the speech we would all like to hear.

WOULD IT NOT BE GREAT TO TURN ON THE OLE' TV TONIGHT AND SEE OLE' G.W. BUSH GIVE THE FOLLOWING SPEECH.....

My fellow Americans:

As you all know, the defeat of Iraq's regime has been completed. The discovery and destruction of all weapons of mass destruction have been covered thoroughly in the press. An new Iraqi government has been established and appears to be stable.

Our mission in Iraq is complete.

This morning I gave the order for a complete removal of all American forces from Iraq. This action will be complete within 30 days.

It is now time to begin the reckoning.

Before me, I have two lists. One list contains the names of countries which have stood by our side during the Iraq conflict. This list is short. The United Kingdom, Spain, Bulgaria, Australia, and Poland are some of the countries listed there.

The other list contains everyone not on the first list. Most of the world's nations are on that list. My press secretary will be distributing copies of both lists later this evening.

Let me start by saying that effective immediately, foreign aid to those nations on List 2 ceases immediately and indefinitely. The money saved during the first year alone will pretty much pay for the costs of the Iraqi war.

The American people are no longer going to pour money into third world hell-holes and watch those government leaders grow fat on corruption.

Need help with a famine? Wrestling with an epidemic? Call France.

In the future, together with Congress, I will work to redirect this money toward solving the vexing social problems we still have at home.

On that note, a word to terrorist organizations. Screw with us and we will hunt you down and eliminate you and all your friends from the face of the earth. Thirsting for a gutsy country to terrorize? Try France, or maybe China.

Regarding the nation of Israel, I have this to say. It seems like everybody has forgotten what happened to European Jewry during the 1930s and World War II. Our nation will never permit the destruction of Israel. No way, Jose. Nevertheless, to Israel and the Palestinian Authority. Yo, boys. Work out a peace deal now. Just note that Camp David is closed. Maybe all of you can go to Russia for negotiations. They have some great palaces there. Big tables, too.

I'm ordering the immediate severing of diplomatic relations with France, Germany, and Russia. Thanks for all your help, comrades. We are retiring from NATO as well. Bon chance, mes amis.

I have instructed the Mayor of New York City to begin towing the many UN diplomatic vehicles located in Manhattan with more than two unpaid tickets to sites where those vehicles will be stripped, shredded and crushed. I don't care about whatever treaty pertains to this. Pay your tickets tomorrow or watch your precious Benzes, Beamers, and limos be turned over to some of the finest chop shops in the world. I love New York.

A special note to our neighbors. Canada is on List 2. Since we are going to be seeing a lot more of each other, you folks might want to try not pissing us off for a change. Mexico is also on List 2. President Fox and his entire corrupt government really need an attitude adjustment. I have a couple extra tank and infantry divisions sitting around. Guess where I'm gonna put 'em? Yep, border security. So start doing something with your oil. Oh, by the way, the United States is abrogating the NAFTA treaty---starting now.

It is time for America to focus on its own welfare and its own citizens. Some will accuse us of isolationism.

I answer them be saying darn tootin'. Nearly a century of trying to help folks live a decent life around the world has only earned us the undying enmity of just about everyone on the planet.

It is time to eliminate hunger in America. It is time to eliminate homelessness in America. It is time to eliminate World Cup soccer from America.

To the nations on List 1, a final thought. Thanks guys. We owe you.

To the nations on List 2, a final thought. Drop dead.

God bless America.

Thank you and good night.

* For those who fought for it, Freedom has a price the Protected will never know. *

May the servant that the people place in our executive position never be granted the dictatorial authority you imagine, but even more so, may the people never forget that they themselves are the rulers of their country. I might add, that should such a servant ever demonstrate that they have forgotten this subservient arrangement that has been orchestrated since the founding of the nation, and that we permit such extreme executive decision only temporarily in emergency situations, may the checks and balances safeguards built into our system disable that public servant to the point that his ability to even defecate will be so restricted that he'll suffer a bout of constant constipation.

To our international community that enjoys these forums, I must apologize for some of my fellow countrymen. The freedom of speech which we enjoy is so extensive that you will often times hear amongst all the other opinions extreme words of pure ......... from our ..... . Remember that these words from some of our most vocal, are spoken here simply because they're unable to find willing listeners, or are simply dismissed in the more effective avenues. Here their ramblings hold no more merit than the equally important bits of wit scrawled on restroom walls.

snakebite /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif i've thought this for years.

empath, i find the WORDS in your post sewage

**edited at the request of diesel dave**

[ QUOTE ]
Empath said:
To our international community that enjoys these forums, I must apologize for some of my fellow countrymen. The freedom of speech which we enjoy is so extensive that you will often times hear amongst all the other opinions extreme words of pure stupidity from our fools. Remember

[/ QUOTE ]

Pure stupidity? I'd expect better from someone with a moderator title. Perhaps I shouldn't.

Snakebite's a bit on the edge, for sure, but he's echoing a sentiment felt by many in this country.

Frankly, Empath, all the socialistic crap that you've been spewing is more annoying to me than any of the far right stuff I've seen. At least I can relate to the anger and frustration of people concerned with the current terrorism noise, and certainly with the attitude of most of the UN. I find this distasteful coming from a fellow American, much more so than someone venting their anger at what are less than friendly nations in the first place.

tkl, I strongly recommend an edit.

Wow! Thermal runaway on this thread! George W. and crew scare the heck out of me due to issues mentioned in Empaths FIRST paragraph.

However, I find Snakebite's "Address" refreshing in its candor and underlying poignancy. Yeah, like anyone really thinks Bush would actually give such a speech. I find Empath's second paragraph deserving of tkl's contempt; unless of course empath is speaking of himself. He He.

Empath, please don't ever apologize for me. If I want a spokesman, I'll appoint one. If I see call for apology, I can make it myself.

Perhaps we are all suffering from delusions of adequacy and knowledge. Or maybe it's just me.

Maybe we should all lighten up a bit. You know, "Juck 'em if they can't take a foke". And to our international members and viewers: We haven't been out of the trees any longer than you but we live in a playground where we can try out all kinds of stuff and experiment with different ideas. Some work better than others. It may seem that some of us don't know what to do with freedom nor do we appreciate its value or cost. Now if you were to try to take it away.........

- Don

PS. My comments above were a "shot" from the hip so I doubt I hit the target /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif I have also opened myself up as a target. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif Fire Away! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/twak.gif

[ QUOTE ]
Albany Tom said:
Pure stupidity? I'd expect better from someone with a moderator title. Perhaps I shouldn't.

[/ QUOTE ]

Mr. Tom, while it's true that I serve as a moderator, the Cafe is not included. Even so, that you think a moderator gives up the privilege to speak in an opinionated manner, and only with prescribed words palatable to every opinion is an unfair expectation. Even the moderators of the Cafe, and the administrators should not only be given that latitude, but should be encouraged to do so simply because they are performing a service for you, not signing away their ability to speak frankly, or to act without your restrictive approval. The standards you expect are apparently "don't make waves".

When a fellow American speaks in a derogatory fashion to the international community using this board, I have as much right to address that international community and tell them that I regard them as people, deserving of respect and that I consider such actions to be non-representative, and a stupid and foolish deviation from the norm.

[ QUOTE ]
Albany Tom said:
Snakebite's a bit on the edge, for sure, but he's echoing a sentiment felt by many in this country.

[/ QUOTE ]

He and those he echoes then can echo all they want and it will not change the system in this country to a monarchy nor a dictatorship. If he and they wish to grant authority to the President beyond what he now has, have you stopped to think that same authority is given to every president after him, even those with whom you disagree. It doesn't matter how good a present president is, he's only temporary.

[ QUOTE ]
Albany Tom said:
Frankly, Empath, all the socialistic crap that you've been spewing is more annoying to me than any of the far right stuff I've seen. At least I can relate to the anger and frustration of people concerned with the current terrorism noise, and certainly with the attitude of most of the UN. I find this distasteful coming from a fellow American, much more so than someone venting their anger at what are less than friendly nations in the first place.


[/ QUOTE ]

Socialistic? I've no idea how the term applies to the words I said. I guess it just seemed like some type of socially acceptable PC terminology that felt good to you, huh?

Whoaaa...I was ready to "post", pulled on the reins...so in a nutshell, recent world events have been very stressful on all of the Earth's inhabitants...Good, bad, intelligent, and stupid things have been said on both sides of our "war & peace" existence. I wonder if we will ever see an Earth at peace during my lifetime, great dream though!

I also understand the state of frustration that we as individuals experience during such times. "How can little ole' me affect what is going on?" It's so overwhelming, all one can do is stand up for what they believe and feel good (or bad if that ends up being the case), that they made a decision to stand for their beliefs. There's a time and a place, a right way and a wrong way...

However, do you think it's asking too much for us fellow Candle Power Forum members to have a little respect for each other here? Some great intelligent and thought provoking messages have been posted here. Such a wealth of technical, scientific, religious, political, humor etc...exists within these "Forum walls"...do we have to taint it with posts that provoke anger and disrespect?

BTW, I actually enjoyed and respected the content and right to voice that content in all of the above posts...but can we keep it "in bounds"?

FWIW...MHO...just "The Sigman" rambling...

[ QUOTE ]
McGizmo said:
unless of course empath is speaking of himself.

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course. But, I prefer to think it's not only me. I don't know why I forgot to add "myself included" there.

I enjoyed you reply. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Isn't snakebites hypothetical speech indirectly promoting some of the sentiments put forth by both sides of the isle?

"Let me start by saying that effective immediately, foreign aid to those nations on List 2 ceases immediately and indefinitely. The money saved during the first year alone will pretty much pay for the costs of the Iraqi war."
Those concerned with the cost of the war, here is the answer.

"This morning I gave the order for a complete removal of all American forces from Iraq. This action will be complete within 30 days."
Those that didn't want us in Iraq, here is the answer.

"It is time for America to focus on its own welfare and its own citizens."
Those that crave more social programs, here is the answer.

"It is time to eliminate hunger in America. It is time to eliminate homelessness in America. It is time to eliminate World Cup soccer from America."
Those that are worried about hunger, homelessness and violence, here is the answer.

All in all I like snakebite's concept but the world is a very small place and despite the two faced friends we have in the world we need to work together. I think there should be consequences to actions. Just about everyone can agree on this in theory the big difference is many feel consequence is defined as one more chance and one more chance. Or, it's not my, your, or anyone's fault so the consequence should be presented as a threat but not enforced. It all starts with an individual's personal responsibility. For some reason personal responsibility and accountability seem to have gone out of style and some feel consequence should only be used as a toothless threat.

The start of the recovery lies in our elementary through high schools. Bring back corporal punishment. Pain and humiliation are a consequence of unacceptable behavior. Quit worrying so much about a child's self esteem and make them understand there are winners and losers. They will get to be both as adults so they need to get familiar with it now. It is our job as parents to give our children self-esteem, love and nurturing. Let's quit making excuses and hold ourselves and others accountable. Let's make the next generation better, stronger and more principled.

I am done rambling.

TKL, please edit.

DD

Empath I also would like to not be included in the apology as I don't think it is fair to broadly represent Americans like that. I am of the opinion that centuries of European Colonialism definitely retarded the development of stability in the very locations that are filled with the most strife today and find it completely Ironic that we recieve so much grief from the very nations that held these people in suspended animation and lack of self government for so long that they haven't yet figured out that tribal conflict, religious rule, and absolute monarchy and communism do not work. Those methods keep people subservient through ignorance and fear (we on the otherhand should watch out as ignorance is definitely on the rise here and is the main catalyst for manipulation) And I will not bend to the accusations that we are wrong here. I think what we have begun is progressive and in the best interest of future peace, if it can be maintained by those who have been liberated is another story.

Thank God that we broke our own colonial bondage and inspired the changes in government back on the "Continent" that took place shortly after when we did as the third world would still be under colonial rule and Europe would probably not even enjoy the limited democracy it has today.

I am not saying that we have something that is perfect but close enough to it to warrant our appreciation of it, and protection of it, hell, I think it inspires jealousy among most who don't have it and yes even some arrogance in those who enjoy it. Rightly so! It is precious.

Only the future will tell if the folks in Afghanistan and Iraq can handle and nuture their newly established democracies and leave more archaic govt. behind, But I hope they can find the enjoyment of diversity and freedom like I have. I have no appologies for my views as they are my opinions base on what history has taught me. As far as the other Americans here I think they will have their own posts to make on the subject.

As for tkl well.......... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Later,
TSG /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[ QUOTE ]
Empath said:
[ QUOTE ]
Albany Tom said:
Pure stupidity? I'd expect better from someone with a moderator title. Perhaps I shouldn't.

[/ QUOTE ]
restrictive approval. The standards you expect are apparently "don't make waves".


[/ QUOTE ]

Nope. The standards I expect pretty much just include civility. Name calling doesn't fit into that one. It's a matter of taste, not opinion.

[ QUOTE ]

When a fellow American speaks in a derogatory fashion to the international community using this board, I have as much right to address that international community and tell them that I regard them as people, deserving of respect and that I consider such actions to be non-representative, and a stupid and foolish deviation from the norm.


[/ QUOTE ]
Absolutely. That doesn't preclude you from continuing the cycle, either.


[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Albany Tom said:
Snakebite's a bit on the edge, for sure, but he's echoing a sentiment felt by many in this country.

[/ QUOTE ]

He and those he echoes then can echo all they want and it will not change the system in this country to a monarchy nor a dictatorship. If he and they wish to grant authority to the President beyond what he now has, have you stopped to think that same authority is given to every president after him, even those with whom you disagree. It doesn't matter how good a present president is, he's only temporary.



[/ QUOTE ]
And the point would be?
[ QUOTE ]


[ QUOTE ]
Albany Tom said:
Frankly, Empath, all the socialistic crap that you've been spewing is more annoying to me than any of the far right stuff I've seen. At least I can relate to the anger and frustration of people concerned with the current terrorism noise, and certainly with the attitude of most of the UN. I find this distasteful coming from a fellow American, much more so than someone venting their anger at what are less than friendly nations in the first place.


[/ QUOTE ]

Socialistic? I've no idea how the term applies to the words I said. I guess it just seemed like some type of socially acceptable PC terminology that felt good to you, huh?


[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, PC is generally socialistic. Socialism depends on some "magic force of good" that keeps people behaving properly, much as you seem to believe these checks and balances do. There were no checks and balances to keep the US out of the Korean war or Vietnam before a declaration of war, nor our military action in WWII before 12/9/45. Checks and balances address situations after they occur. While not a dictator, our president, for good or bad, continues to exercise a lot of power, and has a great deal of freedom of action. Contrary to your belief, this is a good thing, even when we have a bad president. I speak of socialism in the broad sense of a utopian form of government that cannot exist, any more than Snakebite's speech would be read. The difference is that I believe that Snakebite knows his view is just a pipe dream.

[ QUOTE ]
Empath said:
......... hold no more merit than the equally important bits of wit scrawled on restroom walls.


[/ QUOTE ]

I guess it depends on where you chose to relieve yourself. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif I for one have encountered some of life's most profound observations on such hallowed walls. Heck I'll pit some of these against some of the bumperstickers I see here in Berkeley everyday. If only life and interaction were this simple.

Albany Tom,

I really appreciate the clarity and ring of some of your observations.

Due to my overwhelming ignorance of the world picture, I will back out and let those of you who know what you're talking about do so. Dang, it's a good thing there aren't any proficiency tests required prior to posting here. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif

TKL, if you aren't inclined to edit your post, feel free to edit one of mine; perhaps that will be an acceptable compromise? Remember, attack the post not the poster.

EDIT: Dang, Empath escalated this a bit while I was pecking away on this post. Well I voted and if you remove your post then I want mine gone too and I don't think we should stop there or even on this thread or even on this forum.......

Let the record show what has been said was said. We can all be stronger for it; just don't test for proficiency! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif

Keep the post posted. None of what is said here is offending.

I want to apologize to the CPF members. I got a little too heavy. I saw something that apparently was not of the serious nature I interpreted.

Regarding TKL's statement; if he's being asked to edit because of an offense to me, I'm not offended. I've dealt with many really difficult people, and comparitively TKL is a pussycat. If he's being asked because his words aren't acceptable regardless, then the moderator's and administrator's decision should be honored.

heh! did it to you again McGizmo. I just can't leave well enough alone.

I concur, keep what's been posted. It's the very essence of the freedoms we ramble about!

Nice post McGizmo, I have seen quite a few good ones in the "porcelain office" myself! Some are worthy of publishing!

Later,
TSG /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

The reason that I asked tkl to edit his post is because CPF does not tolerate flaming or baiting of any kind. Period. I don't care if anyone was offended or not. It sets a precedence. And next thing you know I have people bitching and whining to me that I allowed it one place and not another. So I will repeat one last time... tkl, please edit your post properly! If forced, I will do it myself.

Nice job Sasha! You're steamed and I read your post and I'm steamed cause I think I'm one of those everyone people. OK, I'll knock it off.

"childish bullshit" might be just a bit off the mark but as I'm one to shoot from the hip, I can hardly find fault.

IN CHILDISH RODNEY KING VOICE: "Can't we all just get along"

- Don

Sasha, Are these your shoes? I don't have a pair of heels?

Don... scroll up and see tkl's response to my suggestion that he edit his post... if that ain't childish bullshit, I don't know what is. As with everything else, if the shoe fits, wear it... if not, have popcorn... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif.... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

.