what kind of led will be used in the next generation thrower?

hello
what will be the led in the DBS V3 ? P7 .? cree MC-E ?
:devil:

R4

when will it be released ?

I was just guessing, for the time being, the only thing on the horizon for advancements in the "thrower" class of LEDs is increased efficiency of single die emitters. unless someone can come up with an optic or focusing system for the multi-die emitters that throws really well.

So right now they are using Q5s and R2s in various "thrower" lights out there. The R2 is slightly brighter per watt than a Q5, then an R3 might come out, then an R4, and so on and so forth, up the chain. I have no idea when the next "bin" of cree LEDs is coming out. But you can expect that in time, any new bin that comes out, will eventually find it's way into some flashlights.

mdocod said:

I was just guessing, for the time being, the only thing on the horizon for advancements in the "thrower" class of LEDs is increased efficiency of single die emitters. unless someone can come up with an optic or focusing system for the multi-die emitters that throws really well.

So right now they are using Q5s and R2s in various "thrower" lights out there. The R2 is slightly brighter per watt than a Q5, then an R3 might come out, then an R4, and so on and so forth, up the chain. I have no idea when the next "bin" of cree LEDs is coming out. But you can expect that in time, any new bin that comes out, will eventually find it's way into some flashlights.

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Yes agreed. The 4-die leds are not suitable for throw lights unless they have very large reflectors,
but they'll always be trumped by single-die lights with a high lumen output/per area of die.
There is probably a technical term for this .... maybe lumen intensity?

Anyway, the Dereelight DBS is upgradeable, so that pills will be brought out for advancing led bins.

The Seoul P7 and Cree MC-E is essentially 4 of their single die high power LEDs(P4 for Seoul and XR-E for Cree) placed in the same package. The larger emitter area means a larger reflector is needed to give a narrower more thrower like beam.

As for LEDs in the future, I'm hoping to see a smaller die higher efficiency LED(more output the the current high power LEDs) being used. The hsmaller emitting area coupled with the higher lumen output should give a lot of throw even with smaller reflector.

I think color is going to be more the issue than throw at this time. Lumens Factory just started releasing their new line of led modules with R2 leds and some of those with a warmer white tint. I just ordered 2 of these to try out and I'm curious to see how these compare to the R2s I currently have. I see a lot of trends towards making the leds smaller with the same output and possibly better effiency. This seems logical as it its just a refinement of the existing technology rather than trying to develop the next big bang in leds. The clamoring for better color rendition seems to be greater than just looking for more output which has made impressive leaps in the last two years.

easilyled said:

Yes agreed. The 4-die leds are not suitable for throw lights unless they have very large reflectors,
but they'll always be trumped by single-die lights with a high lumen output/per area of die.

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That is not entirely correct. There is a scenario where the multi-die LED beats the single die. That is if both are in OP reflectors. And the multi-die LED would not need a bigger reflector to do this.

One way would be multiple emitters. I have one light that has 8 P4's. Each of the P4's has its own smooth reflector. It has more throw than I expected. What is different about it is that it's throw is not just a tiny little spot off in the distance, it is giant wall of light that lights up to one degree or another about the size of a football field. Of course, it would be relatively dim on the outer edges.

saabluster said:

That is not entirely correct. There is a scenario where the multi-die LED beats the single die. That is if both are in OP reflectors. And the multi-die LED would not need a bigger reflector to do this.

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I was only considering smooth reflectors to allow maximum throw.

Dereelight had tried the P7 and was not impressed.
Dereelight SSC P7 Drop-in Proto-type!
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/201112

The gap between the dies in the MCE is worse.
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2620262&postcount=45
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2620281&postcount=47
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2621322&postcount=57

Time to visit the spotlights sub-forum if you need more throw.

I think they need to concentrate on some good tints and efficiency. Right now the R2 or Q5 will throw plenty. Keep in mind, just because a LED or light has 1000 lumens, does not make it an insane thrower. The reflector/light design plays a huge factor(compare a DBS to other Q5 throwers or a Q5 equipped smaller light like a 6P).

LEDninja said:

Dereelight had tried the P7 and was not impressed.
Dereelight SSC P7 Drop-in Proto-type!
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/201112

The gap between the dies in the MCE is worse.
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2620262&postcount=45
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2620281&postcount=47
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2621322&postcount=57

Time to visit the spotlights sub-forum if you need more throw.

Click to expand...

I forgot to mention what I said is based on running each die at the same current as the one in the single die LED. It can be done but you use significantly more power. I think the MC-E and P7 are more suited to optics personally.

The problem with the multi-die emitters is they cannot be focussed too tightly or a doughnut hole appears. The result is about the same distance throw but much more light at that distance.

Beamshot Little Mini left, MTE P7 right.


Mag P7 left, MTE P7 right. I can focus the beam tighter but got a doughnut hole.


I killed my L-mini so I cannot do a direct comparison between the L-mini and the M@g P7. But you can see how even the L-mini with a 20 mm reflector can focus tighter than the Mag P7 with a 52 mm reflector.

Here is a link to StefanFS's outdoor beamshots of P7 modded M@g & Tiablo vs P4 & Q5 lights. You can see how much more area is covered by the P7.
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/198549

Ernsanada found much the same thing. His Malkoff lit up a tree but the P7 M@g lit up his whole backyard.
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/194716

neoseikan is prototyping the LEGION II: A 3*18650 SSC P7 light. He's got 20,000 lux @ 1M already. He is confident he can beat the DBS.
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/193177

Cree has announced a single die emitter with the same properties as the multi die P7 & MCE. Did not give an ETA, just mentioned typical time from lab prototype to production is 18 to 24 months.
Without the gaps between the dies it should be possible to focus this LED much better than the P7 & MCE.

As I think might have been mentioned in the thread some where, a design that uses a P7 with an optic might produce a Thrower. It does not have to be as narrow as the current lights nothing wrong with 2wice the size as long as it throws further. Given the Lumes Power of the P7 I don't see a problem with it having the power to spare. Surefire seems to be big on optics and they also are looking at P7 so... Gene Malkoff was also looking at doing some stuff with the P7, I can't remember if he was considering an optic though.

Luckily I just want a bright light I don't need a thrower... bring on the P7.