few distributors had them and were shipping them out before it got on the official site as well.

I think it even came up on an international site (although you couldn't order it then) before it sprang up on the Mt View site...
 

ygbsm

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Re: How come I can\'t see the A2 at the SF site?

[ QUOTE ]
tkl said:
sf needs a swift kick in the pants from competition.

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree -- I believe all companies should face competition.
[ QUOTE ]
tkl said:
actually, it's already started. they're trying to sue a new company into submission before they even get off the ground rather than go toe to toe. nice ethics surefire! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Companies that spend time and resources on litigation may lose focus on what innovation marketing and other basic business fundamentals. Take Polaroid, winner of one of the largest patent infringement verdicts in history after mammoth, multi-year battle with Kodak over instant film technology as a cautionary tale. By focussing on the lawsuit and their existing patent portfolio, Polaroid won a huge amount of money -- but where are they now? For companies of smaller size, the effects may be magnified -- just because your company is smaller does not mean the legal costs are lower, or that the time of you key people who may be involved in depositions and their preparations, etc. is any less precious -- in fact, a patent lawsuit may well affect a higher percentage of key people in a smaller company. The other effect is that often the dollar cost of the lawsuit may end up being reflected in the price of the products of the companies involved. So the extra dollars you pay for your product might not have been for R&D or cool machining, etc. but to keep some high priced attorney's wingtips shiny.
 

FalconFX

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Re: How come I can\'t see the A2 at the SF site?

I'm glad they responsed to some questions here on CPF...
 

PieThatCorner

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Re: How come I can\'t see the A2 at the SF site?

I'm glad that SureFire added the A2 to their website along with the Backorder caveat.

In my own opinion, the A2 is deserving of more publicity, but I can understand both sides of the debate as to whether or not to market a product underscored by its availability, or non-availability as it were.

Ah, but I digress... I have my A2 so I'm happy. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/twak.gif -Jim
 
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