Extremely bright, affordable, and complex--but why haven't i kept any?

The past couple of years have been an interesting time for flashlight enthusiasts. A lot of us remember when lights like the lionheart came out and were way ahead of anything from anybody else in terms of refinement, output and reliability. While the first and last of these qualities remain true, output has increased ten fold in the last couple of years with some lights leading the curve in terms of output and cool tricky modes. It seems that old-school flashaholism is falling away and being replaced by a new generation of flashaholics who want more light, more modes, more edges, more sharp bezels, etc. China has answered with lights like dereelight, raidfire spears, Olights, Tiablos, and Fenix's that dwarf lights from yesterday in literally every category. If somebody had said to me that we would see 250 lumens from a single LED in just three years, it would have been difficult to believe but also very exciting. Unfortunately, the appeal of these lights lasted (for me) about one week. My first light was a TIROS X03 that put out a claimed 65 lumens, but was tested at closer to 40. When I first got it I was absolutely blown away by how much light it put out, and how great the color was for seing objects in their true light, but now it is commonplace to see a light with one AAA alkaline battery absolutely murdering this Inova while doing it at half the price, with 5 times the modes. Product diffusion in the flashlight world has essentially desensitized me into feeling as though nothing is shocking, for instance, it would take a huge jump in brightness before I got excited about the amount of light coming from a single LED. I blame this on the fact that we keep on getting flashy new designs from Chinese manufacturer's that bring us the exact same thing over and over and over again. It's really taken the fun out of being a flashlight enthusiast IMO.

I guess all I'm trying to say is that I would like to see more manufacturer's take a "back to the basics" approach and bring us some practical, single-mode, simply designed (not overly textured), forward click lights that do the job without looking like something the sith would carry on his belt. I don't care if they're made in China or on planet Mars--Just make them...I would gladly pay more.

/rant

I'm sorry, but I don't get your point. I had to read your post three times, but still don't get it....

if you want something simple, you always can stick to the trusted old maglite brand. if you want more kick out of it, replace the bulb with an emitter, its that simple.

I really can't see why so many people are whining about all those "way too much modes" lights, if I don't like them I simply not use them - be it my dereelight DBS, my fenix's L1D, L2D, P2D or my newly arrived nitecore D10. one simple press of the tailswitch gives me maximum brightness, another simple press of the tailswitch brings back the darkness to night. and everything in between is an option that is nice to have, but it is only an option that I never have to use if I don't want to, so where is the problem ?

about the design of the lamps: personally I think the bigger (and heavier therefore) lights like a DBS for instance, are well designed for their purpose - not too slippery, not too smooth, but with good grip (especially with belt clip attached). I really can't see any "scifi style" in the design of my fenix or my nictecore lights, infact the D10 is IMO as straight as a EDC can be, with absolutely no gimmick/gadgetry. just my 2 cents


regards, holger

??? Simple, single mode lights as you describe are all over the place from Surefire, solarforce, Pelican, tek-tite, Romisen, Underwater Kinetics, T.O.P., streamlite, maglite...etc...

The remain less popular on CPF simply for their lack of flexibility as general purpose tools, although many do offer unique strengths to offset this. So its left to the consumer to vote with their wallet.

Forum members are like little moths buzzing around at night... they LOVE Lux and Lumens. Lets face it... who wouldn't want the power of the sun in their hands? Thats just the nature of the population, high Lux/Lumens earns the applause and hype. While lower Lumen products tend to get over-looked.

its nothing more than that.. and hardly worth ranting over

I think possibly the direction was to identify a light to follow the simplicity of the original Arc LS---something I'd hoped Peter was going to do but did not. I won't run out of my venerable LSs--I've a decent stash it seems--however, I won't give up on my constant quest for the innovative, more powerful lights either. By the way, I still EDC a First Run LS but... one modded with a reflector and LuxIII so.....



Karl

Uh, perhaps you feeling desensitized by evolution in this techie market is more a problem with you than with the market? What lights have you kept?

Single mode lights with momentaries (like this) haven't gone away, they're just dispersed among other types and perhaps more work to find, but I don't think that's bad overall, giving consideration to the cutting edge crowd.

Check out DX (Romisen G2)? If your pocketbook can stand it, you can always get a Surefire for simple single mode with forward clicky.

There was a period where a couple 5mm LED's were a revolution because you could get Minimag levels of light with much longer runtime. Before that there was the wow of CR123 based incans in comparison to what we had all become used to for years, if not decades. Then we got high flux emitters that were mostly only known about in the enthusiast market. Rapid growth led to a period of surprises. There was always a new brighter light that could produce a "wow."

Now though incans are still basically a mature tech, and LED's have stabilized. Even if new efficiency bins kept coming at the same rate, perceived light difference slows as we get brighter. LED's are already more than capable of providing more light than is ideal for many close range tasks. Any manufacturer can slap a high flux LED in a tube, drive it reasonably, and produce more light than what used to be a high end "tactical" light. Product differentiation, and innovation, seems to be moving to other areas. Meanwhile lights like you describe are starting to be more and more part of the commodity market available at a retailer near you for reasonable prices.

I personally like the movement to UI design and color rendition as areas of innovation. Although since reading this thread I want my Darth Maul double ended cree lightsaber. :touche:

I'm saying that all of these lights are the same thing: High, medium, low, SOS, Strobe. I kept all of my Inova lights save for the T1, which I think I should have kept. The only light I have that is multi-mode is the Fenix L0D Q4 which I rarely ever use. I hate having to sort through the modes just to get to the one mode I ever use which is the bright mode. I owned a Raidfire spear for a little while before I sold it, and sure it was cool and bright, but it was just another fancy toy from China that I would never bet my life on. I'm a major fan of Inovas and always have been, but I wish there were more companies like Inova in the US of A--our options are very limited, and the majority of the threads on CPF are dedicated to cheap lights coming from China.

Ilikeshinythings said:

I'm saying that all of these lights are the same thing: High, medium, low, SOS, Strobe. I kept all of my Inova lights save for the T1, which I think I should have kept. The only light I have that is multi-mode is the Fenix L0D Q4 which I rarely ever use. I hate having to sort through the modes just to get to the one mode I ever use which is the bright mode. I owned a Raidfire spear for a little while before I sold it, and sure it was cool and bright, but it was just another fancy toy from China that I would never bet my life on. I'm a major fan of Inovas and always have been, but I wish there were more companies like Inova in the US of A--our options are very limited, and the majority of the threads on CPF are dedicated to cheap lights coming from China.

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You gotta be joking... there are just as many USA made lights as anything else...

tek-tite
surefire
streamlite
mag
underwater kinetics
pelican

And thats just off the top of my head. Duracell even has a USA made light for $40. So the USA products are there if you know what to look for, most of which is single mode and designed to take the abuse. Do a forum search for any USA made brand, there are threads, commentary and reviews out there if you look.

There are also LOTS of overseas made single mode lights to pick from too.

Your rant holds no water.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that I'm on the fence with this issue but I've had some similar thoughts as the OP's.

Sometimes, especially here on the forums, it seems like the lights are nothing more than gadgets and not actual tools. I don't really care where the lights are made but it does seem, on occasion, that they are becoming more like toys for gadget geeks and that build quality is clearly secondary to MORE OUTPUT! DX lights are hugely popular and offer great output for a cheap price. I, myself, would rather save my $$ and buy a better quality light but there will always be a market for cheap, bright lights. If you line up a 75 lumen, $45 Fenix LOD along with a 100 lumen $15 DX "buckle" then you can guess which one will win the majority vote. Nevermind that they have like 20 minutes of runtime and aren't very durable/reliable, they are just fun toys to wow your friends with. It does seem like that takes priority over having a quality light sometimes. Just look at the number of threads like "what's the brightest light that uses X battery type?" Rarely is it the highest quality, mostly it's the brightest.

As for UI's, I'll admit to not being a fan of programmable lights but I don't care that they make them, I just won't buy one. They seem to be the rage, though, as it gives it way more gadget factor and is fun to play with. The last one that I owned kept forgetting it's program and I had to "reset" it just like my stupid computer..............not what I'd consider a dependable tool.

All in all, I don't care that the trend is going this way as long as the simple, high-quality lights are still out there for me to buy................

Try a Smart PD light, like the NiteCore EX10 / D10. Perhaps you just have not experienced the perfect light yet.

Is there something wrong with some flashlights being more gadgetry than tools? I'd think the guys that own several dozen flashlights each would be the last to complain about a broad range of lights for a broad range of uses, including enjoyment. Is a Pila Codex not a "serious" flashlight? The Data Bank 70?

Having jumped full depth into the flashlight world over the last several months after a 15 year hiatus away from high performance lights I can kinda get the jist of what the poster is trying to say. It seems that many of the higher quality lights have more features and possibly complicated UI's that may not be usable or desireable. BUT, its also true that there are plenty of simple, high quality lights that fufill the needs quite well and I have supplied some familiy and freinds with such lights. The first multimode light I bought was a single cell 123 driven Amlite with 2 LEVELS and a push to click on switch . Simple, bright and 2 modes low and high. I got some Fenix 1D's with the Q5 emitters and gave those to friends. Single aa light with a slightly more complex UI but good for an EDC for these people. The Amlite is on on my key chain lanyard and is with me most of the time and is used a lot. I then purchased and also carry a Wolf Eyes Angel-X , 3 mode light that gives me momentary and click on High, Med, Low settings. Small, simple, bright and easy to use and definetly high quality. The choices today are myriad but there is no doubt that if you look you will find a light that will meet your needs.

Certainly long discussions of UI details and, perhaps even, minutiae, around various lights can seem to be something of a discussion about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin at times. Such is the life of a flashaholic and an enthusiast - after all how much more can you say about a Surefire G2 LED (insert your favorite well made single mode light) other than it is built well, puts out a fair amount of light, works every time, etc... I think I get the gist as well, if not the entire sentiment since there ARE still plenty of well made single mode lights around if you want one (including some from some of the manufacturers listed - IIRC Dereelight sells a single mode drop in for the CL1H v3.0 and perhaps the 4.0 as well).

But I lived for a long time with a Photon Microlight on my keyring, an HDS B42XRGT and a Streamlight STrion as my only lights. Those three met nearly every need I had. But part of that was because the HDS was extremely versatile and in my opinion at the time, at least in terms of output, could replicate my ArcAAA, my Arc LSHP, plus a brighter max and a super low low that replaced my ArcAAA red as well. Without the multi levels I would have kept more single mode lights to cover the same bases - so the multi level light made a lot of sense from a practical standpoint - but certainly the same functionality could be replicated with a larger number of lights.

But the allure of chasing the technology has become tiresome for me as well on a certain level - as I've ended up back with a Novatac as my primary EDC light and most "reached for" light - which is brighter than the HDS that I sold but otherwise not much of a difference. And I've found myself gravitating a bit toward some older technology lights - Peaks in particular - which don't have the bells and whistles but I've been able to purchase at good prices and which are rock solid reliable lights that still manage to do their jobs with little fuss or bother - and are pretty good backups in a power outage as well. Not a lot novel to discuss really, but if someone produced a AA/14500 based light with D10 styling and something akin to the Novatac/Ra UI I'd still by it!

Ilikeshinythings said:

...I guess all I'm trying to say is that I would like to see more manufacturer's take a "back to the basics" approach and bring us some practical, single-mode, simply designed (not overly textured), forward click lights that do the job without looking like something the sith would carry on his belt. I don't care if they're made in China or on planet Mars--Just make them...I would gladly pay more.

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Ilikeshinythings said:

I'm a major fan of Inovas and always have been, but I wish there were more companies like Inova in the US of A--our options are very limited, and the majority of the threads on CPF are dedicated to cheap lights coming from China.

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Peak makes lights that fit most of you criteria, except for the forward clicky.

I do know what you are saying in your first post, and I feel it too sometime. Change is constant, and not always easy to keep up with, and not always good. Sometimes too many choices make things harder to figure out and take some of the fun away.

It was neat at first, but now it feels as if we've actually reached the peak and there isn't much to look forward to, at least in terms of lights coming from China. I have yet to handle the perfect light, and the afformentioned D10/EX10 lasted me all of one day before I sold it to another member. I thought it would be "the one" but I absolutely despised the UI and ramping modes and the beam was useless to me. I would love to be able to afford a Novatac 120P but they're way too expensive. The closest to "perfect" light I have ever handled is the 2008 T1 from Inova. Far better in terms of build and beam quality than any light I have received from China.

Ilikeshinythings said:

It was neat at first, but now it feels as if we've actually reached the peak and there isn't much to look forward to, at least in terms of lights coming from China. I have yet to handle the perfect light, and the afformentioned D10/EX10 lasted me all of one day before I sold it to another member. I thought it would be "the one" but I absolutely despised the UI and ramping modes and the beam was useless to me. I would love to be able to afford a Novatac 120P but they're way too expensive. The closest to "perfect" light I have ever handled is the 2008 T1 from Inova. Far better in terms of build and beam quality than any light I have received from China.

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Ilikeshinythings said:

I guess all I'm trying to say is that I would like to see more manufacturer's take a "back to the basics" approach and bring us some practical, single-mode, simply designed (not overly textured), forward click lights that do the job without looking like something the sith would carry on his belt. I don't care if they're made in China or on planet Mars--Just make them...I would gladly pay more.
/rant

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Wow, you are hard to please! The UI is, IMO, among the simplest variable output UI's out there and the beam is pretty darn good as well. I certainly wouldn't call it useless?

What, exactly, do you need a light for that you can't find one out there that you like? you say you want a simple, single level and yet you want a Novatac? What are you looking for in a torch.......................

superflytnt said:

Wow, you are hard to please! The UI is, IMO, among the simplest variable output UI's out there and the beam is pretty darn good as well. I certainly wouldn't call it useless?

What, exactly, do you need a light for that you can't find one out there that you like? you say you want a simple, single level and yet you want a Novatac? What are you looking for in a torch.......................

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I agree with you.

Nothing is going to please the OP... Absolutely NOTHING.

Might as well spend your money making your own custom lights, which will satisfy you for a few weeks, before you get bored and get rid of them, to start on a new light.

Oh well, must be nice to have so much money to be so darn picky. :shakehead

Ilikeshinythings said:

It was neat at first, but now it feels as if we've actually reached the peak and there isn't much to look forward to, at least in terms of lights coming from China. I have yet to handle the perfect light, and the afformentioned D10/EX10 lasted me all of one day before I sold it to another member. I thought it would be "the one" but I absolutely despised the UI and ramping modes and the beam was useless to me. I would love to be able to afford a Novatac 120P but they're way too expensive. The closest to "perfect" light I have ever handled is the 2008 T1 from Inova. Far better in terms of build and beam quality than any light I have received from China.

Click to expand...

In a perfect world, my flashlight would be a light saber that I could use to chop sandwiches in half with.

My flashlight would also beam me from place to place on vacation, so I don't have to step on an airplane. And if I was feeling tired, my flashlight would energize my body with its energy.

But until that perfect day / light becomes available, we have to settle with what's practical, affordable, and realistic.

I remember the excitement of seeing a thread announcing a new light concept. The designer would determine if there was sufficient interest and would ask us to prepay so that he would have funds to start production. It took quite a few months from comception to delivery. Now the announcement reads "now available" The excitement decreases to the several days that it takes USPS to deliver it.

I also think that most of the big jumps in concept have taken place. The luxeon was a big wow factor. All of a sudden I had a full size flashlight in my pocket. Crees are brighter but there is not threshold that will allow me to do something that the Q5 will not do. Sure, there will be higher binns putting out more light at less power, but these increases don't make me feel that I "have to have" that light. I remember the introduction of two level lights and then the introduction of the FLuPIC. There is a limit to how many times you can push or twist something to change brightness or activate SOS. Todays UI are just variations of the FLuPIC concept.

I recently bought a D10 to see what a AA light could do. I am totally impressed. I liked it so much I bought two E10s to leave in the cars. I think it will be quite a while before I buy my next light. But then again, maybe someone will surprise me with something I never thought of.

Alan

Alan - glad to hear your positive epxeriences and perspective on things.

Someone just can't be pleased, no matter what the topic or product.

We have more choices than EVER in flashlights, cellphones, TVs, cars, etc... I see the same rants in almost every subject...

Why can't my cellphone do this...I bought an iPhone and gave it away in 1 day. My blackberry is no longer useful to me. My RAZR is not fancy enough. I need a simple tool...etc etc..

Some people just need to take a step back and get some perspective man. These things are always evolving, and with advances in technology we have a lot more choices than ever. How people can continue to rant and rave is a sign of the person, not the technology / product offerings.