The Jupiter Initiative

I'm all for the happier mood in regards to exploration...yet I'm also a little bitter about what national treasure we've spent and lost (stolen) to have gotten to where we are.

I would like the space program to start paying a little more back in terms of technology that actually helps the common man get ahead over here...or more forcefully put...a program that continually provides for us a concrete economic advantage over other countries besides the miltary edge that we should be pursuing with the lion's share of any budget (simply to defend ourselves and/or project our will).

Heck, we can't even manage to be the leader in launching commercial or private rocketry (the last time I checked) ...and I'm sure as heck concerned as to what the Chinese and Russians are up to once again... considering that they've costed us literally trillions already for no darn good reason other than their nasty socialistic goals.

Hopeful?...Yes

Realistic in terms of what space exploration is truly costing us when combined with what we already have to do just to stay ahead of those who don't give a damn about anybody but themselves....you betcha.

The space program has paid many dividends for the commercial / civillian sector. Just like military advancements have helped the civillians, like with GPS, kevlar, etc.

I don't how to measure the benefits, but they are there.

Also, as humans, the intellectual gains from the space program is not measured in dollars. To learn about the mysteries of the universe, our solar system and beyond, is priceless.

The knowledge of these things that people prior to us have wondered about for all their lives and never got the answers to before they died is truly worthwhile.

After all, in 500 years, it won't matter that we made money on the space program, but rather that the knowledge gained will still be very important.

We are still the wealthiest nation on the planet, and thanks to our technology, we are where we're at. Innovation from the military and space program has enriched this economy greatly so far.

LED-holic said:

"..The space program has paid many dividends for the commercial / civillian sector. I don't how to measure the benefits, but they are there....Also, as humans, the intellectual gains from the space program is not measured in dollars. To learn about the mysteries of the universe, our solar system and beyond, is priceless. The knowledge of these things that people prior to us have wondered about for all their lives and never got the answers to before they died is truly worthwhile..."

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When our economy was rolling along with enough steam to put 400,000 people to work for a moonwalk...one could probably say that a race against the Russians was priceless. When major US financial institutions are degraded to the point of borrowing from the very parts of the world that our enemies inhabit and when even major former foes hold most all of our debt..."intellectual" programs are measured in accountable dollars (imo) and not a mission on this planet becomes more priceless than protecting the freedoms that nobody else shares or security worries/expenses right here at home that have never been truly quantified.

Explain to me that the next war; natural disaster; total (properly maintained) infrastructure expense or worse yet (we know its coming) catastrophic attack is certainly "covered" by my currently depressed wage driven grossly-in-debt tax dollars...and I'm all over notnecessarily worrying about how we're going to fund space exploration at the same level that we have in the past.

We don't get along with the rest of the world (never have)...and standing up for what is right and wrong will always trump what 'could be' every single time that your two other major countries can't grasp the difference (unfortunately).

Rzr800 said:

I would like the space program to start paying a little more back in terms of technology that actually helps the common man get ahead over here...

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Had NASA been a public company it would have been the largest and most successful in history.
Developments by them are in *every* walk of life from garbage handling to dentists (the development of small ball bearings led to higher speed drills.) and the stuff they put into the public sector literally fills a book.
The advances in the miniaturization of medical equipment started with them.

Computer programs used to study materials have been used to design lighter and stronger equipment of all sorts from your car to teh tractors that till the fields.

Airplanes are safer and lighter as a result of many NASA developments and even the SCBA that firefighters use today is lighter and holds more air.

Mike Painter said:

Had NASA been a public company it would have been the largest and most successful in history.
Developments by them are in *every* walk of life from garbage handling to dentists (the development of small ball bearings led to higher speed drills.) and the stuff they put into the public sector literally fills a book.
The advances in the miniaturization of medical equipment started with them.

Computer programs used to study materials have been used to design lighter and stronger equipment of all sorts from your car to teh tractors that till the fields.

Airplanes are safer and lighter as a result of many NASA developments and even the SCBA that firefighters use today is lighter and holds more air.

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I seem to have not made my point clear enough; as it's been countered with the obvious twice now.

The funding of everyday items that the world effectively used to make their life better was indeed a gift to many of these these nations that sure as heck weren't coming up with it on their own and who were darn sure not going to pay for the privelege of using that technology going forward.

As Americans, we should certainly feel proud of what we could do when we had the funds (certainly a matter of debate with many space programs in analyzing their final impact and how they were run) but cognizant of the fact that we simply don't have that kind of cash anymore! (heck, we don't even have the guts to make it known by stiffening our espionage laws in academia especially...that getting caught lifting any more of our publicly funded ideas or hard work... might just set up a meeting with one's maker a little earlier than planned!).

What can now be accomplished and should be prevented/stopped in near space militarily...is and should be taking a greater and greater slice out of what 'could' have been spent in deep space or interplanetary exploration...period. As the planet grows; competition arises and our resources of all kinds dwindle; it is imperative that our total available budget be taken into account unlike it was back in the 60's right on up to and including today.

If anybody wants a similiar space program outlay in dollars, I'm all for it.

Simply assure me that the Chinese and Russians aren't going to play the same game that we did to previously screw with them on the military/economic side...using technology that not only (now) works...but which can be effectively deployed to disrupt multi-billion dollar space programs in an instant (when everybody's on board and not just there to steal from you...I agree, life and the search for more...certainly is a beautiful thing).

FWIW, Richard C Hoaglund says NASA means never a straight answer. I wonder why he says that?

Rzr800 said:

(heck, we don't even have the guts to make it known by stiffening our espionage laws in academia especially...that getting caught lifting any more of our publicly funded ideas or hard work..

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Science done in secret is rarely science and I happen to believe that if something is funded by the public they have every right to it.

Mike Painter said:

Science done in secret is rarely science and I happen to believe that if something is funded by the public they have every right to it.

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Nobody in this world should have the 'right' to anything publicly funded by our taxpayer funded dollars...and especially the type of true (non apoligetic/pc free) science program created intentionally beyond the reach of a higher educational institution's grasp.

We've been giving 'it' away for far to long now...and receiving absolutely nothing in return from those who have profited from 'it' in terms of simple goodwill or even national support.