surefire 6P, does it throw > my TK11

Im looking to buy my next light and im wanting an incan for colour rendition, i dont have any incans apart from my mag 2D relic sitting in the corner looking sorry for itself.

What im wanting to know is will a stock 6P be brighter and throw further than my TK11.

Or if there is any other torch to go for in this price range (£30-£60)

Well the Tk11 is rated at 225 lumen and the stock 6P is rated at 60 lumen. Fenix uses at the LED lumen while Surefire uses minimal out the front lumen. That would make 100 Fenix lumen less then 100 Surefire lumen but a over 3x difference in output in favor of the Fenix makes it still a good bit brighter then the 6P stock.

As for throw, 3400 lux for the Surefire and 7000 lux for the TK10, the TK11 should have more throw then the TK10 due to the smooth reflector.

But some like a 6P with a good drop-in over the T1/TK10/TK11.

Put the 2D to good use, make a Hotwire light.

Gunner12 said:

Well the Tk11 is rated at 225 lumen and the stock 6P is rated at 60 lumen. Fenix uses at the LED lumen while Surefire uses minimal out the front lumen.

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What about those 225 torch lumen tests of the T1?

I've seen those too. Fenix seems to have changed their lumen rating system, at least for the T series.

Just wanted to show that those(out thee front vs at the LED) don't matter much when you have such a big difference.

The low mode of the T1/TK10/TK11 seems to be less then 60 lumen though.

FWIW, Both my DX11836 and DX6090 modules out-throw my stock P60 incan, by a significant amount.

A more fair comparison would be a Malkoff M60 in a 6P host, or a Lumens Factory HO-9 with two RCR123a's. I own both an M60 and an HO-9 but I don't own a TK11 to compare. But for the record, both throw quite well.

You mentioned in the OP that you wanted to stay incan. Maybe you should look into a 9P or 6P with extender/Detonator to run a P91 lamp off three cells. This will give you a blistering 200lm out the front which will blow the Fenix's away. Not to mention the many options available for the P series lights. You could even use the 6P/9P with a KT1/KT2 Turbo Head for some MONSTER throw.

I was once an LED only guy but I've since switched to almost all incan for personal use. The warmer color is much better in my opinion.

For the 6P incandescent vs. TK11 comparison in terms of color rendition, output and throw, generic808 seems to be spot on. The incandescent will have better color rendition (particularly for eyes that are accustomed to sunlight), but the TK11 will have significantly better throw and output than the stock 6P (i.e., with P60 lamp assembly).

If color rendition is your top priority, then there shouldn't be anything holding you back from getting the 6P. Then, for output, the P61 will give you (I think) pretty close to the same perceived brightness as the TK11. The TK11 probably technically puts out more lumens than the P61 lamp, but I'd doubt your eye would detect much of a difference. My eye can't see much of one between my P61 and my Malkoff M60.

Throw, however, is an interesting thing. With the P61, you have a lot of light to put out the front of the lamp, which means you need more filament to burn. But more filament means a bigger area/volume of a light source. As such, it won't focus as perfectly as the smaller filament of the P60 lamp. The net result of this is that the P61 gives you a wide, very bright hotspot that throws a decent amount, whereas the P60 throws a bit further, but is dimmer. At "extreme" distances I've found the P60 to light things up better than the P61, but at those distances you're better off with a light with a huge/deep reflector (e.g., C or D Mag, DBS, Tiablo A9). As for a comparison in throw between the P60/P61 and the TK11, I couldn't say, as I haven't handled the TK11. I'd expect it to throw noticeably farther than the P60/P61, but probably not by enough to put it in the same class as the DBS et al.

In the end, I'd probably consider the color rendition and runtime to be the primary deciding factors. If you really need/want the color rendition, and are fine with (a lot) less runtime, go with the P60/P61. If runtime is pretty important too, or even more important, then you may want to stick with the TK11.

Also, as generic808 suggested, the 9P and/or KT1/KT2 turbohead are also options to consider. From what I've heard, the P91 lamp option for the 9P will be significantly brighter than the TK11 (haven't heard much about it's throw, though). The turbohead will give you very competitive throw, but at a much higher cost.

In your place, I'd probably get the 9P, and P91 lamp, so as to at least have the option of super output.

C3 w/KT2 is another option I forgot to mention. This set-up is all HA :naughty:



Or the new Surefire M7 next to an E1L

runtime is pretty important to me so going with a 6P and a P61 lamp wouldnt be suitable or cost worthy either, can i use rechargeables with this bulb or any other bulb upgrades for 6P or the 9P which can be used with rechargeables with, any kind or cells would do i have a W139 charger.

i like the idea of a 9P and a P91 lamp now, what is the runtime of this setup, can i use rechargeables with any incan bulbs or upgrade bulbs, i think im wanting to stick with the 6/9P

Also i know bulbs blow eventually but how many hours can i get out one bulb

Yes, I use 2x 17500 rechargeables with my own 9P's and C3's, giving me about 8.4-8.6V. If you're going with the 6P and rechargeables, you're pretty much stuck with a single 17670 unless you bore out the body to 18mm, in which case you would be able to use a single 18650 cell. Keep in mind that with a single 17670 you're only going to get about 4.2-4.3V though.

Or, you could always use a P90/P91 bulb in a 6P body and run 2x RCR123 rechargeables. There are a TON of options out there and that's why I would suggest the Surefire over the Fenix. You can always upgrade or configure your light exactly how you want it. With the Fenix you're pretty much stuck with what you bought :ironic:

Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti-Fenix. Although my collection consists of way too many Surefire's, I do have a Fenix T1 which I find myself reaching for quite often. It's my throw around beater light which serves me well. But I feel for you first light, a 6P/9P will be the best choice. Not only is it a great light which will last a lifetime, but it's so versatile and can be upgraded very easily. And trust me, you'll want to keep upgrading.

Eric

i second ROPing that mag

generic808 said:

I use 2x 17500 … giving me about 8.4-8.6V... [snip] … with a single 17670 you're only going to get about 4.2-4.3V.

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You should NEVER charge a Li-Ion cell to >4.20V. 4.3V is dangerous and will drastically shorten the life of the cell.

generic808 said:

Or, you could always use a P90/P91 bulb in a 6P body and run 2x RCR123 rechargeables.

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The P91 draws ~2.5A which is FAR too much for RCR123 Li-Ions. Even the P90, which draws 1.3A, is pushing the limit. The capacity of a RCR123 under load is ~600mAh (ignore any manufacturer's claims to a higher capacity) so the maximum constant current should be limited to 1.2A.

I don't have a TK11, but the Surefire 6P is a very useful light for incan or LED. I use mine with a Malkoff M60, which has the same throw as the stock P60 lamp but with a bigger hotspot and a wider corona. (Malkoff uses warm tint bins, too.)

I prefer the Z59 (clicky) tailcap. If you want that, it might be better to get the 6P Defender, which has the clicky tailcap as stock.

So is a malkoff m60 an LED upgrade seeing as you said it has a warmer tint, can someone put a link to a store i can purchase surefire upgrades, preferrably in UK.

and i dont know what a rop is or a hotwire can some please explain:shrug:

So what bulbs can use rechargeables with, is there a sticky somewhere on this forum

Here's a link to the Malkoff homepage:

http://www.malkoffdevices.com/

The ROP is a mod of a MagLite, usually a 2S I believe, that replaces the stock bulb with a higher power one, and also a new glass, reflector and battery pack (6AA > 2D, i.e. 6AA in a 2D size package).

A hotwire is simply any mod done to a standard torch that involves replacing the stock bulb with something brighter.

Hope that helps .

EDIT: Here's two links to read about using rechargeables with incan blbs and LEDs:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/201375
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/161536

thanks digi dave for those links.:thumbsup:

i had no idea those malkoff drop ins were so expenive, turns out my £45 torch woul end up costing me nearly double, i think ill just stick to a stock 6P for a while and see how i get on, probably wont stay stock for long:naughty:

If you can still find them around somewhere--SRTH! ! !

abarth_1200 said:

thanks digi dave for those links.:thumbsup:

i had no idea those malkoff drop ins were so expenive, turns out my £45 torch woul end up costing me nearly double, i think ill just stick to a stock 6P for a while and see how i get on, probably wont stay stock for long:naughty:

Click to expand...

They're worth it though. I bought a few extras for friends in the local PDs to use in their 6p's. They're that good.

As for Hotwire and the ROP.

A Hotwire is usually a higher powered Maglite Incandescent mod which runs a bulb in the Maglite at a higher voltage then it was rated for with the right batteries. This gives more output from the bulb but also decreases bulb life(battery life is also much chorter then the normal Maglite). I'm not really sure how to describe it exctally. There are many different kinds o Maglite Hotwires.

The ROP is one of these hotwires. It stands for Roar of Pelican because it uses a Pelican Big D bulb. The bulb is rated at 6v but the ROP mod uses either 6 NiMh batteries ot 2 Li-ion batteries to over drive the bulb to 7.2-8.4v. This gives over 1000 bulb lumen with the ROP high and 500 or more bulb lumen with the ROP low.

With your 2D, you can either use a 6 AA to 2D adaptor and get up to 30 minutes of runtime with the ROP high and about an hour with the ROP low. With 2 Li-ion D batteries you can get around 50 minutes of runtimw with the ROP high and about double for the low. The parts needed are the batteries, Metal reflector, glass window(lens), and the ROP bulbs(I don't think I forgot anything).

The parts either swap out or drop right in. Pretty simple to do.

Look in the Incan section or search for more info.