Would my SF C3 make a good host for a Malkoff P60?

In surefire, I currently have an E2e (perfect size for me to EDC-just wish there was an LED drop in for it), a C3 that sits on a shelf and a G2 LED that is currently my work light, and will be mounted on a rail on my AR soon (I hope).

Anyway, the deal is this. The C3 is a battery eating machine. After being exposed to LED for the first time in my PT Apex Pro and now my brand new G2 LED I am hooked. The G2 LED puts out just about as much light as the C3 (if setup for 105 lumen) so, there is really no need for the C3 anymore. I considered putting in some of my old P91 lamps (200 lumens), but that gives me a mere 20 minutes of run.:shakehead

I want this to be the "blaster" in the stable. Not going to be used often, but I want it to be available if I need to check out a noise in the back yard. The throw of the E2e and G2 LED are good, but nothing compared to the C3 with the P91 lamp installed.

My qustion is this. Would the C3 make a good host for one of the Malkoff P60 drop ins, or would I be better served with a 2 cell host (6P, C2, et al).

From what I understand the output in lumens would be the same between the 6V and 9V setup. The only difference being an increase in run time, and a very small possible savings in cost per hour of regulated runtime. I attribute this to the higher voltage making things more efficient, but I know much less than the average CPFer in regards to the properties of electricity so I am probably wrong.

Any guesses as to how long the regulated burn would be for the C3?

Does the additional weight and length offer an increase in performance by way of acting as a larger heat sink area?

The C3 was my first real light, and I want to let it continue to serve a role, if only a rare one.

Obviously, the cheapest and easiest route would be to simply install one of the two P91 lamps in the closet, and set the C3 back on the shelf, but that just seems boring.

Well you can see by my sig line that I think it's a good idea.

Anyhoo with the 3C and a Malkoff you can use some AW 17500's in there too since you mention runtime concerns.

I'd say that the larger surface area would help with heat dissapation to a small degree, but it is only longer by one cell and your hand will do most of the work heatsinking.

As far as runtime of an M60 on 3 primaries....... somebody else will have to quote that one.

Go for it man, you already know you want to do it!:twothumbs

I have 2 C3's with Malkoff M60's in them. I run them on 6volts. I use 2 batteries and a battery spacer in each one. The larger size of the C3 is nice for around the house use and they run a LONG TIME on a set of batteries. Actually, one is an M60 and the other is an M60L.

Sgt. LED said:

As far as runtime of an M60 on 3 primaries....... somebody else will have to quote that one.

Go for it man, you already know you want to do it!:twothumbs

Click to expand...

You'd get about an extra 45 mins with that third cell - so 2 hours 15 mins with an M60 and three primaries - which is pretty darn good, IMHO!

I haven't run through a set yet in my C2 + detonator.

Also, according to Gene, the 230+ lumens are a constant 230+ for the 2 hours 15 mins - NOT diminishing output over that time period... :rock:

bullfrog said:

You'd get about an extra 45 mins with that third cell - so 2 hours 15 mins with an M60 and three primaries - which is pretty darn good, IMHO!

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I'll say! However, Malkoff's site stated the input voltage for the M60 is between 3.8V to 9V. Does that mean three primary 123's would not blow the M60 lamp? How about the three 3 rechargeable RCR123?

With Aloha,

Clarence

(kinda exploring the possibilities of 3-cells lights)

3 x rechargeables is not usable for the M60.
You can use 2 in a 6P/G2 etc, or 2 + spacer in a 3 cell light.

If it were any other drop-in, I'm sure plenty of people would have been running it with all sorts of over-the-top combinations, just to see, but the Malkoff is such a prized and relatively expensive item that I don't suppose many users would want to try for fear of finding out the hard way that 9v really is the limit.

3 primaries, C3, Malkoff M60, woul serve you very well, but if you're in it for the long haul, I'd suggest adding in a 6P/C2 and using that with the Malkoff. A couple of months down the line and you're using the Malkoff with rechargeables as much as you want without the worry of battery cost, you'll be glad of the extra 6P/C2 investment.

Niconical,

Thanks (gracias?) for the suggestions. Coincidentally, those were the two models that got me hooked into this new "enlightening" hobby. I indeed have some AW cells coming which would then allow me to relegate the primaries as back-ups. I do not dip into the 3-cells lights because I thought it is not very practical to have to change out the lamps every time when I have to use the backup primaries. On the C2 and 6P with either of the M60/L/F or the P60L, my understanding is that all of them are fine with either two RCR123's or primary 123's. On SF site, it lists the P60L as an option for the C3, so I assume it can handle either 2x17500 or 3x123 primaries. I do wish the C3+M60F can handle three RCR123 rechargeables because it would mean one less battery size to manage. Oh well, if the C3+M60 can handle three primary 123s, it would be great because I then have more lamp options in addition to the P60L.

BTW, I would like to thank Sgt. LED because his signature gave me the original idea to pursue about using 3-cells bodies. I really enjoy the size and weight form-factors of 2-cells lights, but the only slightly bigger 3-cells lights should be a good compromise because this format may deliver more runtime.

With Aloha,

Clarence

Niconical said:

3 x rechargeables is not usable for the M60.
...
3 primaries, C3, Malkoff M60, woul serve you very well, but if you're in it for the long haul, I'd suggest adding in a 6P/C2 and using that with the Malkoff. A couple of months down the line and you're using the Malkoff with rechargeables as much as you want without the worry of battery cost, you'll be glad of the extra 6P/C2 investment.

Click to expand...

Niconical said:

3 x rechargeables is not usable for the M60.
You can use 2 in a 6P/G2 etc, or 2 + spacer in a 3 cell light.

If it were any other drop-in, I'm sure plenty of people would have been running it with all sorts of over-the-top combinations, just to see, but the Malkoff is such a prized and relatively expensive item that I don't suppose many users would want to try for fear of finding out the hard way that 9v really is the limit.

3 primaries, C3, Malkoff M60, woul serve you very well, but if you're in it for the long haul, I'd suggest adding in a 6P/C2 and using that with the Malkoff. A couple of months down the line and you're using the Malkoff with rechargeables as much as you want without the worry of battery cost, you'll be glad of the extra 6P/C2 investment.

Click to expand...

Not to worry, the M60 (or M60F, L, LL, LF,) can handle 3 primaries with no issues at all - this is how I run my M60.

RCRs is another story as they are usually over 3Vs each which will be an issue as the M60 can't handle more than 9V - the RCRs you could use are the 3V LiFeP04 (http://www.batteryjunction.com/rc375reliba.html) but you would have to just be extra careful with checking the voltage. This option is less than ideal.

Your best bet for a rechargeable option for the C3 is to get a Pila IBC charger and two protected 17500 button tops from AW (he sells batteries in the B/S/T section) - here is a thread I started looking for rechargeable options for my C2 + Detonator - it has some wonderful input from all the guys on here :

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/205180

Good luck!

2x 17500's in a 3-cell body is the best way to run an M60. And yes, the M60's and all its variations can run safely with 3x primaries.

I've asked this before and Gene gave his blessing on 3 Cell use.
Go for it and enjoy the extra run time

I use LiFePO4 myself, but no way am I trying 3 with my Malkoff.
I don't mind fiddling, just the other day I tried 9.6v with a 9v P90 bulb, just "cuz I wanted to see what would happen", and it turned out I didn't see much at all other than the first 1/10th of a second which seemed to be about how long the P90 lasted

I wouldn't want Mr Malkoff to mess around with a tried, tested and much loved formula, but I must admit it would be nice if the Malkoffs would handle 3 x RCR123A. Although, I can't help feeling that as flashaholics, if the Malkoffs had always been capable of running with 3 x RCR123A, we would still be here having this same discussion but about how it's a shame they can't handle 4

EDIT: Just seen the reply by KID9P above. Was it 3 x RCR123A that was approved? I thought it was a max of 9v?

Thanks for being an enabler guys.

Niconical said:

I use LiFePO4 myself, but no way am I trying 3 with my Malkoff.
I don't mind fiddling, just the other day I tried 9.6v with a 9v P90 bulb, just "cuz I wanted to see what would happen", and it turned out I didn't see much at all other than the first 1/10th of a second which seemed to be about how long the P90 lasted

I wouldn't want Mr Malkoff to mess around with a tried, tested and much loved formula, but I must admit it would be nice if the Malkoffs would handle 3 x RCR123A. Although, I can't help feeling that as flashaholics, if the Malkoffs had always been capable of running with 3 x RCR123A, we would still be here having this same discussion but about how it's a shame they can't handle 4

EDIT: Just seen the reply by KID9P above. Was it 3 x RCR123A that was approved? I thought it was a max of 9v?

Click to expand...

NO, Gene would not approve 3X rechargeables Li Ion's of any type. 3X CR123 (primary Lithium Ion) would be ok. Also 2X Li Ion would be ok.

Bill

Detonator? Whoever coined the term "Surefire Lego" definitely nails it bulleyes. I thought detonator was some kind of stim-pack lamp module until I hit the search engine. It's always good to learn something new. This modular or lego idea certainly makes these lights very flexible.

Back on-topic, may I have some help on the run-time maths? Last time I did circuits or physics was back in the late 80's, and I'm afraid my knowledge retention rates do depreciate significantly over age.

For the sake of simplicity, assuming using a Malkoff lamp and:
3-cells setup = C3 + M60
2-cells setup = C2 + M60

Is it true that:

1. 3x CR123 on the 3-cells over 2x CR123 on the 2-cells
   = 1/3 more run time
2. 3x CR123 on the 3-cells over 2x 17500 on the same 3-cells
   = Twice more run time

I can see the gain in run time as a small plus, and whether the extra size & weight is worth one's while would definitely be a matter of preference. Thanks everyone for the feedbacks and affirmations.

With Aloha,

Clarence

bullfrog said:

Not to worry, the M60 (or M60F, L, LL, LF,) can handle 3 primaries with no issues at all - this is how I run my M60.

RCRs is another story as they are usually over 3Vs each which will be an issue as the M60 can't handle more than 9V - the RCRs you could use are the 3V LiFeP04 (http://www.batteryjunction.com/rc375reliba.html) but you would have to just be extra careful with checking the voltage. This option is less than ideal.

Your best bet for a rechargeable option for the C3 is to get a Pila IBC charger and two protected 17500 button tops from AW (he sells batteries in the B/S/T section) - here is a thread I started looking for rechargeable options for my C2 + Detonator - it has some wonderful input from all the guys on here :

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/205180

Good luck!

Click to expand...

No, mainly because CR123 primary's effective capacity goes down as current demand goes up. Going from 2x 123 to 3x 123 generally yields a 50% or better increase in runtime as less current is being drawn from each battery. Actually that sort of makes sense even without taking the battery's current handling ability into account as you're adding an additional 50% capacity.