Hello, I'm complicated and new!

Hello! I have been lurking these boards for a little while and finally got around to getting an account set up. I am really new to all this, in fact until recently I didn't even know they had a word for people like us, let alone a place where they gathered! For my part I was just happy to know that contrary to what my wife had to say, I was in fact NOT crazy for being into flashlights (or at least I thought I was, after looking around here it is obvious that I am still very green!).

I have been trying to research a good EDC (every day carry, yeah?) light. I did not want to be one of those guys who pops in with his first post being 'help me help me I didn't bother to use the search feature!'. Not that there is anything intrinsically wrong with that, but it's not in my nature to ask for help when I can just do the leg work myself

Anyhow, enough of my rambling, let me get to what I'm here for. The wife has been pestering me about what I want for XMAS already. I know, good kind of problem to have, right? I am a FF/EMT, so a good light is always important in my line of work. In fact, I pretty much subscribe to the 'better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it' school of thought. In my turnout gear I carry a Streamlight Survivor LED (and I love it, it beats the heck outta anything else I've carried, plus it's the AA model so if the batteries go dead on scene I can swap them out), a Streamlight 3c Pro Polymer (which is on its way back to the mfg. for a warranty claim) and a very cheap Husky LED light (I think I got a 4 pack at Home Depot @ Christmas for like $15). The LED is a great throw away light, plus since it lasts a while on batteries I don't have to worry about my backup's backup being dead.

However, I am not always in turnouts. I am pretty good about grabbing that LED and dropping it in a pocket if we are making a call that doesn't necessitate turnouts, plus we have box lights and scene lighting, etc., but I really want a good EDC light that I can keep in a pocket both on duty and off.

I have been unable to find a good answer through searching (let me re-phrase that, there are a TON of great answers but I didn't see anything that fit me perfectly). I was going back and forth on asking for help, and then I found a thread with a Recommend a Flashlight Checklist attached to it. I figured what the heck, at least if I'm going to bore everyone with yet another 'help me pick an EDC light' I may as well try to be as concise as possible.

Heh, concise. I guess that part went out the window when I wrote those preceding 5 paragraphs, huh? Anyways, "help me help me I did bother to use the search feature but I just confused the heck out of myself!"

Recommend a Flashlight Checklist:
(Don't worry about all the questions, just the ones you feel strongly about!)

Short Essay Question: What do you intend to use this light for?

I am looking for a solid, reliable EDC light that is small enough to fit in a pocket, durable, and bright (I want it all, who doesn't!). I am not interested in anything that requires a holster, they tend to get in the way of turnout gear. An aesthetically pleasing light would be a plus, but I won't kid you, it will take a beating. Something that feels solid in your hands probably sums up what I'm looking for in that dept. (though a good WOW factor from my friends is cool too ). I don't want to break the bank if I don't have to, but I also want something that can take the abuse I am going to be dealing out and still keep on shining (don't get me wrong, I don't plan to abuse my light, but I am being realistic, I wind up taking a beating, so my equipment does too). Also, in my line of work, when you want a light, you want the brightest one you can get ASAP. I really am not looking for a custom light at this time, though I am open to it if ya'll want to talk me into it . Being able to use AA/AAA batteries would be a plus, but again, I am still fairly new to the game, so if you can talk me into something else, I'm open to listening. I really don't like recharable batteries, because I am not always able to recharge when the light goes dead.


0) What Region/Country/State will the light be purchased in?

__X__I will be mail-ordering or buying online, so this doesn't matter.
__X__I am in North America. More precisely I am in _Tennessee______.
____I am in South America. More precisely I am in _______________.
____I am in Europe. More precisely I am in _______________.
____I am in the Middle East. More precisely I am in _______________.
____I am in Africa. More precisely I am in _______________.
____I am in Asia, Japan or Micronesia. More precisely I am in _______________.
____I am in Australia. More precisely I am in _______________.


1) Price Range: An easy question, but you may change your mind after answering the rest!

____I only want to pay $1-10.
____I can spend $15-30.
____I could spend $40-60.
____I am willing to spend $80-$120.
____I have no limit!


For the sake of arguement here, let's keep it reasonable. I do have a gov't job afterall Let's say, top 2 or 3 lights, around $50-$100 (though less is acceptible too )


2) Format:

_X_I want a flashlight.
____I want a headlamp.
____I want a lantern.
____I want a portable spotlight.

3) Length:

____I don't care.
____1-2 inches. (Keychain sized)
__X__2-4 inches. (Pocket carry)
____4-9 inches. (Holster carry)

4) Width:

__X__I don't care.
____I prefer a long narrow light.
__X__I prefer a short wide light.

5) What batteries do you want to use? Alkaline batteries are easier to find and less expensive but don't pack as much stored energy and are don't work well in cold temperatures. Lithium batteries have long shelf life (10+ years, great for stored emergency lights) and are not as affected by cold but must be kept dry and are more expensive. Rechargeable start expensive, but if used frequently pay off quickly.

____I want common Alkaline batteries. (AA, AAA, C, D)
__I want lithium batteries. (coin cells, CR123, AAA, AA...)
____I want a rechargeable system. (an investment, but best for everyday use)

Please see the essay portion at the top of the checklist for my thoughts on this.

6) How much light do you want? Sometimes you can have too much light (trying to read up close up with a 100 lumen light is impossible). Select all that apply.

____I want to read a map, or find a light switch, in a dark room. (5-10 lumens)
____I want to walk around a generally paved area. (15-20 lumens)
__X__I want to walk unpaved trails. (40 lumens)
__X__I want to do Caving or Search & Rescue operations. (60+ lumens)
_ X_I want to light an entire campground or dazzle an intruder. (100+ lumens)

Probably something with at least 2 settings would be best for me. Generally brighter is better for me, but if we are in a dark room with a light sensitive patient, I don't want to be running people out if I don't have to. I also understand that the 100+ lumens is likely unreasonable for what I am looking for (size wise) but hey, it was an option and brighter is better .

7) Throw vs Flood: Which do you prefer, lights that flood an area with a wide beam, or lights that "throw" with a tightly focused beam? Place an "X" on the line below.

Throw (distance)----------------------X------------------Flood/close-up

Yeah, sorry, I know I'm not much help on this one, but I honestly haven't given it a whole lot of thought. Probably more emphasis on a flood than a throw though, but again, hadn't really thought about this one. Any thoughts on this would be appreciated!

8) Runtime: Not over-inflated manufacturer runtime claims (like some LED lights). but usable brightness measured from first activation to 50% with new batteries.

____20 min. (I want the brightest light for brief periods)
____60-240 min. (1-2 hours)
__X__240-360 min. (4-6 hours)
__X__360+ min. (More than 6 hours)

Again, it may be unrealistic, but hey, I want it all

9) Durability: Generally the old phrase "you get what you pay for" is very accurate for flashlights.

____Not Important (A "night-stand" light.)
____Slightly Important (Walks around the neighborhood.)
____Very Important (Camping, Backpacking, Car Glove-box.)
_XXXXXXX_Critical (Police, Fire, Search & Rescue, Self-defense, Survival.)

Is bomb proof an acceptible answer?

8) Switch Type:

____I don't care.
____I want a sliding switch. (Stays on until slid back.)
__X__I want a "clickie" switch. (Stays on until pressed again.)
____I want a momentary switch. (Only stays on while held down.)

9) Switch Location:

____I don't care.
____I want a push or sliding switch on the body near the head.
__X_I want a push switch on the back end of the body.
____I want a rotating head switch.
__X_I want a rotating end-cap switch.
__I want a remote control.

If it's dark and I'm wearing gloves, I don't want to fumble for the switch.

10) Operational Modes: Check all that apply.

____A simple on-off is fine for me.
_XI want 2 light levels. (Brighter/short runtime and Dimmer/long runtime.)
_X_I want multiple light levels. (some lights have 5-16 light levels.)
____I want a strobe mode. (blinks to show location.)
____I want a tactical strobe. (Flashes rapidly to disorient an opponent.)

11) Is it important whether the body is metal or plastic/composite?

____I don't care.
__X_I want a metal-bodied light.
____I want a plastic/composite light.

I'm not sure plastic would hold up, as it is very likely that at numerous times I will be laying with my entire body weight on this thing in my pocket.

12) Special Needs: Is there anything else you want or need that hasn't been mentioned? Circle any below or write in your own comment(s).

____Red (night vision preserving) filter
____Other filter colors (Amber, Green, Blue, _________)
__XWaterproof – how deep: _Doesn't have to be real deep, but I work in a wet environment, plus it will be exposed to copious amounts of sweat.
____Non-reflective/dark finish (stealthy/hard to find)
__X__Polished silver or brightly colored finish (for easy locating) Would be nice but not a necessity.
_X_Corrosion resistant or hard-anodized finish See my sweat remark above
__X__"Hybrid" light (bright incandescent combined with long running LEDs) Again, good thought here, but I'm not married to a particular idea at this time.
____Built-in second (or spare) lamp or filament
__X__Belt/Jacket clip Hands free can be handy. Get it? Sorry, I'll stop that sorta thing right now
____Holster
____Wrist/Neck Lanyard
____Kobuton/self defense features
____Non-sparking Intrinsically Safe (IS) for use in explosive environments (I'm not worried about that, my main light (Streamlight Survivor) is designed for this.

Still wth me? Sorry for the book, I just wanted to make sure I covered it all and tried to be a conscientious first poster. (Oh yeah, sorry for the abundance of smilies as well, but I see enough serious stuff at work, so I tend to be relaxed and easy going at play, and I didn't want anyone to take some of my smart aleck remarks too seriously )


Anyways, thanks for the help, and if the answer is to just bugger off, well, back to lurking for me

Greetings and Welcome to CPF! :wave:

:thinking:

Take a look at the Jet II I.B.S.
Doesn't fit your wish list perfectly, but get's pretty close.

NDI, D10.
But only just over an hour of run time.

From fenix the l2d except for length. p2d except for batt type. How about the l1d?

The Nitecores, Fenixes(go for the Cree ones), Jetbeams, and Olights sound like a good option(for AA/AAAs). 8% off coupon at 4sevens/Fenix Store is "CPF8".

For around 100 lumen, expect around 1 hour for 1 AA and around 2-3 hours for 2 AA.

How muchg abuse will the light get?

:welcome:

Welcome, Shore08. Lots of good lights out there. Just from my experience, I'd look at the Fenix L1D (1 AA) for a good $50-60 light. You can also get 2AA and 1CR123 body tubes that use the same head. If your pockets are a bit deeper the Surefire L1 Cree (1 CR123) is very nice, and would take more abuse.

Good light hunting.

Geoff

Hey gang, thanks for the quick replies. Now I've got some good starting points. Any other suggestions?


As for the question of how much abuse it will take, it will routinely be 100 feet in the air, crawling along the ground, taken into burning buildings, jumping out of windows/off roofs (bailing out), etc. Granted it will be in my pocket under turnout gear, but it will still take some abuse even with that protection. I don't expect indestructible but I would like something that can keep up. My department does a ton of training, so even if we don't make a bad call, we will still likely do some tough work.

The nitecores are looking pretty good, I'll have to do some further research on those.

I also really like the Jetbeams II pro w/ the IBS.

A quick question about batteries... it seems like the off the shelf AA/AAA are not going to put out as much ooomph as the CR123's (please correct me if I'm getting my terminology wrong) but the CR123's don't seem to be terribly expensive. With some good planning I could keep a supply of them on hand for when batteries are needed I suppose.

Bearing that in mind, if I do away with the AA/AAA requirement, does that change anyone's suggestions?

With the AA/AAA requirement, my top suggestion would be the NiteCore D10, though I expect the Fenix L1D, or similar lights from other manufacturers (Liteflux, Jetbeam, etc.) would also do well. From your description of needs, I think the D10 would fit the bill great, though I've read a number of reports that it lets in a little water when completely submerged (I doubt splashes/raindrops/etc. would have much if any effect). The only thing I don't know about the D10 is how durable it is in real use. I've seen many a torture test for, say, the Fenix T1 (not quite a light you seem to be looking for), but I haven't seen any such tests on the D10/EX10.

If you lift the AA/AAA requirement, then my top recommendation is the SureFire L1. I'd easily trust my life to this light, and I'd expect that it would survive a 100 ft fall with minor cosmetic damage at the most. Also, my L1 is noticeably brighter than my D10, for what it's worth. I could rant about other reasons that I love this light, but I won't subject you to that unless you really want the full list.

As to batteries, you'll get pretty great performance out of just about any quality LED light on the market. Alkaline batteries do, however, deliver noticeably less runtime at full power. My D10, for example, gets about 45 minutes at full output on an alkaline AA, and an hour and 20 minutes or more on a lithium AA. Of course, I got the D10 specifically so I'd have a light that could take mainstream (alkaline) batteries in a pinch. That said, if you plan ahead (i.e., buy a sufficient quantity online), you'd likely never have a problem with a CR123 light. After all, quality CR123's cost about the same online as alkaline AA's do in supermarkets.

There are several lights that meet your size, output, and runtime criteria. I would suggest you expand your price range slightly to encompass lights up to the $130ish range. This would allow you to consider lights such as the Surefire L1 and Novatac EDC 120E. Both of these run on a single lithium CR123A cell and have multiple levels. The Novatac has 10/42/120 lumen levels (as well as a strobe), while the Surefire has 10/65 lumen levels. The interfaces are quite different, however. With the Surefire, if you want the 10 lumen level, press the button a little bit. If you want the 65 lumen level, depress it fully. You must turn the tailswitch in order to have constant on light at either level. The Novatac uses an interface that lets you switch levels by using simple sequences of clicks with no twisting necessary. Of the two lights, the Surefire has been around longer (the L1 has been updated roughly 4 times) but the Novatac has also been shown very reliable.

Both lights are very popular here, and you can find many, many reviews of each. I hope this helps your search. FWIW, I volunteer for a rescue squad, and am working on my EMT-B. I've found that between my single level (120 lumen only) Surefire E2DL and my Nitecore EX10 (variable output from 3 to roughly 130 lumens) most of my needs are covered. I feel that I could easily use either of the two lights I suggested to you to replace these two for use on scene.

Edited to add: Nearly all of my lights use CR123A cells. Not only do they have great energy density, but it is easy to carry spares, and, at least in my area, the LEOs have a ready supply of 123's. This means, to me, that if my light dies on scene I've got a better chance of finding someone with spare 123's than AA/AAA.

I've just spent my day off today reading about possible replacements for my Novatac 120T and I still don't think I would get something better overall, for my purposes, with a Fenix, Nightcore, Jet Beam, or Surefire.

Most are brighter, which is a big deal to me but consider the 120T:

It is saltwaterproof--sweat or ocean, I've subjected mine to both.

Big, fat button that sticks way out--probably works with heavy firefighting gloves better than any other button.

Will not just die suddenly--the light level will keep stepping down to prevent the light from going dead as the battery drains.

Best reliability of any small light I've owned, but others on CPF have reported problems.

The lowest light level (.3 lumens) is the one I use the most for night vision preservation and stealth at work. It would be great for movie theaters and restaurants, too. No other light I'm aware of goes this low. The 120P goes down to .08 lumens, but has a flush mounted tailcap button--i.e. harder to press with gloves. When I need super bright light, I'll just use a big light cannon like a High Intensity Discharge or Surefire M6.

I buy CR123's online, like everybody here, at $1.50-2 each. My supervisor recently handed me a Surefire 12 pack from the supply room (he grabbed 2 for his Gladius), so I'm set for a while. Maybe your department has a supply of CR123's you can liberate? Or do a favor for some cops and they might be able to pull some out of their gear bags. At least deduct the cost on your taxes.

The light you ask for is the comming Ra Clicky.
-Bit wider body , still pretty short
-can be programmed to have 1 , 2, 3, or 4 light levels between just a light glim and 170 lumens
-waterproof to 20m
-shiny bezel and locator flash
-gun compatible shock mounted battery and glass lens
- about 200 dollars
- dimms down gently when battery is low
- steel bezel usable as impact weapon

etc etc.. It`s what you are looking for!

P.s. uses cr123 which are better temperature resistant and have 3 volt pretty good.:twothumbs

One user suggested the Jetbeam II IBS. It is a serious thrower with a small hotspot and very little flood and a very short runtime on high (but can be set at other levels for better runtime). It also has a large head so is not the most pocketable. I like the light but I don't think that is what you are looking for. Closest fit would be either a Nitecore D10, EX10, Extreme or a Novatac 120 Tactical or 120P with a tactical tailcap. Indestructible and the only problem I recall being reported on the Novatac has not shown up on any of 3 I own and it was a somewhat CPF style nit-picky thing regarding a flicker when going from high to the lowest level. The one thing about it that doesn't quite fit your bill is it uses CR123 or RCR123. You WILL see more brightness with this battery type than AA Alkalines or AA NiMH in lights in general. I'd strongly recommend getting a handful of CR123's online (anywhere from around $1.00 for cheap ones to maybe $1.75 or $2.00 each for some of the best brands) and then getting a charger and a few AW RCR123's so you can play and not worry about expense. Just carry a few of your CR123 primaries along with you in case. Also note some RCR123 chargers can run off of 12 volt car lighters.

If you really want the Ultimate EDC though and can get up the nerve to dish out around $200 then the Ra Clicky by Henry (who designed the Novatac and Arc 4+) promises to be the best of the best and will likely out do the Novatac in a number of ways including a brighter burst mode.
And :welcome:

Wow, lots of great responses and thoughts here. Please keep them coming, I really do appreciate the help! I think the worst part is that now I have to wait until XMAS unless I can convince her to get it for me early :devil:

I am really leaning towards the Jet I Pro IBS.

http://www.bugoutgearusa.com/jetipro.html

I like the size and features, the clip is nice, the button looks good, and I think it is an attractive overall light (hey, why lie, that stuff matters too ).

The fact that it will run off an AA battery in addition to the Li-Ion batteries is a plus. However after doing a bit more research, I am starting to wish this light was available with the option to run the CR-123's. The Jet Pro II (http://www.bugoutgearusa.com/jetiipro.html)has that option, but doesn't seem like quite as pocketable of a light. The two lights are pretty comparable otherwise IMO.

Once again, thanks for the help and if anyone has any more advice, I am all ears!

A couple other notes on some lights I've seen mentioned here. Fenix - smooth body outside on most and a somewhat hard to push small button - that's not going to work for some of the things you mention. While very popular here I don't like a number of things that have been left unresolved in the earlier models - like PWM flicker and not working in low modes when using rechargeables. I own several and like them for what they are - one of the best runtimes because of an efficient driver a bright turbo mode and generally nice quality but the two issues mentioned are not acceptable to me any more. I consider the Olight to be a 'better' Fenix but it is a smaller hot brighter hot spot and better UI while still maintaining fair flood. The pocket ones are still smooth and may be hard to press the button with gloves. The new Olights also work correctly on rechargeables. Also I don't believe I mentioned the Nitecore Defender Infinity - a AA light that can use either NiMH, Alkaline or Li-Ions and has a tactical easy to push tail switch. You might want to study this earlier model Nitecore also. I'd say any number of Nitecore's or Novatac are your top contenders. Novatacs can be found online for under $100 in some models but expect to pay close to $120 for the programmable model. Tactical model you might get at right around $100.
I was blocked a while here by the 'server busy' so now that I've seen your last response I'll add this too. In the past the Jetbeam has had a LOT of issues and was the only light I had 3 of and had 3 problems. I got rid of them all. Only recently when I got the Jet II IBS was I glad to own a Jetbeam. But this light (at least the Jet II) is a very tightly focused thrower and the focus function it does have is not that great IMO. I like it but it would not be a primary EDC. I don't own the Jet I Pro so I can't much about it - check CPF member 'selfbuilt' for his excellent reviews on this light and similar.

matrixshaman said:

A couple other notes on some lights I've seen mentioned here. Fenix - smooth body outside on most and a somewhat hard to push small button - that's not going to work for some of the things you mention. While very popular here I don't like a number of things that have been left unresolved in the earlier models - like PWM flicker and not working in low modes when using rechargeables.

Click to expand...

I have none of these problems with my Fenixes.
The button is the same size as many other flashlights (including Olight).
The only button I have problems pressing, is on some of my Olights, they are very hard to press.
The only Fenix with pwm is the L0D.
Fenix has no problem using NiMH, but are not designed for LiIon batteries (But they works in P3D).

Matrix -

I did just stumble onto Selfbuilts reviews, and I think I could lose a whole day going through them. They are very in depth and a great resource.

I am glad you mentioned the problems with the Jetbeams, it seems others have had issues too judging from some of the remarks on Selfbuilts threads. I suppose the hunt is still on for me then, I'll go check out the 2 lights you mentioned.

HKJ -

Thanks for the flip side to Matrix's remarks, it is always nice to hear a second opinion.

I guess the next option is to look for a local dealer and see if I can get my hands on any of these. Thanks guys! Please keep the info coming!

lumenlover2 said:

The light you ask for is the comming Ra Clicky.
-Bit wider body , still pretty short
-can be programmed to have 1 , 2, 3, or 4 light levels between just a light glim and 170 lumens
-waterproof to 20m
-shiny bezel and locator flash
-gun compatible shock mounted battery and glass lens
- about 200 dollars
- dimms down gently when battery is low
- steel bezel usable as impact weapon

etc etc.. It`s what you are looking for!

P.s. uses cr123 which are better temperature resistant and have 3 volt pretty good.:twothumbs

Click to expand...

I couldn't agree more with this idea. This light is going to be AMAZING.

I would love to be able to say I'm going with the RA clicky, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be able to talk the BH into a $200 light on the first go round

I am coming back around to the NiteCore SmartPD EX 10

https://www.4sevens.com/product_info.php?cPath=93&products_id=535

I really like the functionality of the interface. Being able to change modes 1 handed is a huge plus. I like the looks of the Extreme, and having the clip would be nice, but I prefer the other interface style.

Oh, and after spending time around here, I am looking at the model with the CR123A batteries instead of the AA. I hope you are all happy

Thanks again guys.