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Thread: (New Data p2)BeamShots Comparison Malkoff Triple Drop-M60/M60F +more Flashlights

  1. #1

    Cool BeamShots Comparison Malkoff Triple Drop many more Flashlights

    I decided to try a better approach to comparing various flashlights than just in an open rectangular space shooting range. Here I have 5 color image targets in my back yard. Some are trying to hide. I am approximately 55 feet back from the fence shown as the backdrop. All photos were taken with manual exposure mode of F2.8 and 1 second.

    Flashlights were set on a table very close to camera tripod to the right and lower than the camera's point of view by about 2 feet.


    This is the Malkoff M60 L. All photos will have flashlight pointing at target behind the tree.


    This is the Solarforce Cree R2 single mode in the Solarforce L2 Host. Measured at over 200 lumens.


    This is the Lighthound Cree Q5 running direct drive (drive circuit removed) off of a 17670 battery over 1.1 Amp. In Solarforce L2 host.


    This is the Fenix T1, with over 220 actual measured lumens, which is still a very good light to have. Notice how it has a lot of useable light in the spill. What's that over to the right???


    This is the Malkoff M60 in a Solarforce L2 host. Measured in this host at over 210 lumens.



    This is the Malkoff M60F (flood) also in a Solarforce L2 host. Very nice beam pattern in my opinion. Measured at 202 Lumens.



    Now we come to the Malkoff Triple Drop in a 3C Maglight using an Ultraclear (AR coated) lens. Now we can see the guy on the right very well. Measured by precision works to be over 720 lumens.


    This is the Malkoff Triple drop with a diffuser over 1 of the 3 individual reflectors to soften the beam.


    This is the Malkoff triple drop with diffusers over 2 of the 3 individual reflectors.


    This is the Malkoff triple drop with diffusers over all 3 reflectors. The partial diffusers were made from a plastic sheet from a 2 liter soda bottle (polyethylene???) sanded down with 320 grit paper on one side only. The full diffuser was the original maglight plastic lens sanded with 320 grit paper on one side only.

    Compare these photos to the Malkoff M60F unit. Notice how there is far more light in the spill area even with the loss of light from the diffuser.

    Once again I must state that the photos don't do the real image justice. I could see very clearly everything and everyone in the backyard using the Malkoff Triple Drop even with a full diffuser over all 3 LED reflectors.

    The targets images are 22 inches across and 35 inch tall. The span across the backyard from the red fence on the left to the back wall of the house is 23 feet.

    The Malkoff triple in a 3C flashlight makes for a very handy floody searchlight that is a good size platform to rest a handgun into.

    I don't have any one's P7 conversion for a maglight to compare to. I believe that this is a useful comparison of various 200 Plus Lumens light sources, (with the one exception of the M60L) with spot versus flood type outputs and then the triple drop which is a floody type light with a hot spot.

    I hope this helps.

    This is a carry over of the Malkoff M60F good for indoor search use? thread. shown here.

    http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/show...=201722&page=2

    Since this is an outdoor set of photos and a comparison to the new triple drop I thought it would be better to have its own thread. But the whole idea is being able to determine if you can see something useful.

    Unfortunately all of the targets are just slightly out of focus. Operator error and limited resolution looking at the LCD display of a low budget (borrowed) digital camera. Hope this helps, G
    Last edited by MrGman; 05-17-2009 at 05:11 PM. Reason: Title update due to additional flashlight photo links.

  2. #2
    Flashaholic* 5.0Trunk's Avatar
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    Default Re: BeamShots Comparison of Malkoff Triple Drop to M60, M60F and other Flashlights

    WOW. Thanks for the Beamshots. I really need to get that triple from Gene.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: BeamShots Comparison of Malkoff Triple Drop to M60, M60F and other Flashlights

    Thanks for the comparisons. I have the SolarForce R2 5-mode, assuming it is relatively the same as the single mode in ouput, the M60 has an impressive advantage. I also really like the difference the Fenix T1 shows. I think I might try to get a T1 or M60 next. I have been looking at both but really did wonder how they compared to what I have. Now I know.
    My wife would kill me if I forked out the money for that triple, it is awesome however.

    Thanks for your work,
    Jon

  4. #4

    Default Re: BeamShots Comparison of Malkoff Triple Drop to M60, M60F and other Flashlights

    Oronacova, I hate to tell you the bad news but I had 2 of the 5 mode R2 units. Measured their output on the integration sphere at work along with the various single mode R2 models I have had (sold several to friends of course and gave one away to precisionworks). The 5 mode unit is not as bright. The best I have gotten out of a 5 mode R2 unit was 160 lumens. The best I have gotten out of a R2 single mode unit is 220 lumens. I am guessing that they have to run it at less current to get the 5 mode controller chip to work right or survive or something. The single mode R2 is much brighter. I gave my last 5 mode unit to precisionworks after I measured it very thoroughly so he could have it as a calibrated reference for his own integration sphere reference unit. The Fenix T1 will be much brigher than the 5 mode unit you have, it if was anything like the ones I had.

    You will be happy with the Malkoff units, I love all of mine.

  5. #5

    Default Re: BeamShots Comparison of Malkoff Triple Drop to M60, M60F and other Flashlights

    Good beam shots that mean something. Much better than looking at a wall. Thanks

  6. #6

    Default Re: BeamShots Comparison of Malkoff Triple Drop to M60, M60F and other Flashlights

    Wow! Thanks for posting the beamshots. I appreciate the comparisons.

    Gene

  7. #7

    Default Re: BeamShots Comparison of Malkoff Triple Drop to M60, M60F and other Flashlights

    Quote Originally Posted by Gene43 View Post
    Wow! Thanks for posting the beamshots. I appreciate the comparisons.

    Gene

    A: Your welcome
    B: Good work deserves ... more good work.
    C: Feel free to link to this thread from your product pages of your website (if that is permissible) and use it.

    Not that its relevant to the issue of beam pattern but I have dropped my Solarforce L2 hosts off of my mountain bike several times already on hard concrete with the M60 and M60F heads in them due to less than optimum flashlight holders (they have been further tweaked for better grip). This has been dinging up the housings of the flashlights but the LED modules just keep going strong, which I cannot say for some other name brand items which I shall not mention.

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    Default Re: BeamShots Comparison of Malkoff Triple Drop to M60, M60F and other Flashlights

    wow, the malkoff is REALLY a bright light.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: BeamShots Comparison of Malkoff Triple Drop to M60, M60F and other Flashlights

    Mrgman, Thanks for the info there. I am pretty impressed with the 5-mode but it sounds like I'd be even more impressed with the M60 or T1. I think I'll have to wait for the M60 to go into mass production as every time I think I can get one they are gone. That's ok though, it is just a testament to how good they are and how well they are liked.
    -Jon

  10. #10
    Flashaholic Ninjaz7's Avatar
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    Default Re: BeamShots Comparison of Malkoff Triple Drop to M60, M60F and other Flashlights

    My m60 in a G2Z host is my favorite grabber...from light up your backyard to blast my way to the kitchen,let alone camping or tactical.

  11. #11
    *Flashaholic* precisionworks's Avatar
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    Default Re: BeamShots Comparison of Malkoff Triple Drop to M60, M60F and other Flashlights

    Nice work, MrGman

    The M60 has the nicest mix of throw & spill of any small head (2x123) light that I've seen. Tough as nails, too.

    I don't have any one's P7 conversion for a maglight to compare to.
    I'll send my Mac's Customs P7 if that would help.
    Surefire® boring including E-Series & Weapon Lights* Please text msg, phone or email through contact page at https://precisionelectrical.us/

  12. #12

    Default Re: BeamShots Comparison of Malkoff Triple Drop to M60, M60F and other Flashlights

    I have been on a secret mission for Gene. He called me a couple weeks ago and wanted me to test out a new special holographic filter. Pattern cut into it with laser. Makes a rectangular beam pattern. Narrow in one axis and very wide in the other. Very strong in the hot spot across the beam with a lot of spill. Intended for use with the Triple drop but there are other applications.

    So I said I would be happy to test it, got it last Friday and started my evaluation. Tonight I was able to get comparative beamshots.


    Malkoff Triple drop in 4C maglight no filter, F5.0 2 sec


    This is the triple drop with the filter installed. If I am reading it right its called the 30 degree X 5 degree beam pattern. Still F5.0 for 2 seconds. Same exposure level as the previous shot. Also I am very close to the original position near the fenceline that I was for the previous series of shots.


    This the original "raw" output Triple drop at about 11 feet to the back wall of my house with 3 "friends" looking to see the light. Since I am closer I changed the exposure to F8 and 0.6 seconds.


    This is the triple drop with the 30 deg X 5 deg filter installed, still at F8.0 for 0.6 seconds. Compare this only to previous photo.

    Once again I must point out that the beam shots do not do the real view of the scene justice in regards to contrast and what the human eye can see. I turned down the exposure to get a sense of the contrast here, but to the eye I could see all with and without the filter. The filter does smooth out the beam in the horizontal axis and made the narrow strip across look beautifully clear, less glare and central hotspot.

    I will let Gene address his plans for the filter material. He also had another one that was even more narrower in profile pattern than this. I thought it was too narrow for this application. This one works out very well.

    More to come.
    Last edited by MrGman; 10-12-2008 at 11:37 PM.

  13. #13

    Default Re: BeamShots Comparison of Malkoff Triple Drop to M60, M60F and other Flashlights

    I thought a comparison of the original Malkoff M60 and M60F at this closer distance to the wall with the "three amigos" would be a good comparison. So here they are at the same exposure level, F8.0 and 0.6 second to compare to the triple drop shown in previous post.


    So this is the original Malkoff M60. Since the exposure level was dialed in for the triple drop of previous post this looks dark by comparison but of course I could see all 3 amigo's very well. The camera exposure simply shows there is a lot less photons here than with the triple.



    This is the Malkoff M60F (flood) being compared at the same F8.0 for 0.6 sec at this same new distance. as the previous 3 photos.

    Again the photos don't do what I really saw justice. In this case these last 2 are darker than what I would have normally done to show how much brighter the triple drop is by comparing the 4 photos all at one manual exposure level.

    There will be more to come but its 01:38 and the pillow is calling me.
    Last edited by MrGman; 09-19-2008 at 05:11 PM.

  14. #14
    Flashaholic SnWnMe's Avatar
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    Default Re: (More Pics) BeamShots Comparison of Malkoff Triple Drop-M60/M60F +more Flashlight

    I just got my M60 today and was pretty set on returning it for an M60L but after trying it, not anymore!

    But wow I need to get me an M60F also. I'm gunna need more 6P bodies
    There are two kinds of people in the world. Those with a zombie plan and those who are dinner.

  15. #15

    Default Re: (More Pics) BeamShots Comparison of Malkoff Triple Drop-M60/M60F +more Flashlight

    You can always go with the Solarforce hosts and save money. The reverse clicky works very well. I only have 5 of them so far. Then you can get the extension tubes and run the lights with 2 X 17500 for better run time and Guilt Free Lumens (GFL) from rechargeable batteries that actually run for a couple of hours +.

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    Enlightened nismotor's Avatar
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    Talking Re: (More Pics) BeamShots Comparison of Malkoff Triple Drop-M60/M60F +more Flashlight

    Thanks a lot MrGman, you just saved me a bunch on $$. i was going back and forth as to which M60 unit was better suited for me, but now I know exactly which Malkoff unit I really want!

    I'm just curious to see the M60FL now.... hehe

  17. #17
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    Default Re: (More Pics) BeamShots Comparison of Malkoff Triple Drop-M60/M60F +more Flashlight

    Great comparisons. This shows how important sidespill is in some applications.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: (More Pics) BeamShots Comparison of Malkoff Triple Drop-M60/M60F +more Flashlight

    MrGman, have you tried out Gene's diffusion material on the M60? Be nice to compare it to M60F.

    Bill

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    Default Re: (More Pics) BeamShots Comparison of Malkoff Triple Drop-M60/M60F +more Flashlight

    Awesome pics.

    I cannot wait for my 9P to show up so I can try the M60 module.

    It seems M60 is a lot brighter than M60F, due to the tight spot (I know it's an illusion).

  20. #20
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    Default Re: (More Pics) BeamShots Comparison of Malkoff Triple Drop-M60/M60F +more Flashlight

    If I were to investigate a bump in the night or were trundling in a dark forest, the F would be perfect.

    The regular M60 is perfect for critical examination of objects. It really reveals flaws and discrepancies.
    There are two kinds of people in the world. Those with a zombie plan and those who are dinner.

  21. #21

    Default Re: (More Pics) BeamShots Comparison of Malkoff Triple Drop-M60/M60F +more Flashlight

    Quote Originally Posted by Bullzeyebill View Post
    MrGman, have you tried out Gene's diffusion material on the M60? Be nice to compare it to M60F.

    Bill

    Yes I have, it does the same thing on the M60 that it does on the triple, makes for a nice wide hot spot in the horizontal axis with smooth even spill into the vertical axis. So it will smooth out the hot spot by spreading it out more evenly horizontally, yet be bright in that narrow central area vertically. Whereas the Flood model is a semi wide beam in a circular pattern.

    The whole point of this specific filter is to just spread out the beam in one axis be it horizontal or vertical to see what you need to see. Since we live mostly in a a horizontal plane, if you wanted to see everything across the "landscape" in one shot and not waste putting a lot of light up into the trees or down at your feet, this is the filter.

    On the other hand, if you were looking up a ladder or a narrow stairwell and wanted to see the entire vertical path without wasting a lot of light sideways, this would be great, simply rotate the flashlight 90 degrees.

    This type of filter might be very useful for bike lights to light up along the street and see whats around a corner as one example of a specific use.

    I could see it as a flip up filter accessory for the maglight or for the M60 on a Sure Fire or other light of similar configuration.

    The 2 samples Gene gave me were precut to fit inside the maglight bezel. I placed them in front of the M60 in a SureFire host but don't want to cut it down to that size as I have more research to do, and kind of like it for the Maglight with the triple drop.

    I am asking Gene if the company makes any that is just a little less wide and so narrow in the opposite axis. In other words not such a skinny wide rectangular pattern. Something more along the ration of 2:1 like the movie screen patterns in the theaters.

    But the more I look at this the more I like it.

  22. #22

    Default Re: (More Pics) BeamShots Comparison of Malkoff Triple Drop-M60/M60F +more Flashlight

    Quote Originally Posted by SnWnMe View Post
    If I were to investigate a bump in the night or were trundling in a dark forest, the F would be perfect.

    The regular M60 is perfect for critical examination of objects. It really reveals flaws and discrepancies.
    The M60 and F are both really great lights, I can't help but love them both because the one has such a smooth transition from hot spot to spill and the flood just has such a smooth useful beam, especially indoors where it bounces off the walls evenly and just lights up that room.

    My triple drop with my home made diffuser is simply the same as having 3 M60F's with a wider circular beam pattern. Its more like turning on the light in your kitchen where now you simply see everything that's there, nice and easy.

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    Default Re: (More Pics) BeamShots Comparison of Malkoff Triple Drop-M60/M60F +more Flashlight

    I guess the next obvious question would be, does Gene's difussion material reduce the overall output (lumens). Minor losses?

    Bill

  24. #24

    Default Re: (More Pics) BeamShots Comparison of Malkoff Triple Drop-M60/M60F +more Flashlight

    Quote Originally Posted by Bullzeyebill View Post
    I guess the next obvious question would be, does Gene's difussion material reduce the overall output (lumens). Minor losses?

    Bill

    The answer is the losses are very minor. I am estimating by what I see as to less than 4% total, probably around 3%. I don't have a lux meter yet. I am looking into buying a good one but have been very busy with other things. The maglight doesn't fit into the integration sphere's opening port so I can't use it for a direct reading. I would have to make a home made one like precisionworks and make the port big enough to take in the maglight, which I will probably do through the winter months, but now its not on the agenda.

    Anyway in general nonsmooth surfaces actually reflect less light than a smooth one. A smooth piece of glass or plastic window reflects typically 4% off of each surface and there are always the 2 so thats a multiple that is just a fraction of 8% loss.

    A textured surface such as this does not have that substantial loss.

    What I did do was take the 2 that I had and put them together in series and shined the light on the ceiling and looked at the bed. With 2 I could see some light loss, with one I could just barely detect any thing different from the naked beam of the triple. With my homemade diffuser of sanded plastic it was between the 1 and 2 of these special holographic diffusers that Gene gave me.

    So its better than just an abraided plastic sheet, which you saw in my original set of postings how it makes for diffuse light.

    I will try and get some pictures of the diffusers themselves next. I am doing this in little bits and pieces mostly because I am very busy with other personal projects around the house.

    Hope this helps BE BILL.

  25. #25
    Flashaholic* woodrow's Avatar
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    Default Re: (More Pics) BeamShots Comparison of Malkoff Triple Drop-M60/M60F +more Flashlight

    Nice!!!! Beamshots! The tripple Cree dropin is very impressive. So is the Fenix T1 for that matter. ( I just gave mine to my friend who is a airline pilot and always traveling after I got my Olight M20...he had a cheap dorcy led/incan light....but while I am happy for him... I will really miss it)

    I like the really wide spill of the 3 Cree drop in light. While I like lights like the Raidfire Spear for their throw abilities... in a tactical situation...I might have missed the bad guy on the right.

    Thanks again for the great photos.
    "I only smile in the dark...my only comfort is the night gone black..."lyrics from Garbage

  26. #26
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    Default Re: (More Pics) BeamShots Comparison of Malkoff Triple Drop-M60/M60F +more Flashlight

    Thanks MrGman, I have found, using bounce with light meter, that the SF beam shaper causes losses exceeding 15%, and got better results with an LDF window from flashlightlens.com, that is, less loss. I lost my written data, and can not find my beam shaper to recheck my findings. I think that 10% is acceptable, if the result is a nice flood without a remarkable hot spot.

    Bill

  27. #27

    Default Re: (More Pics) BeamShots Comparison of Malkoff Triple Drop-M60/M60F +more Flashlight

    I wouldn't use the meter with a ceiling bounce test, I would build an integration sphere with styrofoam, that has seemed to work very well for others. Look up precisionworks name in a search and you will find a lot of his work, I helped him on some of it.

    But this diffuser has no hot spot center, the pattern makes a nice horizontal spread of that beam.

    All I can really say is that no pictures will do it justice, it has to be seen and appreciated with your own eyes.

    And the triple has more then enough lumens output to run it and light up everything in one pass.

  28. #28

    Default Re: (More Pics) BeamShots Comparison of Malkoff Triple Drop-M60/M60F +more Flashlight

    Spoke to Gene today, the filter I am using is a 30 degree by 5 (not 2) degree beam spread. So since I was putting the wider axis horizontally, that would be 30 degrees wide and 5 degrees tall. I asked about possibly getting a 25 deg by 8 deg beam pattern from the vendor who makes these things.

    In the meantime he is going to send me sample(s) cut to fit the M60 directly so I will do some beam shots with them actually installed under the bezel when I have them.

  29. #29
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    Default Re: (More Pics) BeamShots Comparison of Malkoff Triple Drop-M60/M60F +more Flashlight

    Excellent comparison beamshots - very useful - thank you!
    Resistance is futile...

  30. #30

    Default Re: (More Pics) BeamShots Comparison of Malkoff Triple Drop-M60/M60F +more Flashlight

    Quote Originally Posted by MrGman View Post
    Spoke to Gene today, the filter I am using is a 30 degree by 5 (not 2) degree beam spread. So since I was putting the wider axis horizontally, that would be 30 degrees wide and 5 degrees tall. I asked about possibly getting a 25 deg by 8 deg beam pattern from the vendor who makes these things.

    In the meantime he is going to send me sample(s) cut to fit the M60 directly so I will do some beam shots with them actually installed under the bezel when I have them.
    Is that filter material plastic or glass of some type? What about a picture of the filter for us?
    SureFire6PDw/M60, CabelaXPGw/M60, Surefire6Pw/A19&M60F, Mini-Magw/5EX, Scorpionw/TL3, MagChargerw/1160, Mag3D1185, Romisen RC-N3Q5, TiabloA9, Surefire3Pw/M30, BrinkmannMFLXw/1343, Minimagw/TL3

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