Pulling over for unmarked LE vehicles..

My dad and I were driving on interstate 5 and saw a regular tan/gold colored SUV on that had pulled over a car. All the SUV had was blue and red lights flashing behind the grill. So we starting wondering, is a person obligated to pull over if they see an unmarked vehicle with lights flashing behind them? I know people are sometimes concerned about fake cops. Not long ago on the news I remember there was someone out in a black SUV with blue and red lights pulling people over and robbing them. So what can someone do if they are concerned about this type of thing happening?

Chuck289 said:

My dad and I were driving on interstate 5 and saw a regular tan/gold colored SUV on that had pulled over a car. All the SUV had was blue and red lights flashing behind the grill. So we starting wondering, is a person obligated to pull over if they see an unmarked vehicle with lights flashing behind them? I know people are sometimes concerned about fake cops. Not long ago on the news I remember there was someone out in a black SUV with blue and red lights pulling people over and robbing them. So what can someone do if they are concerned about this type of thing happening?

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I think you can call 911 and tell them that there's a car with red & blue lights trying to pull you over, and they can send a regular police car to your location.

Turn your blinker on to indicate to the officer that you see him and intend to pullover. Then proceed to somewhere well lighted and visible to other people. I wouldn't think an impersonator would pick a busy interstate to be doing such a thing. If you have a cell phone you could call 911 and tell the operator what was going on. If it is a real LEO he/she will be able to tell you or get a uniformed officer there to assist you.........or him.

Call 911 and ask for mark Highway Patrol car, I'v done that a few time.

All the above. This has been an issue for many years and most professional LEO's understand and will not hold it against you, but be prepared for that rare jerk. That's why an immediate call to 911 would be prudent.

I would pull over, after I have slowed, aknowledged the lights/prescence, called 911 if possible, and if not available for whatever reason (dead area no cell whatever) driven to a well lit, public, and publically occupied place. A real officer will understand your caution as long as you show definitly you are not trying to escape.

Generally good advice here.

Unmarked cop cars have the authority to stop other cars. I've done it--though only for felony suspects, who, in most cases we knew to be guilty. We tried to have a marked vehicle make the stop when possible.

LE agencies and courts are well aware of imposters who attempt to stop cars. Therefore, a certain leeway is granted depending on many circumstances, but don't take this too far. You could get your car spiked or rammed if you fail to stop. You may be arrested and your car seized and charges filed. That is much more likely than being stopped by a bogus cop.

You should slow down to the speed limit, or slightly slower, but don't crawl along the bike lane or shoulder--that looks like a drunk driver or an imminent bailout. Don't make any sudden turnoffs or lane changes. Try to go straight down a major street, in the right lane, obeying all traffic rules, including stops and yields. Don't make any suspicious movements in the cabin such as reaching for something, hiding something or throwing something out the window. Don't go to a residential area, let alone your house--that looks like you're preparing to ambush the officer on your turf. Don't get on the freeway. If you know a nearby police station, you should go there--that doesn't look too guilty! If not, a fire station or military base would be ideal but any open for business parking lot might have to suffice. I've had people do that to me even when I was driving a marked vehicle.

However, you can't delay the stop forever. Once a second cop car shows up, or a helicopter, you need to stop immediately. Be prepared to endure a felony/high risk stop procedure--guns drawn, "Driver step out of the car with hands up. Lay down on the ground." Handcuffed, etc. When people fail to stop, it's usually because they are attempting to flee.

Good post, Lightraven.

Older women in San Diego will drive until they are in a public, lighted area with people around. There was a BIG stink awhile back down there over this guy:

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/15178487/detail.html

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/15188876/detail.html

In California I would ignore any vehicle that had flashing lights only.
The law *only* requires a single steady burning light to the front.

Years ago a friensd was stopped in a "town" near Santa Rosa by an unmarked vehicle. A very polite "officer" spoke with him about some minor infraction. Dennis went home and mentioned it to his dad. His dad, an inspector with the CHP had a little talk with the self appointed police officer.

Good discussion! While driving through Texas, I was surprised to see unmarked pick up trucks being used by law enforcement for traffic stops. They had those behind the windshield lights that are almost invisible until they are turned on. They seemed to be very effective, but I can see why somebody might question whether they were being stopped by a real officer or not.

Chuck289 said:

My dad and I were driving on interstate 5 and saw a regular tan/gold colored SUV on that had pulled over a car. All the SUV had was blue and red lights flashing behind the grill. So we starting wondering, is a person obligated to pull over if they see an unmarked vehicle with lights flashing behind them? I know people are sometimes concerned about fake cops. Not long ago on the news I remember there was someone out in a black SUV with blue and red lights pulling people over and robbing them. So what can someone do if they are concerned about this type of thing happening?

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I've traveled that stretch of road between SF and LA/SD probably 50-some-odd times throughout my life. The only kinds of LEO vehicles I have ever seen are CHP (Cal highway Patrol). They are the typically decorated LEO vehicles, and theres no questioning their purpose. I wonder if that SUV was a special branch of LE?... and not your typical traffic offense?

I served for 12 years as a county constable here in Mississippi. I only left office a few months ago. Constables are elected and provide their own vehicles. For a few years I used a Crown Vic. Then I switched to an SUV and I put blue LED's on the push bumper, in the grille, on the roof, on the mirrors, on the dash and wig-wag headlights. To the rear was just as many. My reasoning was that an impersonator might have a dash light and probably not much more. As many blue lights as I had it is pretty obvious that I was not someone who wasn't official. I made literally hundreds of traffic stops. Maybe even thousands of traffic stops, in both rural areas and on interstate 55. I only had less than a dozen that didn't stop immediately because of concern about my being a real LEO. At night especially, how would someone know what kind of car, marked or not was behind them with over a dozen blue lights flashing? I say if you see only a dash light be suspicious. If you see what looks like a blue/red UFO behind you then it's probably legit. I had a drunk driver stopped one night and he commented, "Hoss, you might need one or two more blue lights. I ain't sure the space shuttle could quite see you."

I was in a fender bender with a nutjob whose first words were that he was a federal agent (later also claimed to be a Navy SEAL wounded in Afghanistan). Because I work and live around federal agents and Navy SEALs, these claims weren't implausible. I believed it, initially, but his actions became so unhinged and belligerent that it became clear he was lying. He demanded my license, registration, and insurance paperwork--wearing shorts, polo shirt, chomping a cigar and driving a Toyota. He got into my car and opened my glove compartment. He poked me in the chest. He demanded I call the highway patrol.

I showed incredible restraint, because I know how off duty road rage situations are a huge can of worms. Two off duty shootings of drunk drivers/road rage idiots in San Diego are huge running stories in the media--one of a drunk former pro football player for the Chargers (city settled for $5.5 million) and another of a psycho drunk/stoned woman and her young son (both were shot). One of our guys was arrested for supposedly flashing his gun during some sort of mutual road rage situation.

This guy's son was sitting in his car and I wanted to avoid making the newspaper front page at any cost.

In the end, he called me at home demanding insurance information. When I refused because he had not given me any information, he said he would lie to my boss who he couldn't name but was "good friends with." He finally admitted he had State Farm insurance. I hung up. He called my insurance and his own, but got no payment because our versions of events were too different. I also called the FBI, just in case. They didn't want to pursue it because he had not flashed a badge at me. Though not an element of the federal crime (Search while impersonating a Federal Agent), it would have been impossible to prove in court.

As said call 911 if you are afraid or let the officer know 'hey no offense, can I also have a marked/uniformed officer present due to a lot of impersonators?'.

A lot of unmarkeds also have uniformed le. or they will have vests/ids/badges displaying their agnecy.

Lastly many LE agencies esp fed will have unmarked cars you never expected .

kramer5150 said:

I've traveled that stretch of road between SF and LA/SD probably 50-some-odd times throughout my life. The only kinds of LEO vehicles I have ever seen are CHP (Cal highway Patrol). They are the typically decorated LEO vehicles, and theres no questioning their purpose. I wonder if that SUV was a special branch of LE?... and not your typical traffic offense?

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This was actually on I5 north of Sacramento, heading up to Mt Shasta. Ive seen a couple of unmarked vehicles that have pulled cars over. But I have no way of telling wether they were CHP or Sheriff.

Many agencies have policies against conducting traffic stops in unmarked vehicles. The most likely reason you'll see an unmarked running code is that they're trying to get somewhere in a hurry or are backing up another officer along the roadside.

Personally I'd never pull over and stop for an unmarked, and I doubt if a judge would disagree with me if it ever went to court. I would however get out of the way of anything behind me flashing red or blue.

Lots of unmarked units running around, but they aren't giving out tickets, generally, in California. They are usually hunting felons.

CHP runs low visibility vehicles which are all white and have no light bar. It wouldn't look like a cop car in the rear view mirror.

For this reason, NOT stopping for an unmarked or low vis vehicle could result in way more excitement than most people can handle. Your car may match one that just left a takeover bank robbery and the FBI may lock on to you by mistake. They won't take "No" for an answer. Long before you see any obvious cop cars, your car tires may be spiked or your car rammed off the road. It isn't unusual for LE officers to shoot at (and kill) fleeing felons if the circumstances justify it under Graham versus Conner. Because you ran, they will believe you are guilty of something and you're going to be arrested regardless for failing to stop.

Getting bail may be difficult since you've demonstrated a propensity to flee. So, you get a lawyer and wait in jail for your trial to come up so you can tell a judge that you only stop for marked police cars, on principle.

Judges rule on law, which has supported the authority to make stops without any identifying markings. In California, a forward facing steady red is enough. I'm pretty sure that is in the California Vehicle Code. The feds typically only have that, and their authority trumps state law.

It's a situational judgement call. A female, alone, at night on a lightly traveled road would be foolish to stop. The 911 call and driving straight to a fire station or other well lit location with people around would be most prudent and the "reasonable person" test would surely prevail.

A vehicle with multiple occupants in a situation where other motorists or people are around should probably stop immediately.

Again, an immediate call to 911 would pretty much trump everything else as far as proof of non-intent to flee, as would putting on emergency flashers, a wave or other gesture to the LEO indicating you see him and intend to comply.

Unfortunately, the media, starting with Rodney King and continuing adinfinitium, have cause the average citizen to fear and mistrust LEO's more than ever in our history. We see the few bad episodes (and some that are not so bad but are made to look that way) repeated over and over. It's crap, but most people believe it as gospel.

The second most dangerous situation for a LEO (after a domestic disturbance) is a traffic stop. Standing alongside a busy roadway is not their idea of a desireable situation. Most LEOs dislike working traffic and writing tickets -- they would much rather be catching burglars or other BGs.

Don't let your ego get in the way when dealing with a LEO. You can't win on the street. You're far better off complying with the LEOs directions and then taking your problems to department management or the courts. The LEO interacts with citizens numerous time per day. The average person interacts with a LEO once every couple of years, and generally, the situation does not have a positive resolution as far as the citizen is concerned (i.e; you get a ticket or worse). Most LEOs understand this and want the encounter to be as brief and simple as possible. They really don't want to listen to your interpretation of the law. There are, of course, the few that trip on power and want to jerk you around, just because they can, but fortunately these are rare, although they do have an inordinate negative impact on the publice perception of law enforcement in general. The professional LEOs dislike these jerks more than the citizens do.

In the few traffic interactions I've had with police, I immediately acknowledge them and stop as safely a possible, pulling onto a less busy side street or getting as far away from traffic as possible. The veteran officers understand and appreciate it. I had one rookie get bent out of shape because I didn't stop immediately. After he cooled down and listened to my explanation, he expressed understanding and appreciation for my concern for his (and my safety).

BTW, my credentials -- I spent a number of years as a military and civvy LEO and then in emergency management. Graduate of two major academys, a BS in the field , and lots of time on the street.

Lightraven said:

Lots of unmarked units running around, but they aren't giving out tickets, generally, in California. They are usually hunting felons.

CHP runs low visibility vehicles which are all white and have no light bar. It wouldn't look like a cop car in the rear view mirror.

For this reason, NOT stopping for an unmarked or low vis vehicle could result in way more excitement than most people can handle. Your car may match one that just left a takeover bank robbery and the FBI may lock on to you by mistake. They won't take "No" for an answer. Long before you see any obvious cop cars, your car tires may be spiked or your car rammed off the road. It isn't unusual for LE officers to shoot at (and kill) fleeing felons if the circumstances justify it under Graham versus Conner. Because you ran, they will believe you are guilty of something and you're going to be arrested regardless for failing to stop.

Getting bail may be difficult since you've demonstrated a propensity to flee. So, you get a lawyer and wait in jail for your trial to come up so you can tell a judge that you only stop for marked police cars, on principle.

Judges rule on law, which has supported the authority to make stops without any identifying markings. In California, a forward facing steady red is enough. I'm pretty sure that is in the California Vehicle Code. The feds typically only have that, and their authority trumps state law.

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The California agency I worked for didn't allow the detective cars to have lights or sirens after several incidents which took years to finally reach settlement. The marked car I drove didn't have push bars, and the jumper cables in the trunk were actually just a single cable so I could only jump other city vehicles that also had a single cable. California is all about liabilty and the days of Starsky and Hutch are long gone. If there is an agency left in this state that has a use of force policy that escalates up to deadly force for merely failing to yield to a suspicious car with a red light, then you'll probably find a car full of lawyers tailing not too far behind them.