Why don't Surefire mention what LEDs they use?

Albinoni

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I've been looking at the Surefire and I am really quite surprised to see that Surefire does not even mention what type of LED they use in their torches, which to me is quite surprising. Eg I was looking at the E1B and cannot seem to locate what type of LED this torch if not their other LED flashlights use. If other manufacturers such as Fenix, JetBeam and Nitecore, than why not surefire
 
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djblank87

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Re: Why doesnt Surefire

I've been looking at the Surefire and I am really quite surprised to see that Surefire does not even mention what type of LED they use in their torches, which to me is quite surprising. Eg I was looking at the E1B and cannot seem to locate what type of LED this torch if not their other LED flashlights use. If other manufacturers such as Fenix, JetBeam and Nitecore, than why not surefire

The use Seoul semi-conductors in most of there prodcuts last time I check.
 

mdocod

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Re: Why doesnt Surefire

I think it has a lot to do with brand image. SureFire is BIG in the scheme of flashlights, but the majority of professionals who use a SureFire are not "flashlight geeks" like us. I can almost guarantee that 90% or more of the users of a SureFire have no idea what a cree or a seoul or luxeon eve are, or where they come from. "Clogging" up the "features" chart with meaningless "buzz" words to the lay-person is not what SureFire is trying to be about.

Another reason may be that by listing the LED type used, it sort of takes "away" from what the SureFire owners is expecting- IE: a flashlight made by surefire. If they start listing off another brand that has something to do with what makes their flashlight work, then it may seem to move some of the "credit" away from SureFire.

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Many of the alternatives we have come to know and love around here often list the type of LED used because they are building that product with a certain market in mind, often, that market is flashlight enthusiasts. We may appreciate markings that indicate which LED is in the package, the lay-person may simply be confused by it :)

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This is just my thoughts, I could be totally way wrong on this.

Eric
 

RyanA

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Re: Why doesnt Surefire

Some are seoul some are cree, the new Kx heads are cree. I think the p60Ls are seoul?:thinking: Correct me if I'm wrong. I think a few of the older torches are still using luxeons.
 
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Albinoni

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Re: Why doesnt Surefire

Ok so basically what your saying is Surefire make their torches and want people to know when you buy a Syrefire your buying a quality torch and thats what you pay for, for get about the Ins and Outs eg what LED we use, what brand of battery, brand of reflector etc etc. Just buy it and be happy with it, simple as that.
 

Patriot

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Re: Why doesnt Surefire

The Seoul LEDs in Surefires are news to me. I thought that they had an exclusive partnership with Cree and previous to that Luxeon.

mdocod already summed up why SF doesn't routinely list the LED type in their specs. Basically they don't need to. Overall it would subtract to the perceived value of the majority of owners. We're just a small fringe of flashlight owners who actually care. :)
 

RyanA

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Re: Why doesnt Surefire

Basically. It promotes confidence in the brand, not the individual emitters, drivers, switches etc. They'd probably put off most non-flashaholics with that stuff. Not that it's bad. It's easier just to tell most non-enthusiasts that they cant go wrong with a surefire. On the other end of the spectrum most custom sites like tnc or sandwich shoppe are way over the heads of casual users. Each has a specific target audience.
 

tebore

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Re: Why doesnt Surefire

AFAIK Surefire hasn't use any SSC LEDs in their production products.

The P7 is the only LED seen to be used. However the Optimus and Invictus aren't out yet and with the advent of the MC-E they might still be using Cree exclusively.

It a large number of government contracts they require vendors to have a certain % of the product be using domestic parts. Or the significant parts have to be domestic.
 

alantch

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Re: Why doesnt Surefire

AFAIK Surefire hasn't use any SSC LEDs in their production products.

The P7 is the only LED seen to be used. However the Optimus and Invictus aren't out yet and with the advent of the MC-E they might still be using Cree exclusively.

It a large number of government contracts they require vendors to have a certain % of the product be using domestic parts. Or the significant parts have to be domestic.

SF does use SSC LEDs in their lights that make use of a reflector. Good example are the P60L module and the new KL5A head. Crees are used where TIR optics are deployed like the E2DL, E1B and the KX heads to name a few.
 

Outdoors Fanatic

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Re: Why doesnt Surefire

I've been looking at the Surefire and I am really quite surprised to see that Surefire does not even mention what type of LED they use in their torches, which to me is quite surprising. Eg I was looking at the E1B and cannot seem to locate what type of LED this torch if not their other LED flashlights use. If other manufacturers such as Fenix, JetBeam and Nitecore, than why not surefire
Because they don't need to? SureFire already has enough reputation on its own, they don't need to use LED name brands for credibility/marketing purposes.
 

Outdoors Fanatic

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Re: Why doesnt Surefire

The Seoul LEDs in Surefires are news to me. I thought that they had an exclusive partnership with Cree and previous to that Luxeon.

mdocod already summed up why SF doesn't routinely list the LED type in their specs. Basically they don't need to. Overall it would subtract to the perceived value of the majority of owners. We're just a small fringe of flashlight owners who actually care. :)
Where have you been in the last two years? SureFire's partnership with Seoul Semiconductor happened much earlier than with Cree.
 

Aussie Cheese

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Luxeon I - old old L1, KL1(Gen1), KL3(Gen1)
Luxeon III - KL1(Gen2+), KL3(Gen2+), K2
Luxeon V - L2, U2, KL4, KL5, KL6, KL7
Cree XR-E (Q5?) - KXx, L1, E1B, E2DL, U2A
SSC P4 -P60L, KL5A, T1, (T1A?)

anything else?

:wave:
 
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gallagho

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+1 Brand protection. If there is a problem with a specific LED manufacturer Surefire can just walk away, they have a reputation to protect.

Owen
 

Illum

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it could be a differ in priority. Surefire markets their lights in a semi-multidimensional method thats contrary to a few other companies. I'm inclined to think surefire does not think of LED name to have any importance but instead choose to emphasize the light as a whole. LED is a diode, an element thats no more important then the schottky or the resistor on the circuit board, where either fails would compromise the entire light. SSC or CREE in this case would be like advertising the caps on the driver to be panasonic or nichicon...does anyone care? not really:nana:

we're so used to reading LED names and associating bin numbers that we sometimes fail to notice the big picture...its like taking microeconomics before you take macroeconomics....:ohgeez:
 

vb14

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I've been looking at the Surefire and I am really quite surprised to see that Surefire does not even mention what type of LED they use in their torches, which to me is quite surprising. Eg I was looking at the E1B and cannot seem to locate what type of LED this torch if not their other LED flashlights use. If other manufacturers such as Fenix, JetBeam and Nitecore, than why not surefire

Because the value of surefire flashlights is greater than the sum of its parts.
 

OceanView

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Because the value of surefire flashlights is greater than the sum of its parts.
I think this is the simplest, most elegant answer to the question. Most people buy a Surefire because it's a Surefire!. They don't care what's inside.

Only a tiny, tiny fraction of users care what the actual emitter is. People care about output, and Surefire lists honest lumens, but no one cares about the emitter. Just like few consumers care what kind of CPU is running in their computers as long as it seems to run fast. You don't want people getting too attached to the components, otherwise they complain if you make a change or even switch to a competitor that uses what they want. For years, Apple touted using the PowerPC chips and when they went to Intel CPU's, it was a big deal. Surefire can switch emitter companies and no one would really care.
 
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RWT1405

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Then, I guess when I buy a vehicle, I shouldn't ask (or know) about the engine? When I buy a gun, I shouldn't ask what caliber it is? When I go out to eat, I shouldn't know what they are serving, I should just "take what they give me"?

I have many SF's, so I'm not a SF hater, but I DO think that they should tell me what's inside what I buy (or am interested in buying).

I also don't like their NEW use of FALSE/misleading run times with the G/P series. My .02 FWIW
 

abarth_1200

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That is a good point, i would like to know what i am buying, they should have a sister company set up to people who want to know and people who just want the brand.

I also agree with Illum_the_nation, some people dont care how it works or whats in it they just know it works.

Tricky i must admit, i have no sides on this one
 
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