FourSevens        
Results 1 to 29 of 29

Thread: Surefire P60L vs Malkoff M60LL

  1. #1

    Default Surefire P60L vs Malkoff M60LL

    I've been trying to decide whether to get a M60L or M60LL to replace the P60L in a surefire G2.

    I know that both the M60L and M60LL run at maximum output longer than the P60L, so that was what first got my attention. I want as much runtime as possible, but more importantly I do not want anything dimmer than the P60L. As long as the Malkoff replacement is as bright or brighter than the P60L I want the one with more runtime.

    I was wondering if the Malkoff is measured in out-the-front lumens or lumens at the emitter? Basically, does anyone know for sure which is brighter? The Surefire P60L or Malkoff M60LL? Thanks.

  2. #2
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    CA
    Posts
    11,872

    Default Re: Surefire P60L vs Malkoff M60LL

    I think that Gene is using out the front lumens now. CPF'ers using Integrated Sphere's are showing the M60 at about 220 lumens. Gene is saying about 130 lumens for the M60L, and 80 lumens for the M60LL. Comparing some of my lights to each other using bounce with a light meter, I would guess that the P60L is putting out an honest 80 lumens, maybe a little more. It looks like Gene's M60LL will run longer than the SF P60L as I believe it draws about 175 mA's, or so from the batteries. My P60L pulls about 300mA's. I do not have an M60L or LL.

    Bill

  3. #3
    Flashaholic*
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Land of the Bean and the Cod
    Posts
    1,798

    Default Re: Surefire P60L vs Malkoff M60LL

    So the M60LL is about the same effective lumens out the front as the P60L?
    MD3 | M6CB | Gladius/SSCP4 | A2-HA-WH | A2-HA-YG | A2-BK-WH | Z3/KT2 | M2 | C2 | 6Z | 6P | U2A | K2MS | E2e/KL4 BK | E2DL | E2D | E2L | L2 | Milky ML1/SSCP4 USWOH McR18j | L1-BK-RD | L1-HA-WH | L1-HA-WH Cree | L1-HA-RD | 3P | E1B | E1L | E1E-HA-BK | E1W | 618FA | G2

  4. #4
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    CA
    Posts
    11,872

    Default Re: Surefire P60L vs Malkoff M60LL

    Quote Originally Posted by JNewell View Post
    So the M60LL is about the same effective lumens out the front as the P60L?
    Somebody else needs to pipe in here about the output of the M60LL. 80 lumens is what Gene estimates. I do not know if anyone has run it in an IS, or tested it using a home made IS. If someone who owns an M60LL, and an M60 would do a basic bounce with light meter test, and compare the readings on the meter we could guess the Lumen output.

    Bill

  5. #5
    *Flashaholic* Sgt. LED's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Chesapeake, Ohio
    Posts
    7,486

    Default Re: Surefire P60L vs Malkoff M60LL

    My m60LL is about 10 lumens brighter than my P60L was in a 6P.
    Much better looking too. SOLD the P60L, just not for me.

    I just considered the P60L as the back up to the back to the back up of the back up for my G2/6P/C3.

  6. #6
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    CA
    Posts
    11,872

    Default Re: Surefire P60L vs Malkoff M60LL

    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt. LED View Post
    My m60LL is about 10 lumens brighter than my P60L was in a 6P.
    Much better looking too. SOLD the P60L, just not for me.

    I just considered the P60L as the back up to the back to the back up of the back up for my G2/6P/C3.
    Were you able to measure that 10 lumens difference, using bounce with light meter, a lightbox, or homemade IS?

    Bill

  7. #7
    Flashaholic* SilentK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Southern Mississippi
    Posts
    557

    Default Re: Surefire P60L vs Malkoff M60LL

    Wow, so gene is using out the front lumens? that means that the m60l is not as low as i thought it would be. i always thought he used bulb lumens and therefore - despite all the exelent reviews - have not got one.

  8. #8
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    CA
    Posts
    11,872

    Default Re: Surefire P60L vs Malkoff M60LL

    Quote Originally Posted by SilentK View Post
    Wow, so gene is using out the front lumens? that means that the m60l is not as low as i thought it would be. i always thought he used bulb lumens and therefore - despite all the exelent reviews - have not got one.
    See this thread, post 200 re M60 lumens: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...93#post2563193

    Bill

  9. #9
    Flashaholic* Yoda4561's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Florida, U.S.A.
    Posts
    1,265

    Default Re: Surefire P60L vs Malkoff M60LL

    The stated values are for estimated bulb lumens, but I suspect those are a bit conservative. It just so happens that the optics are efficient enough to get most of those lumens out the front.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Surefire P60L vs Malkoff M60LL

    Got my M60LL today. It appears roughly to be the same brightness to my eyes as the P60L. The M60LL has a tighter brighter hotspot, while the P60L appears to have a more floody beam with a more defined spill beam.

    I did a rough ceiling bounce test, but with out measuring instruments all I could do is use my own eyes and compare them against each other. They appear to match each other in overall output very closely. M60LL has a warmer tint, and P60L is much cooler. If the M60LL runtime of 8 hours at full brightness is accurate, it is a much better buy in my opinion.

  11. #11
    Flashaholic*
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Sycamore, Illinois
    Posts
    1,768

    Default Surefire 6P LED vs. Malkoff M60LL

    I have a 6P with a Malkoff M60, and love it. I also have a G2LED (stock) and I was just wondering about the M60LL. It is rated at 80 lumens, just like the stock Surefire 6P LED. Is it really the same brightness? What about the runtime? I know what the advertised numbers say, but what about a direct head to head comparison? Would it be worth getting the M60LL, or just stick with the stock module? Anyone directly compare the two side by side?
    Thanks.
    Aren't flashlights cool?
    Carry a flashlight, and you'll have a bright future.

  12. #12
    Flashaholic* zx7dave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    601

    Default Re: Surefire 6P LED vs. Malkoff M60LL

    The Malkoff M60LL has a 8 hour runtime..more than double the 6P LED with similiar output.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Surefire 6P LED vs. Malkoff M60LL

    Big Ed;

    I'm in the same boat you are; I have a G2L with the stock P60L module. Recently, I bought a used M60L and did some extensive comparisons between the two modules. I confirmed for myself that what everyone says is true. Apparently, human perception of brightness difference is exponential, so a light twice as bright appears only SLIGHTLY brighter. I found that to be true with the M60L (140 lumens) and the P60L (65 lumens). But, the M60L is perceptibly brighter, has a similar runtime, and a much warmer tint. I'm happy.

    This discovery has prompted me to put an M60LL next on the list of acquisition. I figure I could sell the P60L for $30, so for an incremental $25 I can get a much longer runtime and better tint. It's clearly not a cost issue; it would take a lot of hours of use to make back that $25 in batteries at $1.30 apiece. I just like the efficiency of the package.

    On a side note, I realized that I need a lower-output light like th M60LL in addition to my M60L. I take long walks at night, after the kids are in bed, and the M60L is too bright. The reflected light off the ground ruins my night vision, whereas the P60L and I assume the M60LL would not do.

    -John

  14. #14
    Flashaholic* zx7dave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    601

    Default Re: Surefire 6P LED vs. Malkoff M60LL

    Also the Surefire LED Dropin actually runs pretty hot where as the Malkoff M60LL definately will not if you are planning to use for extended runtimes.

  15. #15
    Administrator Kestrel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Willamette Valley, OR
    Posts
    6,486

    Default Re: Surefire 6P LED vs. Malkoff M60LL

    The other thing is that the P60L's thermal regulation drops the output down to 50-60 lumens after the first 5 minutes, pretty much the same output as the M60LL with a dimmer hotspot. I've got both the P60L and the M60LL and the P60L just can't compete in throw, tint and runtime. My 1.5 cents.

  16. #16
    Flashaholic* Moka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Down-Under, Third Rock...
    Posts
    518

    Default Re: Surefire 6P LED vs. Malkoff M60LL

    +1 on the runtime... I don't think anything can compete with 8hrs regulated @ 100%, all the figures on Genes site are 100% figures then dimming thereafter...

  17. #17
    Administrator Kestrel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Willamette Valley, OR
    Posts
    6,486

    Default Re: Surefire 6P LED vs. Malkoff M60LL

    Quote Originally Posted by Moka View Post
    ... all the [runtime] figures on Genes site are 100% figures then dimming thereafter...
    unlike <COUGH> SureFire <COUGH> ...

  18. #18
    Flashaholic*
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Boden, Sweden
    Posts
    3,301

    Default Re: Surefire 6P LED vs. Malkoff M60LL

    I like the design of Surefire 6P LED. Will Malkoff dropins for Surefire fit as well Surefire LED and incan? IF it does I understand I have no reason to get the 6P in the more expensive LED version?

    Regards, Partic

  19. #19
    Enlightened
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    texas
    Posts
    94

    Default Re: Surefire 6P LED vs. Malkoff M60LL

    Quote Originally Posted by Kestrel View Post
    The other thing is that the P60L's thermal regulation drops the output down to 50-60 lumens after the first 5 minutes, pretty much the same output as the M60LL with a dimmer hotspot. I've got both the P60L and the M60LL and the P60L just can't compete in throw, tint and runtime. My 1.5 cents.
    Is the M60LL ok to use with 3.7V rechargeables? I am new to the Surefire world. BTW how tolerant is the orig. 6p module to the 3.7V AW batt's to be specific.

  20. #20
    Flashaholic
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    North Cackalacky ▲
    Posts
    363

    Default Re: Surefire 6P LED vs. Malkoff M60LL

    I recently upgraded from the Surefire P60L to the Malkoff M60LL.

    With fresh batteries at turn on, the P60L is noticeably brighter. As mentioned the P60L brightness will drop off quick enough to where the M60LL will run the reported 8 hours at constant output. I haven't run it for 8 hours, nor do I have the test equipment to confirm this.

    The beam on the P60L is smoother. The M60LL has some slight rings. I just picked up some diffuser film on the MP that I'm thinking of putting on the inside of the bezel lens to see if that cleans up the M60LL any. Reportedly the film only results in a 5% throughput drop.

    With the M60LL there will be a slight gap between the bezel, and light body. This is said to be required to provide good electrical contact w/the Malkoff dropin. I hadn't read about it before purchasing mine, so thought I'd mention it.

    Overall I'm happy with the M60LL, with its dramatic increase in runtime, and near P60L brightness.

  21. #21
    Flashaholic*
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Boden, Sweden
    Posts
    3,301

    Default Re: Surefire 6P LED vs. Malkoff M60LL

    Hi damn_hammer,

    I have Malkoff MD2 stock flashlight. This hasn't the typhical reflector beam profile with hotspot, spill and then a sharp edged cut of the beam, but instead a hotspot with a partly gradually diminishing beam. The spill of this beam (compared with equal lumens) isn't as bright as the typhical reflector beam within the width of typhical reflector beam, but it continues to illuminate where the typhical reflector beam doesn't illuminates at all.
    (excuse my clumsy english expressions...)

    Is it the same with M60LL?

    Regards, Patric

  22. #22
    Flashaholic*
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Central Ca
    Posts
    1,143

    Default Re: Surefire 6P LED vs. Malkoff M60LL

    Quote Originally Posted by hogger View Post
    Is the M60LL ok to use with 3.7V rechargeables? I am new to the Surefire world. BTW how tolerant is the orig. 6p module to the 3.7V AW batt's to be specific.
    Yes..it is ok up to 9V.

    Using 2-AW 3.7 batt's fully charged they are actually 4.2V each for a total of 8.4V.

    The stock module will not be happy. It only can tolerate 6V. You would need to buy a AW 17670 to get the voltage down low enough to not hurt that LED.
    Travis

    Various Neutral Tinted/Hi CRI Goodness.

  23. #23
    Flashaholic
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    North Cackalacky ▲
    Posts
    363

    Default Re: Surefire 6P LED vs. Malkoff M60LL

    Quote Originally Posted by Swedpat View Post
    Hi damn_hammer,

    I have Malkoff MD2 stock flashlight. This hasn't the typhical reflector beam profile with hotspot, spill and then a sharp edged cut of the beam, but instead a hotspot with a partly gradually diminishing beam. The spill of this beam (compared with equal lumens) isn't as bright as the typhical reflector beam within the width of typhical reflector beam, but it continues to illuminate where the typhical reflector beam doesn't illuminates at all.
    (excuse my clumsy english expressions...)

    Is it the same with M60LL?

    Regards, Patric
    Hey Patric,

    I tried looking for some beam shots of the M60LL but had no luck. I don't know how to answer this. I'll speculate that if you have a M60L, or M60 w/optic it would be similar to the M60LL in beam shape, and character. The only other non-Maglite drop in I have from Malkoff is the M61, which uses a different emitter then the M60LL so wouldn't be a good comparison.
    Last edited by damn_hammer; 03-03-2010 at 01:58 PM.

  24. #24
    Enlightened
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    texas
    Posts
    94

    Default Re: Surefire 6P LED vs. Malkoff M60LL

    Quote Originally Posted by FroggyTaco View Post
    Yes..it is ok up to 9V.

    Using 2-AW 3.7 batt's fully charged they are actually 4.2V each for a total of 8.4V.

    The stock module will not be happy. It only can tolerate 6V. You would need to buy a AW 17670 to get the voltage down low enough to not hurt that LED.
    Thanks, I will just get a 17670 aw cell to tide me over until I decide what drop in to buy.

  25. #25
    Administrator Kestrel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Willamette Valley, OR
    Posts
    6,486

    Default Re: Surefire 6P LED vs. Malkoff M60LL

    Quote Originally Posted by hogger View Post
    Is the M60LL ok to use with 3.7V rechargeables? I am new to the Surefire world. BTW how tolerant is the orig. 6p module to the 3.7V AW batt's to be specific.
    For the post above, I am assuming that when you refer to the original 6P module, you are referring to the SureFire P60 LED, which is what this thread is generally covering (and which I cover with my reply below). If you are referring to the incandescent P60 module, that is only compatible with 2x CR123 primaries, there is no LiIon rechargeable configuration that will match its input voltage satisfactorily.

    Quote Originally Posted by hogger View Post
    Thanks, I will just get a 17670 aw cell to tide me over until I decide what drop in to buy.
    Hold on, I've actually tried out the SureFire P60L (LED) drop-in with a single 3.7v LiIon and it's output is very low, maybe ~ half the nominal output or even less, a very poor matchup.

    The SureFire P60 LED module can handle 2x LiIon or 3x CR123 with no problems at all, either configuration providing ~7.5v under load. SureFire rates that LED module to ~9V - remember, that exact module comes in their 3xCR123 G3 LED flashlight.

    Edit: The Malkoff M60 series (including the LL), however, provides nearly its rated maximum output on a single large 3.7v LiIon like the 17670, I would very much recommend that specific configuration. 2x RCR123 will give you a very very short runtime, much shorter than on 1x 17670 with either the SureFire P60 LED module or the Malkoff 'M60x' modules.

    I highly suggest that you read these threads, they pretty much cover your exact situation and what your goal seems to be:
    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...d.php?t=203931
    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...d.php?t=227576
    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...d.php?t=226590
    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...56#post3130056
    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...=194879&page=6
    Last edited by Kestrel; 03-03-2010 at 02:50 PM.

  26. #26
    Flashaholic*
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Central Ca
    Posts
    1,143

    Default Re: Surefire 6P LED vs. Malkoff M60LL

    Well I guess I misread my 6PL info. some where. Thanks for the correction Kestrel.

    At least with that 17670 he would never have thermal throttling occur!
    Travis

    Various Neutral Tinted/Hi CRI Goodness.

  27. #27
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    465

    Default Re: Surefire 6P LED vs. Malkoff M60LL

    Quote Originally Posted by Kestrel View Post
    unlike <COUGH> SureFire <COUGH> ...

    I seem to have the same cold.

  28. #28
    Enlightened
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    texas
    Posts
    94

    Default Re: Surefire 6P LED vs. Malkoff M60LL

    Quote Originally Posted by Kestrel View Post
    For the post above, I am assuming that when you refer to the original 6P module, you are referring to the SureFire P60 LED, which is what this thread is generally covering (and which I cover with my reply below). If you are referring to the incandescent P60 module, that is only compatible with 2x CR123 primaries, there is no LiIon rechargeable configuration that will match its input voltage satisfactorily.


    Hold on, I've actually tried out the SureFire P60L (LED) drop-in with a single 3.7v LiIon and it's output is very low, maybe ~ half the nominal output or even less, a very poor matchup.

    The SureFire P60 LED module can handle 2x LiIon or 3x CR123 with no problems at all, either configuration providing ~7.5v under load. SureFire rates that LED module to ~9V - remember, that exact module comes in their 3xCR123 G3 LED flashlight.

    Edit: The Malkoff M60 series (including the LL), however, provides nearly its rated maximum output on a single large 3.7v LiIon like the 17670, I would very much recommend that specific configuration. 2x RCR123 will give you a very very short runtime, much shorter than on 1x 17670 with either the SureFire P60 LED module or the Malkoff 'M60x' modules.

    I highly suggest that you read these threads, they pretty much cover your exact situation and what your goal seems to be:
    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...d.php?t=203931
    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...d.php?t=227576
    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...d.php?t=226590
    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...56#post3130056
    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...=194879&page=6
    Thanks I will do some more reading. Excellent point about the use of that module with more than two cells.

  29. #29
    Administrator Kestrel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Willamette Valley, OR
    Posts
    6,486

    Default Re: Surefire 6P LED vs. Malkoff M60LL

    Cool. I think that one vs. two LiIon cells & Malkoff modules are perhaps my favorite topics on CPF - I keep a list of threads on this handy because this topic seems to come up often.

    Here is a rather extensive post I just did which, with calculations based on the best and most recent CPF data I could find, shows the significant advantage in capacity 1x17670 (+45%) and 1x18650 (+120%) has over 2x RCR123 for real-world use with a regulated LED module which runs at or at least near spec on ~3.7v up to 7.4v (the Malkoff M60x series , not the SureFire P60LED - which I have found runs way under spec at 3.7v ).

    This explains why I don't own any protected RCR123's.
    Last edited by Kestrel; 03-03-2010 at 07:20 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •