CR123 lithium batteries and self-discharge

highseas

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Sep 8, 2008
Messages
88
I just have a quick question. I have read that CR123 lithium batteries have low self-discharge rates (kind of like Eneloop) and long shelf life. Does it mean that if I put CR123s in my flashlights the flashlights will still be good to go after a fairly long period of inactivity? (no acid leaking problem, or drainage).

Also, do CR123s (non-rechargeable) normally run longer than rechargeable CR123s?

Thanks!
 

Yoda4561

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Jan 22, 2007
Messages
1,265
Location
Florida, U.S.A.
Lithium primary (non rechargables) have a 10 year estimated shelf life before they lose a noticable amount of capacity. They work well in both hot and very cold environments, the only real drawback is they're expensive and non rechargable. As far as runtime vs an RCR-123 they have something like 3x the real usable capacity compared to most rcr123's on the market. Rechargable batterys are getting better all the time though, so maybe in a year or so we'll see an rcr123 that has similar capacity to a lithium primary. Now if you're running a larger light, or one that uses a boost circuit you may be able to use an 18650 or 17650, which are approximately the size of 2 lithium primaries, and should offer similar runtime.
 

Black Rose

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Mar 8, 2008
Messages
4,626
Location
Ottawa, ON, Canada
Primary CR123 cells have a shelf life of about 10 years and lose a small percentage of their capacity per year.

Currently, primary CR123 cells have 1.5 to almost 2x the capacity of rechargeable 123s (depending on brand).

Protected rechargeable 123s range between 750 and 880 mAh capacity, whereas primary CR123 cells have around 1300 to 1550 mAh capacity (depending on brand).
 

Rossymeister

Enlightened
Joined
May 4, 2008
Messages
875
Location
U.S.A.
Does it mean that if I put CR123s in my flashlights the flashlights will still be good to go after a fairly long period of inactivity?

Depends On Which Flashlight That You Are Going To Use. Some Lights Draw A Low Current On Standby.

Also, do CR123s (non-rechargeable) normally run longer than rechargeable CR123s?

Yes, Surefire Primaries Have A Higher Capacity Than Rechargeable RCR123s.
 

Hooked on Fenix

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 13, 2007
Messages
3,131
Yes, lithium batteries have a 10 year shelf life. No, I would not suggest leaving the batteries in the light for 10 years while not using it. Some lights have parasitic circuits and some simply drain the batteries over time while not in use. Large maglites are well known for this problem and that is why the batteries end up leaking. Lithiums don't leak, they vent. If these batteries are drained too much or one drained more than the other, when the one goes dead, the other will sort of try to charge it and they can explode. If you leave lithiums in a light for a long period of time, check on it every few months at least. Open the battery tube and let the batteries air out. 123As weren't originally designed to be used in sealed flashlights. They vent to release pressure in the cell to keep them from exploding. Opening the lights every once in a while will allow a place for the pressure to go and prevent your light from eventually exploding. Storing the batteries in most lights for months is probably okay, but I wouldn't suggest doing it for years. Single cell lights will be safer to store a battery in as you don't have two or more cells to charge each other and cause an explosion. I think Fenix clicky lights are also safer for this. If pressure builds inside a Fenix light, the tailcap switch boot pops off letting the pressure get out of the light (you may have to find that part later though).
 

highseas

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Sep 8, 2008
Messages
88
Thanks for the replies.

Now, I have a long tube that I can put 4 CR123s in. Will they charge one another or will I have other problems storing them in such a fashion?
 

Hooked on Fenix

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 13, 2007
Messages
3,131
Yes, that odd aroma is from the cells venting. There are two types of venting. The odd aroma type is normal. The batteries do this naturally over time as they are discharged. The other type is venting with flame. This happens when the batteries can explode. If you think a light will explode, get it out in the open away from you. Many brands of batteries will vent hydrofloric acid into the air. If you breathe it in, you could die or have to go to the hospital.
As to the question about storing the batteries in a tube, here's my answer. If the tube is not a light that can drain the batteries and it's non-conductive (plastic), you don't have anything to worry about. The batteries only vent when discharged so they will not build up pressure when stored in a plastic case. A metal case, however gives the batteries the potential ability to short circuit by completing the circuit with the metal and can be a cause for concern.
 

MorePower

Enlightened
Joined
Nov 4, 2006
Messages
643
Location
Wisconsin
Yes, lithium batteries have a 10 year shelf life. No, I would not suggest leaving the batteries in the light for 10 years while not using it. Some lights have parasitic circuits and some simply drain the batteries over time while not in use. Large maglites are well known for this problem and that is why the batteries end up leaking. Lithiums don't leak, they vent. If these batteries are drained too much or one drained more than the other, when the one goes dead, the other will sort of try to charge it and they can explode. If you leave lithiums in a light for a long period of time, check on it every few months at least. Open the battery tube and let the batteries air out. 123As weren't originally designed to be used in sealed flashlights. They vent to release pressure in the cell to keep them from exploding. Opening the lights every once in a while will allow a place for the pressure to go and prevent your light from eventually exploding. Storing the batteries in most lights for months is probably okay, but I wouldn't suggest doing it for years. Single cell lights will be safer to store a battery in as you don't have two or more cells to charge each other and cause an explosion. I think Fenix clicky lights are also safer for this. If pressure builds inside a Fenix light, the tailcap switch boot pops off letting the pressure get out of the light (you may have to find that part later though).

Hooked on Fenix-

There are so many things wrong with the info in your post that I don't know where to start, so I'll just take it from the top.

1. Maglites don't drain cells when they are turned off. There are a large number of people who have problems with leaking cells in Maglites because of two things; lots of people have Maglites, and lots of them use alkaline cells which are inherently more likely to leak. When a Maglite is off, no current is drawn from the cells.

2. A "dead" cell in that is discharged in series with a "good" cell does not get charged by the good cell, it gets overdischarged. This can cause problems, but using quality primary cells mitigates the chances of that to a large extent.

3. Lithium cells certainly can leak, but the electrolyte used is volatile and evaporates quickly. Venting is the same as leaking. The cells contain what is the equivalent of a burst panel molded into their plastic gaskets. When the panel ruptures, the cell has vented and leaked. This is not something that occurs on a normal basis to "release pressure in the cell to keep them from exploding."

4. Single cell lights are no safer for cell storage than multiple cell lights. Storage implies that the light is OFF, so there is no "charging" (Incorrect term, see point #2) going on in multiple cell lights when they are sitting unused.

Black Rose-

The smell from CR123 cells isn't typically due to venting. It's more from the slow loss of volatile compounds through the gasket material. The materials used are close to, but not completely, impermeable to the electrolyte used in the cells, so over time a small amount of electrolyte will escape without the vent panel rupturing. When stored in a closed container (a flashlight), this small amount of electrolyte vapor is concentrated such that there is enough that you can smell it upon opening the light.

highseas-

Don't worry about it. Go ahead and store the cells in the tube. As long as there is no path for current to flow and short the cells, they should be fine.
 

highseas

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Sep 8, 2008
Messages
88
Is it like the Keep2Go tubes?

As long as a circuit is not formed, you should be fine.


Yes, it is like it, except that it costs $1. It's a tube that stored body lotion or something like that, so when I spotted it, I figured it would work well as a battery case. It does work well. Batteries don't rattle either. And it's $1! I don't know if it's waterproof, but I am satisfied.
 

cave dave

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Aug 15, 2001
Messages
3,764
Location
VA
Change that to "Quality Lithium Primaries have a 10 yr shelf life"

I've had the Chinese cheapies go belly up in storage after a year or two.
 

Black Rose

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Mar 8, 2008
Messages
4,626
Location
Ottawa, ON, Canada
Black Rose-

The smell from CR123 cells isn't typically due to venting. It's more from the slow loss of volatile compounds through the gasket material. The materials used are close to, but not completely, impermeable to the electrolyte used in the cells, so over time a small amount of electrolyte will escape without the vent panel rupturing. When stored in a closed container (a flashlight), this small amount of electrolyte vapor is concentrated such that there is enough that you can smell it upon opening the light.
Thanks MorePower.

After I got some CR123 cells I noticed that whenever I opened my battery storage case (Stanley 23 compartment organizer) there was a slight smell coming from the case, but not as strong as when I open one of my CR123 lights.

Now I leave the lid of the case open a bit so the smell doesn't build up.
 

etc

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 19, 2004
Messages
5,777
Location
Northern Virginia
Hooked on Fenix-


Don't worry about it. Go ahead and store the cells in the tube. As long as there is no path for current to flow and short the cells, they should be fine.

What about a Surefire with the tailcap locked out so there is no possibility of current? Can you keep the cells in it for a long time?
 

MorePower

Enlightened
Joined
Nov 4, 2006
Messages
643
Location
Wisconsin
What about a Surefire with the tailcap locked out so there is no possibility of current? Can you keep the cells in it for a long time?

No current flow = no discharge. It's the same as if you had them sitting on a shelf somewhere in your house.
 
Top