Reproducing the Polaroid 'look' with LEDs...?

Karel B

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  • The older folk among you will remember the unearthly 'look' of the sadly defunct polaroid SX70 film, but here's a reminder:

    polaroid-1.jpg


    More here:

    http://polafiction.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/ukiah.jpg

    http://polafiction.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/jacobanne.jpg

    Some of you may be tempted to say this is easily reproducible with a soft lens and a bit of grading, but it's more subtle than that.

    Here's the spectral sensitivity of a Kodak stock:

    2683706570_c4eb273185.jpg


    Which is pretty close to that of the human eye:

    2683706566_b0a356dfac.jpg


    and this is a video CCD chip:

    Video_Camera_spectral_sensitivity.jpg


    Which is why video is always a poor second to film in color reproduction (ignore the size of the green peak and look at how broad the RGB sensitivities are).

    Now take a look at Polaroid:

    Polaroid_spectral_sensitivity.jpg


    Just looking at the curves you'd think this would yield a crap image. but it doesn't - it yields beautiful images with strange turquoise skies.

    Now i've been thinking for a while about how to achieve the Polaroid 'look', and several things can be learnt from these curves:

    1) video will never record images in that way
    2) you can't do it in post. No computer will be able to distinguish blues of 400nm or 500nm - it will be just recorded as blue, either on film or on video.
    3) you can do it with lighting!

    If you can light a subject with RGB lights that emit a narrow waveband you will, in theory, produce images that look like Polaroids. I've looked at commercially available gels and their transmition curves are not narrow enough at the required colors.

    So here is my challenge to you: are there R G & B LEDs out there, at a reasonable price, that have spectral curves similar to those above.

  • Ironically, the best Polaroid pictures were taken in daylight, whereas an LED based lighting system would be used indoors.
 
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Manzerick

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There's just somehting about a Polaroid that reminds me of childhood!!!!



Some things so small yet full of details that make it "right". Good luck with your project!!


:)
 

snarfer

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I think the reason it looks good is the unusually wide range of color sensitivity. It's hard to find an LED with peak at 425nm. Luxeon Rebel in royal blue is still only 440nm. And the spectral sensitivity of the film actually appears to extend almost into the ultraviolet. On the red end, same thing, the peak is deep red at 630nm. Most red LEDs peak at a more orange wavelength.

I think for the red end you could use OSRAM TopLED Super Red. But for the blue, I don't know. Maybe Nichia has a product.
 

StarHalo

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2) you can't do it in post. No computer will be able to distinguish blues of 400nm or 500nm - it will be just recorded as blue, either on film or on video.

You can do it close enough to fool people, I'd wager. I futzed around in Photoshop for a few minutes and came up with this:

Original
Test1.jpg


and the "Fauxlaroid":
Test2.jpg


With some practice and a bit more time, it'd probably closer yet to the Polaroid..
 

IMSabbel

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Ah, its funny.
For decades the Polaroid R&D department struggled to improve the very biased and unnatural reproduction of their colour films. And now people want to emulate it...

Like the poster before i just want to reinforce: the "look" is just because of the sensor. You wont reproduce it by changing the lighting...


Btw: your pics are almost all missing.
 

snarfer

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On further reflection I agree with IMSabbel. The polaroid look you desire is a function of the emulsion and the lens, not the lighting. Besides, how would you light the sky with LEDs anyway?

Depending on your capture medium, I would expect that with a few hours screwing around in Shake you could produce as good an approximation as you could hope for.

I also suspect that the latitude of the sensor is more important than the specific spectral sensitivity. Your typical video camera probably just can't capture enough in the highlights to get images like these, and no amount of work in post, short of wholesale background replacement, will fix it.

If what you're trying to do is to shoot a movie for potential theatrical release. And your set is a boat. And you want to shoot on video due to budgetary restrictions. And you want to achieve this kind of look. Then you will probably have a very hard time of it unless you can afford a camera with at least a 2/3" sensor, or, better yet, a Red, a Dalsa, something like that.
 

Karel B

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Late here, but I''l just post this quickly.

Hope I fixed the pics. I've used Flickr this time.

This thread is nothing at all to do with the other one wich is about finding a way of lighting a boat interior cheaply. Polaroid has been a hobby horse for a while - I used to take a lot of SX70 photos.

And no, you'll never 'fix' the sky with LEDs. I know that. :huh: Shake or After Effects would have to do that.

For interiors the only way I can see is with lighting...

But now I'm wondering if that would really work. As I said, late here.

I will will return...
 

StarHalo

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When I did the "Fauxlaroid" pic, the biggest single change I made was to the number/amount of colors in the image (aka saturation). In each of the three photos you posted, the most notable feature was the remarkably narrow number of colors that were rendered, probably no more than a couple hundred unique colors per image.

The only way to reproduce this with lighting would be using extremely low CRI sources, such as sodium halide bulbs - one of these through an amber/brown filter might be as close as you're going to get. The sickly green light + dirty brown filter sounds like the correct formula for Polaroid-esque lighting.

I also used a healthy dose of blur, which you can't force-reproduce with the eye (save smudged glasses..)
 

snarfer

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Sorry if I was speculating a little too much there about your intentions...

Here is a relevant link:

http://web.mit.edu/neltnerb/www/artwork/index.html

These guys have done a lot of research into the effect of LED lighting on perceived color, dyes, etc...

Just watch out for the PCBs. It looks like someone didn't realize that the Eagle PCB autorouter does not have tiny magic elves inside who calculate all your electrical requirements for you...
 
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