Current trends in modern LED flashlights: an open discussion

Ever since I started looking for a good flashlight - I couldn't believe the leaps in technology that LED flashlights have gone through. What I have noticed is the current "trends" that flashlight makers go through: ie what was "hot" yesterday is out of style today . I was wondering if people could chime in about 1) new trends in flashlights and 2) Manufacturers that fastest in adaption of these trends and new technologies (bulbs/ emitters).

1)
For example trends that I see emerging is:
-Move away from 123 battery towards 18650's in flashlights
-moving away from the useless SOS/ Strobe modes (opinion : what a useless gimmick!)

2)
Manufacturers:
Wolf-eyes (what a cheesy name though) seem pretty aggressive

1) ask someone who was found while using these "silly" modes, while being lost
(personal view: they dont come in my way as long as I dont need them, so ... why not?)

2) Wolf Eyes is a just follower; copied SureFires to get into market but a bit quicker with the new (actual) led (and give them more power, something SF does not do)
mass production: quickest to react on new technology is (and was) Fenix. They really stomped the market of led lights and still are on their way
(but move away from their 1st buyers, with their silly tactical models. Forget about the ppl that bought their early lights. Probably an error ... on the long run)

yellow said:

1) ask someone who was found while using these "silly" modes, while being lost
(personal view: they dont come in my way as long as I dont need them, so ... why not?)

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Show someone to me who's been found because of the blinking SOS mode of a flashlight and I'll believe you.

I think those modes are better suited for toys. Same with flat regulation that just goes black at the end.

They seem to be using variable output levels set by the user instead of multimode with low medium high. This has been done for a while but now it is much more common.

Highest output doesn't seem like that much of a priority anymore.

Some thought about ease of upgrade ability.

I`m seeing more quality entries in the `big box consumer` market.

Hi LukeA, I can tell you for me (anyway), that I have used the strobe function, on my Fenix P3D's, more then a few times (at work), to get the "attention" of other in-coming units. After the fact, the "others" have said that the strobe was very noticeable, even over the ambient light (street lights, house lights, etc.).

So, while I don't NEED the strobe, I have found that it can be of use, at times, now the S.O.S. I have not found a use for (yet anyway! LOL). So I hope that helps answer your question a bit LukeA. My .02 FWIW YMMV

CR123A=2AA in 1/3 the length plus they are lithiums with 10 year shelf life. Unfortunately the newer LEDs (SSC-P7 and Cree MCE) require 4X the power of previous LEDs making a bigger battery necessary and the 18650 is readily available. (Actually the 18650 do not have the power to power the LEDs for 2 hours, the minimum for a duty light, so expect even bigger batteries to be used.)

There is minimal reduction of strobe & SOS modes. When the SSC-P7 lights first came out they were 1 & 5 modes joined soon after by the 2 mode. The latest is a 8 mode of which 5 are various kinds of strobe. Yuk.
Some CPF members use the strobe mode to alert oncoming traffic they are crossing dark intersections. Just hope you do not need to use SOS other than at an Al Gore concert.

Quickest to react on new technology was Fenix. They are falling behind this time around.
Order of companies producing/announcing SSC-P7 torches.
MTE,
Aurora,
Kai/DX no name,
Elektrolumens,
Trustfire,
Wolf-eyes;
Dereelight built a prototype, decided not to pursue it at this time;
Surefire announced the UB2,
Battery Junction is taking pre-orders for the Lumapower,
Malkoff has anounced or has shipped P7 drop ins.
Not a peep from Fenix.

Everybody in the far east used to copy Fenix. Then Fenix patented their ideas. Now everybody is going ahead without waiting for Fenix.

One of the trends that I have observed is that the price is coming down for very well built flashlights from oversea and domestic manufactures. Reminds me of how the price point came down in PC's.

The current trends that I am seeing is a move to AA batts away from CR123. As much as I love CR123 shelf-life, resistence to cold, and the general exclusiveness of them, they are just not required to power LEDs with regulation.

Regulation in common / retail lights. Good to see regulation in some form ensuring that there is somewhat constant brightness ensured in $20 wal mart lights.

I think you will see a race to "dimness" as the manufacturers go searching for an ultra-low setting to compiment their 180 lumen superLEDS 1AA lights. Expect to see multiple direct driven 3mm LEDs cast in resin in the bezel edge.

zband said:

For example trends that I see emerging is:
-Move away from 123 battery towards 18650's in flashlights

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Doubt it very much, the only 18650 lights I see are those catered specifically to a niche market like some people on CPF. None of the major manufactures has adopted it and it's not even close to avaliable to public.

yellow said:

1) ask someone who was found while using these "silly" modes, while being lost
(personal view: they dont come in my way as long as I dont need them, so ... why not?)

2) Wolf Eyes is a just follower; copied SureFires to get into market but a bit quicker with the new (actual) led (and give them more power, something SF does not do)
mass production: quickest to react on new technology is (and was) Fenix. They really stomped the market of led lights and still are on their way
(but move away from their 1st buyers, with their silly tactical models. Forget about the ppl that bought their early lights. Probably an error ... on the long run)

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I wouldn't call WE a follower really. Yes someone always has to be "the first" to do something, but I'm looking at WE's current lineup and don't see much similarity to surefire's save for high quality aluminum bodies. http://www.wolf-eyes.com/product/Storm.html I see nothing at all like this in anyone elses stable for example?

jzmtl said:

Doubt it very much, the only 18650 lights I see are those catered specifically to a niche market like some people on CPF. None of the major manufactures has adopted it and it's not even close to avaliable to public.

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They aren't making specific 18650 lights. What they are doing are creating drivers that can handle 3V to 8.4v and a tube that can take either 1 18650,17670 or 2xCR123 and the rarer 2xRCR123. So even if you're not a rechargeable guy you can still use 2x123. Kinda likethe first gen U2 they had the ability to take 18650s with the primary market of using 2x123.

The P7 LED is a tricky LED to work with. There's a good reason why Fenix is staying away from them. The Cree Q5 is more efficient the only reason to use a P7 is get crazy brightness in a small package. But a small package won't have the heatsinking needed. Underdriving it won't beat any recent Cree Bins. The parallel design is another issue. The second problem is not all the dies light up evenly, even when you think it is 2 or 1 of the dies are brighter just so slightly.

interesting thread.

1. Re: CR123's: I don't think the shelf life of the lithium batteries is all that relevant in a high quality light ( say over $50.00 ). Except for maybe rescue teams and light nuts, most people aren't going to spend that much on a light unless they plan on using it ALOT. Don't forget that the average consumer is satisfied with an $8 light, and thinks a $20 Mag is top of the line. Anyone with that expectation level isn't about to buy and use a good CR123 light and let it sit for 10 years.


2. Companies that are trying to survive by offereing the latest LED technology are doomed to failure, or at least extreme difficulty. The companies that try to stand out with build quality, customer service, and reliability will do better. If using the latest LED is all you have to offer, there will always be some new upstart that can match your product, and if they get into the game later than you, they will be better because technology has advanced and is on their side. I don't like that Inova's lineup changes so much, and that the 2008 lights are different than the 2007s. I want a light that a company is going to be marketing for a while.

3. I had always assumed that the strobes on lights were just there so the manufacturer could claim an insanely long run time. "100 Lumens and lasts for 72 hours !!!" but they just don't tell you the 72 hours is on slow, dim strobe mode.

GPB said:

interesting thread.




2. Companies that are trying to survive by offereing the latest LED technology are doomed to failure, or at least extreme difficulty. The companies that try to stand out with build quality, customer service, and reliability will do better. If using the latest LED is all you have to offer, there will always be some new upstart that can match your product, and if they get into the game later than you, they will be better because technology has advanced and is on their side. I don't like that Inova's lineup changes so much, and that the 2008 lights are different than the 2007s. I want a light that a company is going to be marketing for a while.

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I have to disagree. LEDs are developing fast, on some levels comparable to the computer chip. People are going to be attracted "to the most power light" even though it may not be a good value. Compare it to a computer CPU: is 2 Ghz really going to noticeable faster than 1.8 ghz? But people are going to by the faster model despite the fact that they dont really need all that power for bragging rights , to show off etc- kinda like buying the most "bad-***" light! do I really need all that power no, but is it cool to have? yes. I think lots of people on CPF will agree with me.

That being said, a company that has great CS and build quality but is selling older LED's is IMO Doomed. Would you buy a a computer that has a Pentium II chip in it that has fine workmanship and great CS - of course not. Thats why I asked about who are these aggressive companies that sell cutting edge stuff because they are going to be the leaders in sales. Sure there will be other start up companies that will try to also sell the same (if not newer tech) but hey thats corporate competition which drives prices down and put newer tech in our pockets.

tebore said:

They aren't making specific 18650 lights. What they are doing are creating drivers that can handle 3V to 8.4v and a tube that can take either 1 18650,17670 or 2xCR123 and the rarer 2xRCR123. So even if you're not a rechargeable guy you can still use 2x123. Kinda likethe first gen U2 they had the ability to take 18650s with the primary market of using 2x123.

The P7 LED is a tricky LED to work with. There's a good reason why Fenix is staying away from them. The Cree Q5 is more efficient the only reason to use a P7 is get crazy brightness in a small package. But a small package won't have the heatsinking needed. Underdriving it won't beat any recent Cree Bins. The parallel design is another issue. The second problem is not all the dies light up evenly, even when you think it is 2 or 1 of the dies are brighter just so slightly.

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You are still thinking with the cpf mindset, which is niche market these companies are catering to. Majority of people outside CPF probably have never heard of 18650 before, let along use it. For majority of the market, make the tube big enough means people will complain about battery rattle, and why make a buck/boost circuit when either a buck or boost will be perfectly fine for 99% of the customers? So outside CPF there is no trend of moving away from 123a and toward 18650.

Besides most people don't like to bother with rechargeables, the eneloop in costco aren't moving while the 48xAA alkaline bricks are flying off the shelf.

Companies that rush products with the latest technology into the marketplace usually do so without proper testing or putting QC in place. The result is lots of DOA products or lights that die soon after arrival.
MTE, Aurora, even DX/Kai no name beat Wolf-eyes by 2 months with SSC-P7 torches. Wolf-eyes spent 2 months testing their product before releasing them and people are willing to pay $180 instead of $50. Surefire is taking even longer with the UB2 despite taking the 1st few months of SSC-P7 production.
Fenix L0D Q4 is still recommended over the R2 Buckle Light.
Jetbeam's original CLE was very impressive until it became apparent there was a 40% failure rate! Despite instituting a new rigorous QA program and having their torches undergo a 2nd QC by an outside company Jetbeam is still avoided by many members.
Mag and Dorcy even Energizer and Garrity is outselling Fenix, Wolf-eyes, Lumapower, Tiablo, Jetbeam, Nitecore put together by a wide margin.

There was a rule of not buying v1.0 of anything in the computer field to avoid bugs. Wait till v2.1 at least. Same should be applied to flashlights.

While I would very much like a global move from 123s to 18650s, I don't think it's a current trend. A few EDC 18650 lights have come out because there are some who want/need them; other than that, 18650s are seeing more use because it's hard to properly drive a P7 or cree quad-die with 123s.

zband said:

That being said, a company that has great CS and build quality but is selling older LED's is IMO Doomed. Would you buy a a computer that has a Pentium II chip in it that has fine workmanship and great CS - of course not. .

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Isn't that what Mag and Surefire are doing ? They are selling very well and will probably continue to do so. I don't think the computer analogy is applicable, because both need and capability are constantly increasing in the computer world. Whatever computer you have right now will not have enough "ooomph" to run the software that will be available in the future, so customers actually do need more capability. A flashlight customers need tomorrow won't be any different than today. Darkness isn't getting darker.

Surefire's 6P/G2 are practically ancient, and yet the still sell well, and did get the LED upgrade not too long ago. However, the 6PL/G2L isn't the latest and greatest emitter, but its a great light. I like knowing that I am buying a light that will be marketed for a while. When you look at the best selling cars ( Honda Accord, Toyota Camry, Ford Taurus ) they aren't the flashy cutting edge high tech cars that companies offer. In fact those cars aren't really exceptional at anything, except moving people from point A to point B. Its my opinion that the sucessful light companies will be the Honda's and Toyotas of the light world, not the Maserati's and Ferrari's

A trend I see is sophisticated clickie interfaces, moving beyond from the traditional plastic pen clickies to metal buttons that are smarter. Besides the advantage of less noise, they are also potentially more reliable and more versatile.

GPB said:

Isn't that what Mag and Surefire are doing ? They are selling very well and will probably continue to do so. I don't think the computer analogy is applicable, because both need and capability are constantly increasing in the computer world. Whatever computer you have right now will not have enough "ooomph" to run the software that will be available in the future, so customers actually do need more capability. A flashlight customers need tomorrow won't be any different than today. Darkness isn't getting darker.

Surefire's 6P/G2 are practically ancient, and yet the still sell well, and did get the LED upgrade not too long ago. However, the 6PL/G2L isn't the latest and greatest emitter, but its a great light. I like knowing that I am buying a light that will be marketed for a while. When you look at the best selling cars ( Honda Accord, Toyota Camry, Ford Taurus ) they aren't the flashy cutting edge high tech cars that companies offer. In fact those cars aren't really exceptional at anything, except moving people from point A to point B. Its my opinion that the sucessful light companies will be the Honda's and Toyotas of the light world, not the Maserati's and Ferrari's

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GPB
My reference to the people buying these lights are us, not joe six pack. We are the ones always "looking for the next smaller, brighter light". Just glance in the LED section of the forum on any given day to see topics about the newest, brightest light. By the way Camry and Accords work, just like the incandescent flashlights in Walmart, but I dont think any of us would want one of those. We want the Ferrari of lights! One last fact - many of the high end race cars bring with them technology that eventually gets adopted for use in the Accords and Camry's, just like some of the tech in CPF member's lights today will eventually make its way to joe six packs light in 5 years.

LED-holic: yes I agree I should add that to the list, programable UI.

I am surprised about responses about the Fenix about being aggressive in new tech... I am definitely going to keep an eye on the companies suggested above.