Dereelight DBS V2 Poor or Damaged Engraving Concern

Have any of you Dereelight owners seen anything like this in terms of the engraving on your DBS V2 (or other Dereelight) flashlight?

This one's fresh out of the box, and my thought is that something didn't quite take during the engraving (however the process works)...

...unless this is just the way they tend to look.

The rest of the finish is beautiful. The engraving (at least on this one) leaves a lot to be desired.

Re: Dereelight DBS V2 White Paint Question/Concern

varuscelli said:

Have any of you Dereelight owners seen anything like this in terms of the white paint on your DBS V2 (or other Dereelight) flashlight?

This one's fresh out of the box, and my thought is that something didn't quite take during the engraving/painting (however the process works)...

...unless this is just the way they tend to look.

The rest of the finish is beautiful. The paint (at least on this one) leaves a lot to be desired.

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In the second shot you can actually see the individual dots caused by the laser engraver. It's not white paint. They engrave the light after the type III anodizing is applied. The bare aluminum by contrast simply appears to be white. AFAIK, there is no clear coat applied after engraving. It's just bare metal.

The engraving's not defective. It looks like some form of mild corrosion. Probably from a contaminant that came in contact with the metal after engraving.

Re: Dereelight DBS V2 White Paint Question/Concern

Made in China :wave:

Re: Dereelight DBS V2 White Paint Question/Concern

Al Combs said:

In the second shot you can actually see the individual dots caused by the laser engraver. It's not white paint. They engrave the light after the type III anodizing is applied. The bare aluminum by contrast simply appears to be white. AFAIK, there is no clear coat applied after engraving. It's just bare metal.

The engraving's not defective. It looks like some form of mild corrosion. Probably from a contaminant that came in contact with the metal after engraving.

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Thanks, Al, I appreciate the help. I'm not familiar with the engraving process, so please excuse my lack of proper terminology.

So, if I'm understanding correctly, the areas of the engraving that appear gray rather than white look to be some kind of corrosion, perhaps? Much like a form of rust? ("Rust" -- corrosion -- being kind of what it looks like now that you've somewhat explained what might have happened.)

I wonder, then, if it might just be cleaned up using some kind of metal cleaner? My guess is probably not.

Is this kind of corrosion a common thing?

Moreover, would this be a commonly acceptable product delivery?

Just trying to get my brain wrapped around what I'm seeing so I can figure out what, if anything, to do about it.

Thanks for any feedback!

Re: Dereelight DBS V2 Engraving/Corrosion Concern

I asked about this directly in the MarketPlace, and the dealer seems to think it's something else. The response, though, doesn't offer any suggested resolution, like an offer to replace or anything.

Dereelight said:

It's not corrosion, perhaps the laser machine bad or the HAIII surface too hard.

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Am I overblowing this as a questionable fit-and-finish issue?

Re: Dereelight DBS V2 Engraving/Corrosion Concern

varuscelli said:

I asked about this directly in the MarketPlace, and the dealer seems to think it's something else. The response, though, doesn't offer any suggested resolution, like an offer to replace or anything.



Am I overblowing this as a questionable fit-and-finish issue?

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I would not be happy with that JUNK :green:. Ask the seller for a new better replacement light. from where have you bought it ?

I don't believe that anyone here on CPF would be happy with that light..??? (It's looks like it was used very hard.)

Re: Dereelight DBS V2 Engraving/Corrosion Concern

Daark said:

I would not be happy with that JUNK :green:. Ask the seller for a new better replacement light. from where have you bought it ?

I don't believe that anyone here on CPF would be happy with that light..??? (It's looks like it was used very hard.)

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The rest of the body of the flashlight is quite beautiful, to my eyes, and I see nothing else that I would consider an imperfection in the finish. I haven't actually used the flashlight yet, as I am awaiting the arrival of 18650 batteries from AW.

The engraving on this DBS V2 is the only concern, and even though the photos I showed are very much close-ups, the imperfections in the engraving are readily visible to the naked eye.

I wouldn't go so far as to call it JUNK, though. Just poor or damaged engraving.

Re: Dereelight DBS V2 Poor Engraving or Corrosion Concern

Is it Allan who have delivered this light to you..? (Second hand quality)

Re: Dereelight DBS V2 Poor Engraving or Corrosion Concern

I think I remember someone saying that the white colour within the laser engraving is a ceramic that is formed by vaporisation of the anodisation, it does scrape off quite easily (I think mine came off a light once with some grease when I was lubricating it) and isn't anything to worry about.

Andrew

Re: Dereelight DBS V2 Poor Engraving or Corrosion Concern

Daark said:

Is it Allan who have delivered this light to you..? (Second hand quality)

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It was ordered via the website at www.dereelight.com

I was under the impression that was the main source.

(Self Edit: Part of my response removed for fear of furthering some of the implied info from a previous post. Sorry I took the bait.)

Re: Dereelight DBS V2 Poor Engraving or Corrosion Concern

Daark, you've been quite a nuisance in the last few days, arguing, giving bad and unwanted advice and now trolling and rudeness in this thread. I've warned you twice already, but to no apparent effect.

Take a few days off. When you return, we will expect to see a change in your attitude.

Re: Dereelight DBS V2 Poor Engraving or Corrosion Concern

Daark said:

Is it Allan who have delivered this light to you..? (Second hand quality)

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Made in China :wave:

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Daark,
Why the China and Dereelight bashing:shakehead? I have 3 Dereelights and I've found Allan to be a great guy to deal with(He doesn't sell factory seconds).

I believe the white is a residue from the laser engraving. One of my Novatacs had some of the white lettering missing(faded), it didn't seem to affect the beam though.

Re: Dereelight DBS V2 Poor Engraving or Corrosion Concern

IIRC my two novatacs had the white residue,it could be scratched off using a finger nail.
It certainly is not corrosion, personally I would not worry about it.

Re: Dereelight DBS V2 White Paint Question/Concern

varuscelli said:

Thanks, Al, I appreciate the help. I'm not familiar with the engraving process, so please excuse my lack of proper terminology.

So, if I'm understanding correctly, the areas of the engraving that appear gray rather than white look to be some kind of corrosion, perhaps? Much like a form of rust? ("Rust" -- corrosion -- being kind of what it looks like now that you've somewhat explained what might have happened.)

I wonder, then, if it might just be cleaned up using some kind of metal cleaner? My guess is probably not.

Is this kind of corrosion a common thing?

Moreover, would this be a commonly acceptable product delivery?

Just trying to get my brain wrapped around what I'm seeing so I can figure out what, if anything, to do about it.

Thanks for any feedback!

Click to expand...

Sorry, I did not mean to imply I was that familiar with the process myself. I'd merely read about computerized laser engraving machines. I have no first hand knowledge of them myself. When I said corrosion, that was just my best guess. It's what it looked like to me.

As far as is it common... I have several lights with laser engraving on them. If you look very closely with a magnifier, there is always a slight variation in surface color. None of them are quite as noticeable as the pictures of your new DBS.

On second glance at your pictures, I wonder from cdosrun's post if the white stuff isn't added somehow and the gray areas are what's normal engraving. The individual dimples caused by the laser seem more pronounced in the gray areas than in the white. Do you have a high powered magnifier? What do your Fenix lights look like side by side with your DBS? It's a little hard to tell from a picture.

Could you clean it with metal cleaner? I would wait on that just in case you decide to ask Alan for an exchange. Maybe a pencil eraser might help. That won't harm the type III anodizing, but a chemical might. Again by way of cdosrun's post, are you removing the white or the gray?

I read your post in the CPFMP. As to whether or not you're making too much of the issue. I guess only you can say if it bothers you enough to undergo the time and expense of exchanging it. In any case, good luck with your new light.

Re: Dereelight DBS V2 Poor Engraving or Corrosion Concern

I appreciate the feedback everyone has provided on this, and thank you all for that.

With the light of day to help me, I have done some extreme close-up photos of the laser engraved areas, and from those photos I can clearly tell that it is certainly the whitish coating that the laser apparently leaves that has been rubbed off. It's definitely not corrosion, but...."erosion," for lack of a better word at the moment. The grayish areas of bare metal are beneath the whitish coating and when the white coating gets rubbed off, the gray of the bare or semi-bare metal remains.

With the close-up photos, the pitted areas where there is no longer much of that coating left really do show up. It's kind of like icing on a cake that someone has rubbed their finger across, removing all or most of the icing in some spots.

I'll have to post some photos later once I've had a chance to process them to a postable form. (All I'm doing now is looking at them in raw format on the PC.)

I'm kind of torn about this. To me, the white coating seems to be a big part of what makes the logo, lettering, and numbering look good and show up well. I think it adds a great deal of beauty to the logo, etc, in that those things stand out vividly from the dark anodized casing. If it's inevitable that it's all going to come off, that's one thing. On the other hand, it's kind of like buying a new car that already has a few scratches and dings. The argument could be made that those things are going to happen eventually . . . but on whose watch? Using a car as an example might be a bit far fetched in terms of comparable money, but insert whatever "new" thing you'd like in place of it (and to me, I can't consider this an inexpensive flashlight). I'm not compulsive about keeping everything that I own pristine condition (I'm far from that with most things), but when I buy something new, I do like it to look new. So at this particular point, I have to admit to disappointment in the out-of-the-box appearance of this flashlight's engraving.

Re: Dereelight DBS V2 Poor Engraving or Corrosion Concern

Your call on this one. I would either keep it, or replace it, depending on my mood of the day. I received a Boker Subcom F direct from Boker with the finish less than perfect. I kept it. The imperfection still bothers me, but I would rather use the product now than RMA a replacement. You could always purchase another one with the stipulation that the engraving be checked before shipping while at the same time preparing to return your current DBS for a refund .

Re: Dereelight DBS V2 Poor Engraving or Corrosion Concern

I'm going to post a couple of much more close-up shots to show more what the engraved areas of the DBS look like. In some respects, showing photos this close up can be a bit unfair. But in this case, it's only showing more closely what can already been seen with the naked eye. So, I'm hoping these just help to clarify what I'm seeing.

I wonder of this could possibly be be a case of some kind of buffing process that might have removed the upper crust of the laser engraving, since the surface almost looks like it was rubbed or scraped off somehow. That's one of my latest guesses, in any case. I really have no idea what takes place in the overall process after engraving, so I'm just speculating.

I've got several more photos posted on my site, too, that can be seen by clicking the link below (some just interesting from the standpoint of being so close up with the Canon MP-E 65mm macro lens).

Al's Dereelight DBS V2

Re: Dereelight DBS V2 Poor Engraving or Corrosion Concern

A couple of NiteCore D10 shots for at least somewhat of a comparison.

Re: Dereelight DBS V2 Poor Engraving or Corrosion Concern

Varuscelli,

I did a little bit of searching around the net and it appears as though the white colour is as I mentioned before, a conversion of the anodisation to a white ceramic/crystalline powder. With all my torches, this powder can be scratched off very easily with a finger nail; in fact, I deliberately scratched the Novatac URL of my 120p and it came off very easily and seeing as you photographed the Nitecore I just tried that with exactly the same result. Laser engraving doesn't need to be done all the way through the anodisation to be effective so there may still be some left in the engraved areas. The colour of the conversion depends on the anodisation on the light in the first place, hence the difference between torches as a result of different alloys of metal, therefore differing anodisation.

It would appear that laser engraving can be done with either a CO2 or Nd:YAG laser (different IR wavelengths); the former being pulsed and the latter running in CW and apparently these also produce different results.

Ultimately the problem is cosmetic and as such discussion topics have come up before various opinions have been provided, the general concensus being that people would rather have slightly less than perfect engraving on a torch than sacrifice quality in something affecting function, or price. Your priorities may of course vary but once a light has been used and then dropped a couple of times (well, at least in my experience) the exact colour of the engraving becomes a bit of a moot point.

I hope you find a satisfactory solution.

Andrew

Re: Dereelight DBS V2 Poor Engraving or Corrosion Concern

Howdy varuscelli,
If you don't mind, I'd like to add my opinion on this subject. First, I think you have been very even handed with your approach here, and that is to be commended. It's all to easy to start calling things "junk" when a problem occurs. I'm glad you resisted that temptation.

One of the issues we face when we buy products over the internet, sight unseen, is that we don't get to handle the actual item until we've paid for it and then waited patiently for it to arrive. If there turn out to be issues, then we have to make a decision whether it is important enough to warrant the time and effort, not to mention the waiting, involved in returning the item for exchange or refund.

For me the decision would be easy. I would ask for a replacement. Personally, I don't think this should have left the factory, and I think it is important as consumers that we set the level for what we feel is acceptable. Yes, it's probably only cosmetic, but it still affects the resale value.... which would be far less for a light that looked like that than one that was cosmetically new.

This is not an inexpensive light, and Dereelight has always promoted themselves as being a first rate outfit..... a claim which has been shown to be true by the many satisfied customers here on CPF, so I would think there would be no issue if you decided that you wanted a replacement as this certainly does not seem to be up to their usually high standards.

So, there is no right or wrong here....... it's only a matter of what is important to YOU. Is it worth the cost and time required for shipping it back and then waiting for a new light to be shipped out? If you're like most of us here on CPF, then you probably have a few other lights to fill the void while this one is in transit.

But, like many other practical folks have mentioned..... it does appear to be only cosmetic.... and probably won't affect the functioning of the light. However, the fact that you took the time to do such nice closeup photos (very nice BTW) and start a thread seems to imply that it does bother you.... so go ahead and send Dereelight an e-mail, make them aware of the situation, and see if they can help to resolve it for you.