M3 or Ultrafire WF500

How do these to lights compare, i like the SF M3 but cant justify the extra $$ for how much use i am going to get out of the flashlight. How much light would the following setup produce compared with a SF M3 with the M11 225 Lumes bulb in it.?

I though if i got a Ultrafire WF500 with AW 18650 Protected bats and LF HO-R5 9v 630 Lumens Bulb and a WF-139 charger all for under $100 , bang for my buck would this be the best option? compared to a $200 + SF M3.

I just want to be able to see cleary to at least 50m+.

Nic

get the Ultrafire and you'll be impressed :thumbsup:
I got the WF-600 which is pretty similar, and it really turns the night into day
you can still get a surefire sometime but the Ultrafire should give you a whole lot of lumens for a really good price :welcome:

Welcome to CPF MR-STI!

Its difficult to fairly compare these 2 brands of flashlights.

The Surefire is built up to standard rather than down to a price, whereas the Ultrafire is built down to a budget rather than up to a standard, as witnessed by the wide variances in build quality and finish.

I own the 2 of them I can tell you that the Ultrafire will produce more light at 50m than the Surefire, no doubt about that. However the Surefire is FAR more reliable and better built.

If you are into flashlights as a hobby, than perhaps the Ultrafire is better suited to your budget.

However if you are in the armed forces or law enforcement where your life and the life of others depend on the equipment you use, you will be so much better off with the Surefire.

I guess its like asking yourself which is the better car? The Subaru Impreza STI or the BMW M3??? It all depends on your budget and how you're going to use it.

aurora wf-600 is my recomendation

If you're in law enforcment the M3 is THE perfect duty light, at least in my opinion. Great balance of size, weight, light output, and not to mention the SF reliability. But if you just want something bright and reliability is not an issue, consider the UF. I've never owned any UF's myself, but they seem to be of decent quality from what I read here.

Hey guys thanks for the replies.

What is the difference between the 500 and the 600, just the bulb?

No im not in law enforcement im on a farm and just want it as a general purpose light i can cart around in the ute with me. It might get taken to chase pigs, or varmint humming around the sheds, camping , stuff like that.

So what reliabilty problems are there with this light ?.

Nic

there are no reliability problems with this specific light but surefire flashlights are generally considered more reliable than other brands, especially cheap chinese lights like ultrafire because they are very well built and designed and thats also one of the reasons they're so expensive
e g the M series have a shock isolation to protect the bulb

MR-STI,

Have to agree with everything that's been posted so far --- especially regarding Surefire's build quality --- but I just want to make a couple of additional points.

I have a SF M3, SF M3T and Ultrafire WF500. I use all of them fairly extensively, and am extremely pleased with each.

Through the summer months I walk my dog's about an hour each evening in an urban setting. There are still lot's of dark areas ---- an unlit trail along the river --- unlit alleys behind some of the shopping centers --- under a bridge where teenagers like to hang out and paint graffiti --- and also lots of skunks. I almost always grab the M3 for those walks because of the size. I don't like to have to fish my lights in and out of a holster while I'm trying to hold onto a Rottweiler and Chocolate Lab. The M3 drops nicely into the pocket on the side of my shorts --- easy to get in and out and not too heavy or annoying banging against my leg. The M3 has plenty of throw and flood for the distances involved in this setting, and there are lot's of bulb options from Surefire and Lumens factory. The M3T and WF500 also fit very adequately --- but they're definetely bigger and heavier --- and slightly more annoying to carry. The increased throw from the M3T and WF500 aren't necessary in this setting, so I usually don't take them along. Throughout the winter I walk the dog's in the local state park --- dozen's of miles of horse, hiking and mountain bike trails. It gets dark here at 5 p.m. --- so I often find myself 6 or 7 miles back in the woods in darkness. I carry the lights in my coat pocket so size and weight really aren't as big a consideration --- and throw means everything to me out in the woods. In the winter, I almost always have the M3T or WF500 as one of my lights.

Anyway, the point of all that was that depending on how you're going to use your light --- size, weight, "carryability" and throw might be a factor. My WF500 throws farther than my M3 but not quite as far as my M3T.

As far as light output is concerned, I find the WF500 to be slightly less than an M3T with an M16 (Surefire high output lamp assembly). I often compare the two side by side out in the woods --- and I always come away thinking the WF500 is so close that it just makes it an amazing value --- well worth the price.

If you're comparing the stock M3, M3T and WF500 then battery type becomes a very significant factor in usability and cost of operation. The WF500 allows you to use 2 x 18650 or 2 x 18500 rechargeable's. I generally use 2 x LG 2600mAh 18650's. My measurements usually yield a 2.7 to 2.9 amp draw on fresh cells for the stock Ultrafire bulb --- or roughly 53 minutes of operation --- compared to 20 minutes for the the MN16 on three 123 primaries. There are still LeefBody C Tail M Head 2x18650 Battery or 4x123 Batterytubes available for the M3 or M3T at Lighthound --- but it adds an additional 61.99 to the price. I didn't see any 2 x 18500 battery tubes currently in stock. You can use 2 x 17500 rechargeable li-ions ---- but the high output Surefire bulbs are pushing them in excess of 2C ---- the max limit most find acceptable --- I won't run the high output lamps on 2 x 17500's. If you're comparing the MN10 or the MN15 to the WF500 stock bulb, the WF500 is the clear cut winner in terms of output. The greater output may or may not be what you need or are looking for.

I absolutely love the Surefire's and am glad I own them --- but if you could only have one I'd have to recommend the Ultrafire WF500. I just can't say the Surefire's additional cost is justified. If your life is going to depend on the light --- get the Surefire.

A couple of caveat's --- I have to use a magnet to make reliable contact between battery positive and the head end of the battery tube in my WF500, and depending on your batteries you may have to use one between the two batteries --- I use leef Magnets which have a protective washer and pose no threat as a possible short --- if you don't have protected magnets a short can represent a significant and dangerous threat for unprotected li-ions. The battery tube on my WF500 is short --- my unprotected LG 18650's work, but my protected Pila's do not, YOU MAY NOT BE ABLE TO USE PROTECTED 18650'S IN YOUR WF500. Many people have reported reliability issues with the stock Ultrafire bulb ---- mine has been fine ---- at the very least Lumensfactory offers an alternative.

One last item ---- I was sliding my M3T in my pocket when the lab spotted a deer and took off like a rocket --- the M3T landed on rocks and it marred the bezel and tailcap --- absolutely made me sick. If I dropped the WF500 I wouldn't necessarily be happy ---- but it sure wouldn't be the end of the world.

Wow, good post therisensun!

It does seem to me that the decision is already made due to the price range you're in and I'm sure the WF500 would suit all your needs.


Just thought I'd mention that if I was purchasing a light for general purposes around a farm, camping or chasing varmints from around the shed, I'd seriously take a look at the N30 from Battery Junction.

http://www.batteryjunction.com/n30-3161.html

It's not in the same size class as the other lights but either is the performance at 3200 lumens. Even though it's larger, it's still only a 3.5" reflector so it's not enormous or anything. It will throw a beam well over 400 yards and has the additional feature of 7 long run LED pointed forward in the handle. It's also as tuff as nails and survives rough treatment with ease and provides great run-time. I've owned one since they were released and absolutely love it. Not trying to throw you off track, but I'd say it's worth a look.

If you are looking for a quality alternative to a M3 you should have a look at wolf-eyes products. They are based around compatibility with 18mm diameter li-ion cells and you can buy full kits with charger and rechargeable cells for less than the cost of an M3.

Having said that, there is something special about owning a high end SureFire.

OK so i have been doing a bit of looking around on CPF and have seen some LED's like the Tiablo A9 and a few others the same size and specs and they are very impressive and they only need 1 18650 battery, shine over 200m, how do the M3 and the WF 500 compare with these light for what i want to do with them. I know they are a different type of light and the incandescent provides more contrast but for those little LED's that is very impressive. I have never seen a WF 500 or a M3 in action to compare them with a LED.

As for the wolfeyes i have a bit of a look on the ozzie website and the Raider 380 or the Rattlesnake 700 look ok, anybody used these lights?.

I would buy a M3 at the drop of a hat if it i could use 18650 bats in it as it is, but im not prepared to buy the light then spend another $60-$100 to get the gear to do so.

Nic

First off therisensun, excellent post.

I'm relatively new here as well, but will throw in my two cents. MR-STI, here's my take on it, in addition to what so many others have already posted. If at all possible, FEEL them both in your hands, and make your decision after you've done that. All too often I've made a purchase, only to find out that it's not as cool in person as it looked online, or in a catalog, or whatever the case.

Personally, I've got a SF M3, M6, Z2 w/ M60, ShadeSlayer, Novatacs, Pentagon MolleLights, and an assortment of many others, and I constantly find myself always going to the M3 for my Go-To light. My take on the form factor of the M3 is it just feels PERFECT in my hands, but that's what you need to determine for yourself. Yeah, it won't take 18650's, but 2x17500's are no problem. And with the EO-M3 LA, I can still use 3x123 primaries, which I keep plenty of in my BOB. But that's what you've got to figure out for yourself, what will suit YOUR needs the best.

The beauty of this hobby is there's something for everyone's budget and preferences. I don't own any Ultrafire's, but can certainly attest to the Surefire's build quality, top notch from top to bottom. Good luck in your decision.

Yes, I had the Raider and have the Rattlesnake, I also have a number of other WE lights. The WE option would be the middle of the ground compromise between the SF and UF lights. The advantage of the WE lights over the SF is that they take the 18650 cells, the advantage of the WE lights over the UF is that they are used by a good number of goverment agencies. Also WE can be considered to be a "lego" type system with many options available. I have many lights and play with all of them but I always come back to the WE when I get serious.

The best value for money is the Surefire M3. Why? Because of its flexibilty to lego the flashlight into almost anything you want with the aftermarket accessories available from Surefire, Leef, FM, Milky, LumensFactory etc... The same cannot be said of the WF-500, you're basically stuck with the same light.

If you purchase the M3 and find that its not to your needs, you can sell it on CPF or ebay and get back most if not all your money. Try that with the WF-500, you'd be lucky to get even half of what you paid.

If you live on a farm, I recommend having an incandescent over a LED especially out in the fields and/or during rain and fog. The colour rendition at extended ranges(30yds+) of incands would be much better suited for those conditions.

Go for the M3, it is a light worth getting! So many CPFers on his forum cannot be wrong!

If you want an M3 type light, but really want 18mm li-ion cell compatibility, I'd be tempted to post a "WTB: leefbody 2x18500 C - M" over in BST and see if you can get ahold of one, if you can, then just pick up a Z46 bezel (this is the M3 "head") and a surefire compatible tailcap. (like a Z48).

After paying for those pieces you'll have spent less than you would have on an M3 at MSRP, take the extra, and buy a few lamps to play with, a Pila IBC charger, and a few AW brand protected 18500 cells...

As for the LED throwers- yes they are impressive. They are in the same lumen's ballpark as the lower powered lamps for an M3, like the MN10, and HO-M3. They will still be shining hours after the incan has gone dead. My personal feeling is that you should probably have one as a BACKUP to your incan light, since incan bulbs can still fail at any time, especially when dropped. However, if your intended use is outdoors an M3 or similar category light would certainly have some serious advantages. Many of us have found that LED light seems to really get washed out and "soaked" up in many outdoor enciroments.

--------------------------------

On another note, say for instance, you had an M3 budget, but this was going to be the only "cpf approved" (performance) light you were going to own, I'd personally recommend owning 2 or 3 alternative lights that can ALL be purchased inside of the budget of the M3. There is no substitute for backups. I'm thinking like a combination of like an 18650 powered LED thrower, a wolf-eyes M90, and maybe something else, not sure, either way, maybe trying to keep them all based on 18650 cells.

Eric

MR-STI said:

I would buy a M3 at the drop of a hat if it i could use 18650 bats in it as it is, but im not prepared to buy the light then spend another $60-$100 to get the gear to do so.

Nic

Click to expand...

No such gear exists. The M3 takes three CR123 primary cells. An 18650 is as long as two CR123 cells. Two 18650 cells = 4xCR123 cells.

If you wanted to convert an M4 into being 18650 compatable, it's rather easy. I did just that by getting a custom Leef body. (2x18650, C-tail to M-head, body). Since I didn't already own an M4, it was quite expensive getting all of the other needed parts.... Even though I was lucky to have found a used model M4 in great condition on B/S/T that was being sold off in individual parts. My Leef-bodied M4 is rechargeable, but is now a 9v. light when using 18650s in it; instead of 12v. with primaries.

Rechargeable M3 would require two 18500 cells. You could get an M3 along with a 2x18500, C-tail to M-head Leef body from Lighthound.com; but you lose the use of the grip-ring and it's a bit of a pricey option.

An Ultrafire light is fine, if you're mainly interested in output. As far as reliability goes, I'm not saying it will fail on you after a while. But if that actually happens, don't be overly surprised.

mdocod said:

If you want an M3 type light, but really want 18mm li-ion cell compatibility, I'd be tempted to post a "WTB: leefbody 2x18500 C - M" over in BST....

Eric

Click to expand...

I type about as quickly as a drowsy snail. :shakehead

Sorry Eric, didn't see your post until after I posted mine.

MR-STI said:

OK so i have been doing a bit of looking around on CPF and have seen some LED's like the Tiablo A9 and a few others the same size and specs and they are very impressive and they only need 1 18650 battery, shine over 200m, how do the M3 and the WF 500 compare with these light for what i want to do with them. Nic

Click to expand...

I have a G&P R500 (LF HO-R5 & UCL lens) and a MRV (Q5, UCL, SMO), roughly comparable to a WF 500 & A9. The R500 puts out way more light compared to the MRV. The MRV outhrows it but, really isn't that useful or practical. With the OP reflector the MRV's beam is a closer match, but not nearly as bright or as revealing as the R500 incandescent.

Yes it seems the M3 is the overwhelming favourite by a mile. And then a LED for backup. So if i can piece together a m3 that would be great.

OK so i have been looking at the z46 bezel, i can find them for around $50, but does that come with the reflector as well or do i have to buy that seperate??.

Any specific brand of tail cap??

And i guess if i go with the standard m3 head a LF H0-M3 buld would be good?

I guess another question is, if i bought a M3 and run it on AW 17500 would it power the LF HO-M3 320lumen bulb??

I never though buying a flashlight would be so complicated :thinking: Thanks heaps for everyones imput so far, it is much appreciated.

Nic

My 2 cent Get the wf 500 by some extra bulbs 2 protected 18670 a charger and try it out if it's not what you want then by the expensive light
all you lost is like 25-35 $ right