NovaTac improvements coming, or is it RA Lights all the way?

I balked at the Botach sale, seductive as it was. $110 for the EDC-120P, plus 10% off on LaborDay. That means $110 shipped, essentially. That's a fantastic price for this light. However, I already have one and would rather wait until a newer version comes out.

I'm not so much interested in an increase in lumens so much as an increase in battery longevity and an elimination of PWM at the 2 lowest settings. But it seems NovaTac still has no announcement on any improvements. Unless someone else knows otherwise?

I hadn't gotten in on the RA Lights threads, but have now read up a little. It seems that they've gone ahead and made those improvements that NovaTac should get around to. I prefer the smaller NovaTac form factor, and certainly the price is a bit more attractive from several channels presently available (Botach, YourCornerStore, etc). But if you take an existing NovaTac and invest in the effort to upgrade the emitter (voiding any warranty), the RA Light is a better deal.

Good choice avoiding Botach - you probably would have been lucky to get a light at all. Henry who designed the Novatac, HDS, Arc4+, Ra Twisty and Ra Clicky no longer works with Novatac so I wouldn't look for any improvements or upgrades there in the near future. Since Novatacs seem to be selling everywhere and selling a lot I doubt they have much reason to change anything major. I expect the Ra Clicky will be an improvement in many ways over the Novatac - with a higher price of course than Novatacs are available for now. But if you want the latest and greatest you'll probably want the Ra.

There is nothing wrong with the Novatac-its a great little light, but the RA is definately a step up, I think Henry has fixed the problems that persisted in some of the Novatacs - as Novatac just bought the light and not the engineer I can not see it improving, if you can afford it go for the Ra, if not then the Novatac is damn fine and damn tough!

There's a NovaTac in my pocket now. It's the most useful light I've ever owned. So, I'm not going to trash NovaTacs. However, other than changing the color, I haven't seen hint of any real improvements.

Also, I think that with double the runtime on High at $230, the HDS compares well with the $180 (list price) for the NT 120p.

If I were starting over now, I'm not sure I'd buy a NovaTac.

Just one man's opinion.

As the others said, the current NovaTacs are excellent lights, overall, but I think most of us have lost all faith in them as a company.

iTorch said:

There is nothing wrong with the Novatac-its a great little light, but the RA is definately a step up, I think Henry has fixed the problems that persisted in some of the Novatacs - as Novatac just bought the light and not the engineer I can not see it improving, if you can afford it go for the Ra, if not then the Novatac is damn fine and damn tough!

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I also agree, it's a great light. The UI is a little complicated at first, but once you understand it it's difficult to forget the usage settings (for the programming steps beyond intensity adjustment, I need to refer to the manual if I haven't used them for a few months). The versatility is simply excellent to have. It's not the brightest 1xCR123 light around, but the programming makes up for it. I also like the design--deceptively ergonomic. And if you're not in need of a covert tactical application, polishing up the bezel to a bright stainless steel shine makes it look pretty amazing. Of course the RA lights feature a nice larger stainless bezel. I'm also impressed by the environmental strengthening that RA has put into their version, as well as the longer runtimes.

You mention problems that have persisted in the Novatacs. As far as I've been able to learn so far, there's the threads issue (frequent and repeated battery changes wear out the threads if you don't lube them enough) and the PWM on the 2 lowest settings. Anything else?


As for Botach, I have seen some horror stories posted on CPF. My own personal experience has been good. They've sent me everything I've ordered with no mistakes, twice. One order took a few weeks longer than expected, but for the price break it was tolerable. Still... I do agree it is unnerving to take a chance with Botach when spending a lot of money or buying more than just a few items (I've heard reports that they'll sometimes backorder a number of items without letting you know and then let the items sit pending for a long period while they hold onto your money).

xevious said:

You mention problems that have persisted in the Novatacs. As far as I've been able to learn so far, there's the threads issue (frequent and repeated battery changes wear out the threads if you don't lube them enough) and the PWM on the 2 lowest settings.

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As far as I know, all HDS-designed lights have used PWM on the lowest settings (and it extends past just the first two levels, at least on the NT), probably including the latest Ra offerings. I'm not sure about the Ras because it's never discussed due to the fact that it's never been a significant issue with either past or present versions of this light family; offhand, I can't even remember ever hearing a real complaint about it, though there may be a few. Also, on the lowest setting, the NT is faster than the old HDSes, fast enough that I really have to move it quickly while looking into it to notice it. In the case of the NT, it's the fastest PWM I've ever seen that's still detectable at all, fast enough that few should notice it in use. PWM is definitely not a serious problem for the NT, especially compared to many cheaper lights. You refer to it like an accepted problem, are you sure you don't mean the flickering issue? I assume that must be it since no list of NT issues is at all complete without it, it's gripe numero uno. That's a legitimate flaw in the light and is not directly related to PWM, though I suppose it's possible it could be somehow caused by a bug related to how the PWM is implemented.

Hmmmm... well, doesn't sound like much of a problem. My NovaTac EDC-120P exhibits some noticeable PWM at the 1st and 2nd intensity settings, but it's nothing really awful. The settings are usable, but I find the 3rd setting is low enough for my purposes--I have one memory slot on that level and no PWM is noticeable to me.

xevious said:

Hmmmm... well, doesn't sound like much of a problem. My NovaTac EDC-120P exhibits some noticeable PWM at the 1st and 2nd intensity settings, but it's nothing really awful. The settings are usable, but I find the 3rd setting is low enough for my purposes--I have one memory slot on that level and no PWM is noticeable to me.

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Well your PWM might not be bad but mine and many others were so bad it took them sending three more lights to me before i got one that was kinda OK.It didn't bother me so much that they had a problem with there light but that they KNEW they had one and still put it into production. Not good

thermal guy said:

Well your PWM might not be bad but mine and many others were so bad it took them sending three more lights to me before i got one that was kinda OK.It didn't bother me so much that they had a problem with there light but that they KNEW they had one and still put it into production. Not good

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Thermal - Was the problem you had definitely just one of noticeable PWM? I'm curious because my light occasionally exhibits two different but similar problems when the battery gets low: the lowest levels pulse like very slow PWM (too slow to be intentional, I'd say) and level 12 flickers, but somewhat irregularly like it's receiving random surges of power, especially when dropping from full power. The low level pulsing seems to only happen sometimes when the battery is very low. The flickering on 12 seems to start when I've got a day or two of normal use left and, at first at least, it tends to go away after a few seconds.

As I'd understood it, what I experience on 12 is the flickering issue that so many complain about and that NT says they can't fix, except most seem to complain about it on ".33lm and below" instead of primarily on a specific higher level (so maybe most only have the first issue I mentioned then... ). I figured the pulsing on lower levels was a manifestation of this same flickering problem but in a more advanced stage of battery drain. Perhaps they actually are two separate but similar issues, both with a connection to power level, one a flickering and one a result of the PWM breaking down?

Also, I'm not sure they had much of a choice in putting the light into production as is. They lost their designer before all the bugs had been worked out and maybe, for whatever reason, just didn't have anyone else able to polish the design into the intended finished product.

SaturnNyne said:

Thermal - Was the problem you had definitely just one of noticeable PWM? I'm curious because my light occasionally exhibits two different but similar problems when the battery gets low: the lowest levels pulse like very slow PWM (too slow to be intentional, I'd say) and level 12 flickers, but somewhat irregularly like it's receiving random surges of power, especially when dropping from full power. The low level pulsing seems to only happen sometimes when the battery is very low. The flickering on 12 seems to start when I've got a day or two of normal use left and, at first at least, it tends to go away after a few seconds.

As I'd understood it, what I experience on 12 is the flickering issue that so many complain about and that NT says they can't fix, except most seem to complain about it on ".33lm and below" instead of primarily on a specific higher level (so maybe most only have the first issue I mentioned then... ). I figured the pulsing on lower levels was a manifestation of this same flickering problem but in a more advanced stage of battery drain. Perhaps they actually are two separate but similar issues, both with a connection to power level, one a flickering and one a result of the PWM breaking down?

Also, I'm not sure they had much of a choice in putting the light into production as is. They lost their designer before all the bugs had been worked out and maybe, for whatever reason, just didn't have anyone else able to polish the design into the intended finished product.

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You are right it most likely was not PWM it was just the flickering problem that they had were aware of and could not fix it did it on my first light from .33LM on down my second and third were better but soon started to do the same thing even with new cells in her the last one they gave me did it only on the two lowest settings.It just kinda bugs me that they sent them out knowing there was a problem.Yes they lost the MAN that designed it but that was because he wanted to fix that problem and several more and was basically told it was fine as is IMO if a light or for that matter any product is not up to spec and not doing what it was designed to do then you fix it make it right then ship.Thats why Henry takes the time he does to get his lights out the door and why we as flashlight nuts are glad he does.

I agree with a lot of what has been said here. Between the two I would go with the Ra. Henry actively posts here and answers questions and it's comforting to own a light and be able to correspond with its designer.

Customizable, easy to mod , fairly priced, compact, decent programing and designed by the same guy that brought us the HDS line?? If you ask me apart from a few flickers and other minor issues, Novatac hit a home-run with this light and I doubt they will change a thing. Most people are happy with the light has it is, myself included. I wanted a Ra Clicky , but its just too big for my tastes. Ill prolly get a Twisty in the near future for the dual color thing..

matrixshaman said:

Good choice avoiding Botach - you probably would have been lucky to get a light at all.

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If you are basing this on a few years ago, they have long since cleaned up their act. Their prices are good and their customer service is great. Zero problems on 5 consecutive orders and I'm NOT the only one. I did have a defective product and they sent a prepaid shipping label immediately and shipped me a new product. Botach need not be avoided anymore.