Wolf Eyes Persuasion - D26/P60 Drop Ins

KeeperSD

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Question was raised, when Lumens Factory announced that they were to release a new LED drop in, but it would not fit into the Wolf Eyes D26 lights, should Wolf eyes look to modify their lights slightly to accept the large amounts of LED drop ins that are already available. Rather than hijack the Lumens Factory thread, i thought (as did the mods) I would start a new thread where it can be discussed. Along with the possibility of stirring some interest at the WE factory if enough people express some interest in the thread.

The quotes below are where the conversation began in the LF thread, hopefully it can continue on from here. While the original question was targetted towards LED drop ins, as can be seen by Cernobila's post, there are incan drop ins too that WE won't accept.

I had thought of that too but then dismissed it thinking that the company would not be interested since they already offer drop ins that fit.
Is it the width or the depth of the other drop ins that cause problems for the WE?
Maybe Glen could shed some light on WE stance on this type of modification, although this is a little of topic - if the mods would prefer i will start a new topic for this discussion.
WE is a progressive company and does listen to its customer base so don't give up on them. I contacted Glen myself to see if this would be a possibility. The more people that will contact Glen on this issue the more feedback he can give the WE factory.......It is the depth that is the only issue, the width is fine, it needs to be about 7mm deeper/longer to fit the Dereelight 5AQ2 and the FM-D26. I believe that most of the other longer drop-ins are of similar size.

If the depth is the problem, could it be solved with a slightly different bezel, or would the whole body need to be modified? It would be nice if could be fixed with a change in bezel, that way it would be cost effective to modify any WE already owned.

I would also be interested to hear from non WE owners, if they could accept all drop ins, would you be more likely to purchase a WE light?

Maybe the dealers could also chime in on this thread with their thoughts/opinions.
 
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GreySave

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Maybe it is just me, but..........It seems like a lot to ask a company to modify its lights specifically so that they can accept someone else's drop ins, especially when WE offers their own line of drop ins that do fit. While it might generate some sales, building a product specifically for that purpose opens up a whole bunch of questions regarding warranties (Or lack of) and liability issues. It would be interesting to hear how some of the professional modders here would feel about being asked to build such a product.
 

mdocod

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Honestly, I think LumensFactory needs to change their design to fit the wolf-eyes head if possible. Not the other way around.

Eric
 

KeeperSD

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Maybe it is just me, but..........It seems like a lot to ask a company to modify its lights specifically so that they can accept someone else's drop ins, especially when WE offers their own line of drop ins that do fit. While it might generate some sales, building a product specifically for that purpose opens up a whole bunch of questions regarding warranties (Or lack of) and liability issues. It would be interesting to hear how some of the professional modders here would feel about being asked to build such a product.
While i do agree that it is a lbit to ask the company to modify the lights, if it isn't asked then how will we ever know. I don't see it as modifying the light for the specific purpose of allowing it to be used for other drop ins, more making the Wolf Eyes lights universal with other lights available. For some companies asking the question wouldn't even be worth it, but as cernobila has pointed out, WE is a progressive company and do take on board customers requests and comments.

Honestly, I think LumensFactory needs to change their design to fit the wolf-eyes head if possible. Not the other way around.
Eric
I would also like this to happen, but it appears that Mark from LF has made their position pretty clear on that happening. Since it appears that WE is the only light that uses D26's that is slightly different to the others, maybe they would consider moving to a more universal type design.

fasuto, phaserburn and ledaddict, thought you might be able to add your voice to this thread as well.
 
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mdocod

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KeeperSD said:
...Since it appears that WE is the only light that uses D26's that is slightly different to the others, maybe they would consider moving to a more iniversal type design...

Wasn't aware that the wolf-eyes design was so far different, (never used on in person)... With that thought in mind, I'm leaning towards agreement that maybe wolf-eyes should look into their options for change :)

YES, I'M A FLIP FLOPPER, LIKE A POLITICIAN!!!!! MUAHAHHA

Eric
 

Norm

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It would be good to be able use standard D26 dropins and lamps in Wolf Eyes lights.
Norm
 

cernobila

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To explain the impass.......

The original D26 lamps such as the SF P91, WE D26 range, and LF D26 range have been more or less the same in size. On the WE and the LF the outer spring can come off and be used in the WE.

The new generation of aftermarket D26 drop-ins from many companies (mainly LED's) have been longer in length than the original selection and come with detachable outer spring.

The pictures below show the difference between some of these. The longer drop-in is a FM-D26, which is very close in length to the new crop of D26 LED's. In the last picture you see the difference in length between the WE bezel and a SF type "C" bezel. The internal width is the same.

As the next generation of D26 drop-ins will continue to be longer than the original, it only makes sense for WE to introduce a stretched/longer version of their D26 bezel to allow the existing owners to be able to take advantage of the many choices they now have. I am sure that the WE owners will be ok with this solution......

.....I must add that WE would have to do testing to make sure that there will be good contact between the drop-in's and the existing Sniper/Raider bodies to make this a possibility.






 
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cernobila

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I just took off the bezel on my Sniper, turned the switch "on", took off the outer springs on my 5AQ2 Dereelight drop-in as well as on my FM-D26/Strion drop-in......installed them in the light and pushed down to make contact......and bingo, both worked perfectly while I was holding them down in the body.......this confirms that the simple solution is a longer bezel.

Now, how much longer, that is the next question. If its too long, then not all drop-ins will make contact inside the light, if its too short, once tightened, there will be a gap between the bezel and the body. I think that WE would have to pick the shortest from the new "longer" drop-ins and use that as the standard knowing that there will be some kind of very small gap between the bezel and the body, depending on the actual drop-in installed. I think that the differences between the shortest "long" drop-in and the longest "long" drop-in would be about 2mm to 3mm.....I can live with that. I rather have reliability than a perfect fit between body and bezel.....my guess work is that the new bezel would have to be about 6mm or 7mm longer, but then this is just a wild guess. :)
 
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KeeperSD

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Thanks for the pics Cernobila, much easier to see the difference with pics rather than words.

If Wolf eyes were to change there bezel, wouldn't they also be able to extend the length of their drop in which may provide a little more throw from the WE drop ins, which can never be a bad thing.
 

cernobila

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Thanks for the pics Cernobila, much easier to see the difference with pics rather than words.

If Wolf eyes were to change there bezel, wouldn't they also be able to extend the length of their drop in which may provide a little more throw from the WE drop ins, which can never be a bad thing.

Yes, they could then be free to introduce deeper D26 incan and LED drop-ins themselves that would most likely produce greater throw from each unit. Could be as simple as changing the shape of the reflectors on their existing lamps in the 3.7, 6 and 9 volt series......BUT then, I am no designer and could be way of the mark. :)
 

Phaserburn

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To me, it's up to LF to make the accomodation to WE lights. They are the aftermarket accessory. Why would WE want to do this? To give their customers more non-WE choices? I don't think so; that's not sound business. WE lights (xenon) are very reasonably priced; their drop-ins, not quite as much. That's business they want to keep, I'm sure.

But, I think one of the most important things about WE dropins (and Dereelight) is that they don't use the outer spring. The module base comes into direct and ample contact with the lights body. This makes superior heatsinking, and when running leds at 1.2A, this isn't trivial IMHO. If LF is going to market dropins to WE owners, they need to make sure their unit can accomodate this very important feature.

If you're going to use your light for a minute or three at a time, DX/Kai/etc will do fine. If you want to be sure you can get full runtime everytime out, well...
 

LED61

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The wolfeyes Raider has been modified already. The newest model I got a few months ago no longer has that ugly gap where the head could not be screwed in deep to close when the Lumens factory EO-9 was used. The new light can now accept the lamp and close the head all the way. If you wanted this with the old light you had to sand off the front face of the EO-9.
 

KeeperSD

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The wolfeyes Raider has been modified already. The newest model I got a few months ago no longer has that ugly gap where the head could not be screwed in deep to close when the Lumens factory EO-9 was used. The new light can now accept the lamp and close the head all the way. If you wanted this with the old light you had to sand off the front face of the EO-9.
My Raider is probably 18 months old and i have never had this problem whilst using the E09..... :shrug:

I also agree with some of the sentiments that WE shouldn't have to change their lights to suit aftermarket options, but if it is a small change which would make them more universal, i don't think that would necessarily be a bad business decision, might be enough to sway some customers. Considering it is unlikely that SF are going anywhere soon there is likely to always be drop ins available to suit.
 

cernobila

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My Raider is probably 18 months old and i have never had this problem whilst using the E09..... :shrug:

I also agree with some of the sentiments that WE shouldn't have to change their lights to suit aftermarket options, but if it is a small change which would make them more universal, i don't think that would necessarily be a bad business decision, might be enough to sway some customers. Considering it is unlikely that SF are going anywhere soon there is likely to always be drop ins available to suit.

I don't know what the fuss is all about. The only thing that would be changed in this situation is the Sniper/Raider bezel, nothing else. It would be about 6mm or 7mm longer and I would also extend the thread inside the bezel nearly all the way to the end, if you know what I mean. From the pictures of all the new "longer" aftermarket D26/P60 drop-ins, I believe that they all have the detachable main outer springs just like the WE and LF already have. I am also having a wild guess that the new crop of LF D26 LED drop-ins would be no different. As I said already, I consider the Dereelight 5AQ2 drop-in to be a typical example of the new longer drop-ins on the market right now......This is really not that hard.
 

KeeperSD

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Since there is a good chance that the factory is going to go for this, what are the chances a custom modder would be able to produce a new bezel for the Wolf Eyes lights that will allow this?
 

LEDAdd1ct

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I just caught this thread this evening, and I think there are a couple of good points being made here. Here is my take on the issue.

Right now, my favorite hiking light is the Wolf Eyes Guider with R2 dropin. The light feels very comfortable in the hand, the thumb-clickie is very much appreciated, the light is plenty bright, has lots of close-up spill for not tripping over one's feet, and has very nice throw for illuminating objects way down the trail. In fact, the one thing I do not like about the light is the fact it will not accept other brand dropins.

Last night, right after turning off my computer and muttering to myself how I was about to turn off my lamp to go to sleep, I got to playing with my 18650 D26 host lights. I took my Wolf Eyes Guider with R2 and my Surefire C2 lego-light, which is currently composed of the regular C2 twist switch, the C2 head, a 1x18650 Leef body, and a Q4 Malkoff, and set them down on my bed; talking about dimensions is one thing, experimenting is quite another.

Taking the heads off both the Guider and Leef tube, I removed the dropins, and tried swapping them. The Guider D26 R2 module fit into the Leef body with C2 head with no issues, and the light functioned just fine. But the Malkoff, as Gene will tell you, absolutely would not fit/function in the Guider. So, how do I react to this?

1) From a Business perspective:

From a business perspective, I can understand a company limiting their lights to "hosting" only their own brand of module. Why open up your light to being used for another company's product?

2) From a Consumer's perspective:

From a consumer's perspective, choice is the name of the game. I really like the form of my Guider light, and instead of purchasing a whole Dereelight (very low on funds at the moment), I would love to be able to purchase the 5A Q2 module and drop it in to my Guider. Right now, I cannot; the input of others suggests strongly it will not fit. The question comes up, "if Dereelight can make a host that will accept other modules, why can't Wolf Eyes?" (please correct me if I am wrong about the Dereelight being "other module" friendly) In the ideal flashlight world, we would have maximum freedom for interchangeable parts. The D26 dropin arena is really starting to make that a reality.

3) My perspective:

I would love for my Guider to accept what is becoming, at least in our little pond, the "standard" size for D26 dropins. However, I recognize that if Wolf Eyes opened up their design to accept other brands, they would stand to lose a certain amount of business. On the other hand, I can also see an overwhelmingly positive response; a company makes a change to make their light more "open standards," which encourages people to purchase that light, since it now will work with a much broader range of modules.

Some Questions for Wolf Eyes:

1) Was making the light accept/use a slightly different sized module intentional or incidental?

2) If intentional, was it to prevent other modules from being used?

3) If incidental, would it be a financial burden to change the size just a little bit?

4) How large a customer base do you have who just grab the light and use it without a second thought, vs. us on this board who analyze these things to death?

5) Are we CPF'ers and our input significant enough to you in our purchasing power to make a difference?

These are just some musings after a long day-hike. I'll think about it some more tonight before bed.

LEDAdd1ct
 

LEDAdd1ct

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Six years have passed.

Are there any updates on whether the Wolf Eyes lights are now more D26/P60 friendly?
 
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Norm

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Good question, I doubt it. WolfEyes likes to have you locked into their product.

Just checked there Aussie distributors site, the drop ins look the same as they did years ago, the LED is very dated, they seem to be selling the same drop ins as they did in 2008

http://wolfeyes.com.au/wolf-eyes-d26-350-lumen-led-p-227.html

An R2 Turbo High Output LED providing 350 Lumens of output. The perfect upgrade for any of our 260 lumen or 170 lumen Sniper, Sniper Hunter or Defender models. The LED provides 4 levels of light output, high, medium and low beam and a strobe. It is regulated so provides the optimum current to the LED, that way it maintains brightness for a long time whilst the battery is declining (it retains maximum brightness for 2 hr of it's 2 hour 20 minute runtime on a LRB168A battery, then dims a little).

Norm
 
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