Birthday present: My brother needs a light to go with his gun

My brother recently bought a Beretta 9mm pistol both for fun and "just in case". So now that's the perfect excuse for me to buy him a good flashlight for his birthday!

As far as I know, the only thing he's got now is a 2D incan Mag, that's probably in the trunk of his car. So he needs something for those bump in the night cases.

He has a pretty big backyard that butts up against a somewhat overgrown/woodsy area.

I'd say he needs something that could identify a threat at apx. 50 yards, given the size of the area. The light would need to be small enough that he can use it and the pistol at the same time.

So, my first thoughts were a Fenix TK10 or TK11. I wasn't sure if the TK10 would give the necessary throw, but I'd guess the smoother beam would be better for target identification.

The battery issue may be a problem. If it's something that he wouldn't use much, he'd probably be okay with buying a few 123 lithiums (TK10) if the light were mostly a standby/emergency deal. On the other hand, if he ends up wanting to use it a lot, the TK11 becomes attractive for the 18650(?) option. That incurs more up-front cost though, and he'd have to not mind the lithium-ion charging routine.

The simpler option I thought of would be to just get him an L2T and load it with AA lithiums; then he can get NiMH later if he gets more interested in using the light more often. However, I don't think an L2T would give the necessary throw.

What do you think? Has anyone had experience using these lights with a handgun? If there are other lights that would fit the bill feel free to suggest, but I'd like to keep the price down somewhat (the TK11 with lithium-ions and charger looks like it'd be 100+ dollars! gulp)

I sold my rebel L2T quite some time ago but I recall it can throw 150ft no problem. It is kinda long for EDC in summer thou.

Nitecore D10 is another option, thou $10 more it's a lot more compact, and same output as L2T.

which model gun did he get

http://www.opticsplanet.net/streamlight-tlr1-weapon-mounted-flashlight.html

thats about as cheap as i've seen for a decent weaponlight

jzmtl said:

I sold my rebel L2T quite some time ago but I recall it can throw 150ft no problem. It is kinda long for EDC in summer thou.

Nitecore D10 is another option, thou $10 more it's a lot more compact, and same output as L2T.

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A D10 doesn't really go too well with a gun. Although it does have tactical momentary when the head isn't tightened all the way...

I'd go with a Surefire Z2 combat light. Throw in a Malkoff for good measure!

:twothumbs

If you are getting it for self-defense, don't skimp.

Seriously.

If you have no confidence in your gear, it will haunt you. That being said, which Beretta? Some of their full size models come with 1913 spec'd rails so you could mount a nice weaponlight there.

[EDIT] - What outersquare said, the TLR-1 is pretty decent.

For the price, the streamlight TLR-1 is a great choice.
I have the TLR-2 with the laser and love it!
The build quality is nice and it is pretty bright right out of the package. I swapped in a Seoul in place of the LUX III for more output. It is noticanly brighter, but even left alone it is fine. It also fits nicely in the pocket to be used as a standard flashlight as well.

As Mercaptan said, Don't skimp on your gear that may save your life or a loved one.
Just imagine how crappy and maybe dead you would feel if the light you bought didn't work right EVERY TIME just to save a few bucks.

In my opinion, it is absolutely critical to have good gear that you KNOW will work when you need it most.....especially when it comes to firearm accesories.

BTW...$100.00 is not much for piece of mind

Malkoff M60 in a SF 6P. That's all I have to say about that.

A flashlight for CCW, your search begins and ends here. As my father told me, "If you buy cheap, you buy twice". Buy right the first time and save money.

My .02 FWIW YMMV

1) If this is his first gun, he should take a good handgun safety/handling class.
2) Buy a Surefire Z2L for handheld, or TLR-1 mounted. I prefer handheld over the mounted since I have "options".
3) He should take an advanced class (usually, Tactical pistol or something like that but some require a CCW). You will learn to shoot with a light in this type of class.

Have fun, stay safe.

So far, every suggestion, including the original post has been solid in my opinion. I'd much prefer Surefire, Wolf Eyes, Novatac, First Light, and Streamlight brands over Fenix from personal experience. I think I'd sooner trust a Pelican, Inova, Insight, Lumapower or ASP light also.

But for a similar budget light to a Fenix, I'd look at Wolf Eyes. My Wolf Eyes Boxer has lit up bad guys while we shot them with non-lethal, been dropped on concrete, submerged in the ocean, used in a couple of night shooting courses and never had a hiccup. If other Wolf Eyes products work this well, I can recommend them easily.

hmm, u want ur brother to be able to id an attacker at 50 yards and shoot him? i dunno folks. 5 metres and maybe u will hit ur target, only if u use a wolfy. forget the rest:sigh:

Z2 or G2Z. And some good training.

I was a DT instructor to Police and Military for more than a decade. Strongly recommend a non mounted light if it's your only one, so you are not forced to point your gun to use the light. Just exposing a firearm in public, let alone pointing one at a person can get you in big trouble with the law. Yes even if you have a CCW.

Second, you need to consider escalation of force. Basically, you are expected to and should want to use the least amount of force to end your problem. The two weapons I used most in LE was my voice and my light, the two lowest levels of force.

As for as a light to pick I strongly recommend the SF 6P with a high output LED. You want lithium primaries so you get the ten year shelf life, it needs to work when you need it to, and many rechargeable batteries don't slowly dim, they go dead on you fast. You want a momentary switch not a clickie, for tactical use this is a must, if you're an expert you know the few exceptions to this rule, but for the rest of you go with a momentary switch. You want to be able to upgrade to the latest and greatest drop in as they come out. A super bright light is a weapon, it can blind, destroy night vision, cause confusion, make it hard for an attacker to evaluate the environment, asses your numbers and capabilities and form plans of attack.

For searching in the dark, 65 lumens is plenty, to search in dim light and shadows you need a much brighter light and I think at least 150 lumens is needed and don't believe you can have too much. Overcoming shadow is hard to do, keep this in mind when you evaluate that light that was so bright on a campout far from city lights. If you want a good test for a light see how well you can shine past a street light to a distant car and light up its interior or take a house with good outside lighting and try to look through a window into a dark interior.

If you want to be able to shine a light at someone's face and literally have their brain forget what they were thinking about for a moment, have to restart their thought process and bleach out the chemicals in the eyes that allow for night vision you need as much light as you can get.

People shooting in the dark tend to shoot high and when shooting into bright lights, way high. This is because they can't find the front sight and tend to tilt the barrel up looking for it. The thought that a bright light makes you a target is not very valid although it does give away your location- hence the momentary only use it if you need it switch and suggested practice of light then move. If you hold a handgun with weak hand under holding the light in a weaver stance and the light is the only thing another person can see of you, their intended aim is largely outside of your center of mass anyway, so it's best to move left if right handed and vice versa. Firearm sights are designed to be backlit and do not work well at all directed at a bright light. Tritium, electronic sights and lasers become very hard to use into a bright light as well.

You want a high output LED, my favorite is the Malkoff, but the Q5's and R2's from China also do the job well. Right now Surefire LED's are not top of the game for drop-ins although the P61L may catch them back up and you do not want anything that changes brightness levels when you tap the button, ONE MODE only for tactical use. I don't have any issues with the "plastic" lights as long as they come with a metal head, for tactics you are very unlikely to run the light long enough to have heat issues. The standard SF G2 however, does not come with a metal head. The light I carry when I carry is a 6P with Malkoff LA. I have a Fenix P2D on my keys so I always have a long burning practical light as well.

If you can only get one thing get a 6P even if it's incandescent, later you can get a LED when you've got more money to spend. If you end up with a need to mount a light on a shotgun or carbine, this will work with just a replacement tail cap and light mount. If you ever want a dedicated light on your handgun, I like the ones that use the same drop ins as the 6P, technology is changing, and lots of lights are becoming ho hum performers that were state of the art just five years ago. DO NOT use an incan bulb light on a weapons mount, if you own one, fine, but I've seen way to many bulbs fail from recoil during training and on the job. They are most likely to fail if you fire the weapon on a fresh set of batteries with light lit or just lit especially if it's a higher than stock output bulb. Killed lots of P61 bulbs before I figured this out. I tend to run down a pair of batteries a bit in a carry light before moving them to the weapons light if it's an incandescent. Surefire has the best of the shock isolated systems, but even they are going with LED's in all of their new designs. The only incandescent weapons light I still own is a Glock laser light. Not a bad light, like it's shape and it hasn't blown bulbs, but light output is lame compared to my Chinese copy of a Surefire 200 series with a R2 LA.

Excellent post, thank you very much for taking the time to type that all out.

One very small supplement: if cost is a factor, the Nitrolon SureFire line is an excellent alternative to the 6P/Z2 series of lights.

Thanks BB, that was instructive. I'm probably taking my first basic handgun training course this November, the course content covers some of the material you've described.

JNewell said:

Excellent post, thank you very much for taking the time to type that all out.

One very small supplement: if cost is a factor, the Nitrolon SureFire line is an excellent alternative to the 6P/Z2 series of lights.

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Not so much in my opinion, if the goal is to get to a high output LED. You can get a 6P for $59 and a G2 for $36 so it looks like it should be a savings of $23 bucks. But, for a high output LED you need to add a metal head to keep the LED and circuitry safe and the incandescent G2 doesn't come with one. So you'd spend $15 for a low quality one out of china or you'd then have to buy a G2LED for $65 bucks with a factory Surefire metal head. Figure $20 for a R2 Drop in and a 6P should be about 59+20=79 while the G2 would be 36+15+20=71 and that would be for a plastic body and aftermarket head.

For tactics the heat dissipation is a lesser issue as you tend to do very short bursts and things are over quick, but if your the guy holding the light for the paramedic working on your wife, I'd want the all metal body.

I would spend the money/effort on buying and installing motion detector flood lights in the back yard first. That will give you far more illumination and warning time.

Unless the back yard is equipped with trip wires and the like, I suspect that the first time you detect some potential threat in the back yard will be when it is in-close. With a motion detector flood light, however, you'll get a visual signal of something that has entered your yard at the max range of the motion detector.

After that, I'd get a standard SureFire 6P handheld and add an LED drop-in like a Wolf Eyes or Malkoff.

duplicate post deleted

Kestrel said:

Thanks BB, that was instructive. I'm probably taking my first basic handgun training course this November, the course content covers some of the material you've described.

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Oh bravo by the way, I know so many people with several guns, dozens of magazines and zero training.

I should clarify a few things here. I don't know what model the Beretta is, but it does not have rails to mount a weapon light/laser (I asked him about it a while back).

Also, the 50yrd throw thing is not just to identify humans, but also any wildlife that might be in the back. He's had some issues with critters out there, and it might be useful for him to have a light he can make a quick sweep with before he lets his dogs out at night to pee.

I thought about the G2 led version, but single mode only is kind of a bummer.

Remember, this would be more of a general purpose light that could also be used with a gun, rather than a dedicated gun light. (since he doesn't have a nice light of any type).

I think I may loan him my TaskForce Cree light for a while just to give him a taste of the "crack" and see how he likes it!

foxtrot29 said:

A D10 doesn't really go too well with a gun. Although it does have tactical momentary when the head isn't tightened all the way...

I'd go with a Surefire Z2 combat light. Throw in a Malkoff for good measure!

:twothumbs

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Ditto. Z2L or cheaper Z2 + Malkoff M60. This is my setup (actually 2 of them). I've won low-light matches with my Z2s. I have an aftermarket striker bezel on mine. Can't be beat for portability, brightness, general "tacticool" with extreme reliability. Don't skimp on a gun light, and don't use incandescent....