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Thread: "just buy both!" - a flawed mentality

  1. #1
    Flashaholic* copperfox's Avatar
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    Default "just buy both!" - a flawed mentality

    I've seen it too many times; a user will ask which flashlight suits his or her needs the best, only to be told to buy both! This is not a good practice for the following reasons:

    1. It encourages consumerism. That is, purchasing an item that does not fill a need but instead simply because it is affordable. ONE flashlight may fill the need, but two is unnecessary and wasteful.
    2. It disregards the original poster who is trying to stay within budget; this can be annoying.
    3. It does not add useful dialog, it clogs threads, and slows the server. Didn't your mother teach you that "If you don't have anything helpful to say, don't say anything at all"?


    Times when suggesting "just buy both" is OK:

    1. The OP has 0 flashlights and will need one for a critical task. In this situation it can be explained that having a backup light is important. However, usually the two lights being weighed against each other are similar, and the OP may need a backup of a different type.
    2. The OP seems unable to understand or conceptualize the difference between his options over the internet; he or she needs to "feel" the differences in person. Encourage him/her to buy both, keep the best one and sell the other.


    This post is not meant to be a definitive "end-all" guide to when it's appropriate to suggest "just buy both" and there will be plenty of exceptions I didn't mention. My reason for posting this is simply to start a discussion about the consequences of this often encouraged mentality.


  2. #2
    Flashaholic* Thujone's Avatar
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    Default Re: "just buy both!" - a flawed mentality

    Blasphemy!
    01001100011010010111011001100101001000000110100101 10111000100000011101000110100001100101001000000110 0100011000010111001001101011
    00101100000011010000101001100001011011100110010000 10000001110100011010000110010100100000011101110110 1111011100100110110001100100
    00100000011010010111001100100000011101000110100001 11001001100101011000010111010001100101011011100110 1001011011100110011100101110


  3. #3
    *Flashaholic* js's Avatar
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    Default Re: "just buy both!" - a flawed mentality

    Badly needed balance added here in your post, copperfox, but I find it unnecessarily narrow in its exceptions.

    For example, knife sharpeners. There are two that get mentioned most often: the EdgePro Apex and the SpyderCo Sharpmaker. I own both, and they are a great combinations, much better than the "sum of their parts". Further, the SM is the same price as the ceramic hone that is an optional add on to the Apex, and much more useful. It does what the hone does, and more, for the same price.

    Sometimes, you really do want both. For lights, if someone asked about two lights that clearly complemented each other and were both needed to meet the OP's needs, I would recommend to "buy both."

    However . . . that is not usually the case, and I find myself in general agreement with your take here.
    -Jim Sexton, creator of the M6-R, the TigerLight Upgrades, Fixture-ring lamp potting, the SL60, co-designer of the B90 Upgrade, and proponent of the SF A2, the SF M6 X-LOLA, Titanium, the Haiku, and the LunaSol 20

  4. #4
    Flashaholic* copperfox's Avatar
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    Default Re: "just buy both!" - a flawed mentality

    I wasn't thinking about products besides flashlights when I wrote the post...


  5. #5
    Flashaholic* Nitroz's Avatar
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    Default Re: "just buy both!" - a flawed mentality

    Quote Originally Posted by copperfox View Post
    This post is not meant to be a definitive "end-all" guide to when it's appropriate to suggest "just buy both" and there will be plenty of exceptions I didn't mention. My reason for posting this is simply to start a discussion about the consequences of this often encouraged mentality.
    Obviously you did not earn your flashaholic stripes correctly.

    The buy both mentality is a sickness that slowly creeps in and once it has you it is impossible to escape. Many people say that they're done with flashlights, sell most of their collection only to come back and buy more than they had.

    I am constantly buying and selling to see what I really like and keep the ones I love the most.

    Don't run from the sickness, it will be worse once it catches up to you.

  6. #6
    Flashaholic* Nitroz's Avatar
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    Default Re: "just buy both!" - a flawed mentality

    Quote Originally Posted by copperfox View Post
    I wasn't thinking about products besides flashlights when I wrote the post...
    Ok then, flush my last post.

    It would be nice to be able to apply the buy both to everything. Your looking at cars. A BMW M3 and a Corvette and decide to just buy both and decide which one you want to keep later.

  7. #7
    Flashaholic* EngrPaul's Avatar
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    Default Re: "just buy both!" - a flawed mentality

    Quote Originally Posted by copperfox View Post

    1. It encourages consumerism. That is, purchasing an item that does not fill a need but instead simply because it is affordable. ONE flashlight may fill the need, but two is unnecessary and wasteful.

    What? Try to tell this to W. He sent me a big check and told me to go stimulate the economy.

  8. #8
    Flashaholic*
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    Sigh Re: "just buy both!" - a flawed mentality

    Quote Originally Posted by EngrPaul View Post
    What? Try to tell this to W. He sent me a big check and told me to go stimulate the economy.
    You can thank me and the millions of other taxpayers instead. It wasn't his money that he was giving away so freely.

    I'll send you my flashlight wishlist and shipping address.


    I think the "Buy both" mantra shouldn't be taken literally, I see it as more of a old joke. It is kinda overused but I don't think anyone really takes it seriously.
    Last edited by InTheDark; 09-30-2008 at 10:10 AM.

  9. #9

    Default Re: "just buy both!" - a flawed mentality

    LOL @ you stimulus guys.

    Yes I think in most instances people mean it as a joke. Since it has become the CPF saying. When in doubt, buy both.

  10. #10

    Default Re: "just buy both!" - a flawed mentality

    Quote Originally Posted by IcantC View Post

    Yes I think in most instances people mean it as a joke. Since it has become the CPF saying. When in doubt, buy both.
    Having redundant capability is a good thing. If a CPFer can afford to "buy both," then why not.
    "The World is insane. With tiny spots of sanity, here and there... Not the other way around!" - John Cleese.

  11. #11
    Flashaholic* bullfrog's Avatar
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    Default Re: "just buy both!" - a flawed mentality

    Quote Originally Posted by Monocrom View Post
    If a CPFer can afford to "buy both," then why not.
    +1

    The "buy both" suggestions I received actually helped me when I was starting off with this hobby - I couldn't decide between an L1 or E2DL and did wind up getting both at once (and another L1 as a gift!).

    After the purchase, I realized that these lights are VERY different and each have their own uses - If I just bought one of the two I don't know if I would have ever bought the other out of just not knowing how lights can differ (does that make sense?)...
    ...as for me, when you want a good laugh, you will find me, in a fine state, fat and flourishing, a true hog of Epicurus' herd...
    Running Collection List
    HERE

  12. #12

    Default Re: "just buy both!" - a flawed mentality

    Quote Originally Posted by Monocrom View Post
    Having redundant capability is a good thing. If a CPFer can afford to "buy both," then why not.
    Some of us own over 10 lights and are going broke

  13. #13

    Default Re: "just buy both!" - a flawed mentality

    Quote Originally Posted by IcantC View Post
    Some of us own over 10 lights and are going broke
    I stopped keeping count of how many lights I own.... I think it's better that way.
    "The World is insane. With tiny spots of sanity, here and there... Not the other way around!" - John Cleese.

  14. #14
    Flashaholic* HoopleHead's Avatar
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    Default Re: "just buy both!" - a flawed mentality

    i buy both, then return (or sell off) the one i dont like maybe not a good option for everyone all the time, but i can definitely say that sometimes theres no replacement for being able to compare 2 lights in hand, side by side.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: "just buy both!" - a flawed mentality

    Good points. I think it is as much a reflex as a joke.

    When the respondent explains why you need two lights to fill the stated need or illuminates the differences between two apparently similar choices it can be useful. Some people new to our disease may not realize they need a headlamp and a long running flashlight for their mission. I wouldn't go camping without several lights now.

    For those that actually buy both, the comparisons frequently help those of us with bigger dreams than incomes.

  16. #16
    *Flashaholic* StarHalo's Avatar
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    Default Re: "just buy both!" - a flawed mentality

    I've decided to accept all the arguments and counters in this thread.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: "just buy both!" - a flawed mentality

    Good points Copperfox.

  18. #18
    Flashaholic* Crenshaw's Avatar
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    Default Re: "just buy both!" - a flawed mentality

    i usually use it as a kind of running joke...

    its a commentry on how inescapable this hobby is, and i never just say "buy both" ill offer my opinion on picking ONE first...

    coppperfox is right though, albiet slightly harsh, we shouldnt do it excessively...

    Crenshaw

  19. #19

    Default Re: "just buy both!" - a flawed mentality

    Way back in the early days, the debate might be over ...should I buy a green Photon or a red Photon. Buy both advise...did not seem to extreme.

    But now days the question might be...should I buy a Surefire Invictus or a Wolf Eyes R2 Storm. Buy both...doesn`t work so well with higher priced stuff.

  20. #20
    *Flashaholic* Illum's Avatar
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    Default Re: "just buy both!" - a flawed mentality

    Personally, I would go for buy neither and wait a month or two...but noooo I can't post that here cuz it will anger people...so I keep it to myself

    The way the technology has been changing, opinions dramatically differ every other month. Every year since 2004 there's been much similar threads with nearly identical intents

    Despite the varying thread lengths, you'd notice there are the conservative ones [like me who frequently suggests buying whats now considered outdated lights] and those who are more optimistic that will post names of new lights...then there's the adventurous types who will post buy both

  21. #21
    Flashaholic* RA40's Avatar
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    Default Re: "just buy both!" - a flawed mentality

    I too go with the running joke about buying both at times. With lights becoming more $$ and having overlap, it can be confusing to make a decision. Overall, with all the members who do reviews and comparo's, most the info is available. Sometimes doing a search is all that is needed.
    Mike

  22. #22
    Flashaholic* EngrPaul's Avatar
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    Default Re: "just buy both!" - a flawed mentality

    If my wife showed me two blouses and asked me to decide which one, I would say "just buy both". Sometimes, it's the best answer. Especially if the question infers "which one makes me look slim/fat". Then it's the only answer!

    I could probably buy one shirt and wear it every day. However, I have multiple shirts. This is probably unnecessary and wasteful.

  23. #23

    Default Re: "just buy both!" - a flawed mentality

    I have to agree that nothing can substitute comparing both of whatever it is you are comparing side by side. If you can afford it and want to try both I say go for it. As far as lights, most people on this forum wouldnt mind having both anyways. Besides isnt consumerism the foundation of american society?

  24. #24
    Flashaholic*
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    Default Re: "just buy both!" - a flawed mentality

    Quote Originally Posted by tweeker View Post
    ... Besides isnt consumerism the foundation of american society?
    You're probably right on that. I hope, however, that our society will develop to the point that consumerism is the foundation of our economy, but not the foundation of our society.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: "just buy both!" - a flawed mentality

    When a person really gets that flashlights is a hobby, for pleasure, then it is easier to understand the concept "buy both".

    Bill

  26. #26

    Default Re: "just buy both!" - a flawed mentality

    This is a FREE world. I believe every person has the freedom to spend their own money, in any ways they deem fit and be happy doing it. At the end of the day, each person will have to ultimately make their own decisions.

    Rather than creating a thread asking should I buy Fenix or Mag. I think it may be a better idea to create a thread asking about features of Fenix P1d and a 2nd thread asking about features of Mag 2AA. Then make your decision based on the feedback of both threads.

    Advising people to buy both is a joke.

    My advise is "Buy whatever that you can afford that will make you happy"
    Last edited by firefly99; 10-03-2008 at 01:56 AM.

  27. #27
    Flashaholic* Sub_Umbra's Avatar
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    Default Re: "just buy both!" - a flawed mentality

    While I don't often buy both I also don't think I would totally write it off as a buying strategy. It may make sense:

    • For a collector
    • For someone who has a very pressing need for a light with certain qualities and can't find adequate pre-purchase info or just needs the light for a specific task so quickly that buying them both may be the only way to insure he will be equipped.
    • For someone who has the funds.
    • For someone who will just turn around and sell the one he likes least to someone on CPF.

  28. #28
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    Default Re: "just buy both!" - a flawed mentality

    Different strokes for different folks, that's all I have to say.

  29. #29
    Flashaholic SnWnMe's Avatar
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    Default Re: "just buy both!" - a flawed mentality

    I accpet both sides of this discussion!
    There are two kinds of people in the world. Those with a zombie plan and those who are dinner.

  30. #30
    Flashaholic* TITAN1833's Avatar
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    Default Re: "just buy both!" - a flawed mentality

    All I will add is! if in doubt buy both
    Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes.
    That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have
    their shoes.

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